G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
Jason38
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G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by Jason38 » 09 Sep 2019, 21:53

I'm sure this will make some people happy on this forum. G-Sync added to the next firmware update for the 2019 LG OLED TV's.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/09/g-s ... 3myv40WdWP

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 10 Sep 2019, 00:34

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StuckinPlasma
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by StuckinPlasma » 12 Sep 2019, 12:10

Now if only they could make them watchable for those with motion sensitivities...I tried one in the store the other day and it took less than a minute to get nauseous.

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by Jason38 » 12 Sep 2019, 18:41

StuckinPlasma wrote:Now if only they could make them watchable for those with motion sensitivities...I tried one in the store the other day and it took less than a minute to get nauseous.
They have tons of options so it might not of been set right. Brightness was also probably at max and there is different modes for games and movies and PC. I have crazy issues with LED screens but finally found one that gives me no issues. I think the 2019 LG OLED checks off the most boxes for brain/eye issues.

True Blacks
120HZ Refresh Rate
G-Sync
Fast GTG
Flicker Free
Great For Movies
LG C9 OLED - This model Rtings.com has it at a 9.3 for movies, most LED monitors don't do a good job with movies.

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tygeezy
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by tygeezy » 14 Oct 2019, 11:13

So when do these drivers come out form nvidia? I'm curious to see if it will work with Samsungs freesync tv's that have some HDMI 2.1 features over their HDMI 2.0.

I wouldn't think that LG needs to release firmware since it already supports HDMI 2.1 VRR. It would be up to nvidia to support it over drivers, but I haven't heard anything regarding this since this announcement.

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EeK
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by EeK » 27 Oct 2019, 06:44

Chief Blur Buster wrote:I just posted on the main page.
@Chief Blur Buster, can you please help me out?

I own a C9 and recently installed Nvidia's beta firmware (440.52) that adds support for G-Sync to that line of TVs. Because of that, I've been reading all of your guides on that technology. The "G-Sync 101" has been extremely helpful, but I still have a question.

You mention that you need to "force on" VSync at the driver level (on NVCP) and limit the game's frame rate. You also mention that if the game has an in-game frame rate limiter, you should use that, instead of RTSS, to keep the frame rate within G-Sync's range.

Well, I've been playing The Outer Worlds, and it does have a frame rate limiter, but it doesn't support arbitrary values. So, I set it to 60, playing in 4K on my 2080 Ti. However, the frame times do not remain constant, and, consequently, the graph is not a smooth line.

My TV (LG OLED C9 65") has a native resolution of 4K at 60Hz, but I used CRU to add a custom resolution of 3840x2160 at 66Hz, overriding the display's EDID, which works flawlessly. If I use RTSS to limit the frame rate to 63 (my refresh rate of 66 minus 3, as per your recommendation), the frame time line stays completely flat during gameplay. No wobbliness.

My question is: wouldn't that be a better solution? That is, a flat frame time line (when using RTSS's limiter), instead of a wobbly one (when using the game's in-game limiter)? What do you think?
tygeezy wrote:So when do these drivers come out form nvidia? I'm curious to see if it will work with Samsungs freesync tv's that have some HDMI 2.1 features over their HDMI 2.0.

I wouldn't think that LG needs to release firmware since it already supports HDMI 2.1 VRR. It would be up to nvidia to support it over drivers, but I haven't heard anything regarding this since this announcement.
They're already out... in beta form: 440.52. The latest official driver does not have support for G-Sync on the C9, unfortunately.

And you don't need any special firmware on the TV itself. :)

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by jorimt » 27 Oct 2019, 08:36

EeK wrote:@Chief Blur Buster, can you please help me out?
Hi Eek, I'm the G-SYNC 101 author.
EeK wrote:You also mention that if the game has an in-game frame rate limiter, you should use that, instead of RTSS, to keep the frame rate within G-Sync's range.
This is typically recommended, but it can depend on the game; some in-game limiters have poor framepacing, and/or don't allow granular control (e.g. presets of 144, 120, 60, etc).
EeK wrote:If I use RTSS to limit the frame rate to 63 (my refresh rate of 66 minus 3, as per your recommendation), the frame time line stays completely flat during gameplay. No wobbliness.
If it's a completely flat with RTSS, that means 1, you're framerate is currently being limited by your set RTSS FPS limit, and 2, because of that, RTSS can't read frametime above it's own limiter, so it appears flat. In reality, there is still a frametime variance, but, yes, frametimes with the RTSS limiter are usually steadier than with an in-game limiter, as RTSS limits FPS by targeting a set frametime (whereas most in-game limiters target an average FPS at the engine-level, and let frametimes run free instead).
EeK wrote:My question is: wouldn't that be a better solution? That is, a flat frame time line (when using RTSS's limiter), instead of a wobbly one (when using the game's in-game limiter)? What do you think?
The answer is: try both, and pick whatever feels/looks better to you in the given game. In-game limiters can typically (but not always) have slightly less input lag, but RTSS will almost always have steadier frametime performance.
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by EeK » 27 Oct 2019, 09:04

jorimt wrote:Hi Eek, I'm the G-SYNC 101 author.
Oh, hey! My apologies, I didn't pay attention to the name of the author and just assumed that it had been written by Mark.

Fantastic job on those guides! They're incredibly informative, and I've been sharing them across all forums in which I participate.
jorimt wrote:This is typically recommended, but it can depend on the game; some in-game limiters have poor framepacing, and/or don't allow granular control (e.g. presets of 144, 120, 60, etc).
I see. So, in the case of a game that doesn't allow granular control and only offers presets, it's preferable to use RTSS's framerate limiter?
jorimt wrote:If it's a completely flat with RTSS, that means 1, you're framerate is currently being limited by your set RTSS FPS limit, and 2, because of that, RTSS can't read frametime above it's own limiter, so it appears flat. In reality, there is still a frametime variance, but, yes, frametimes with the RTSS limiter are usually steadier than with an in-game limiter, as RTSS limits FPS by targeting a set frametime (whereas most in-game limiters target an average FPS at the engine-level instead).
Got it. When left uncapped, the game's framerate does stay above my display's refresh rate most of the time, and the frametime line appears flat.

This is what it looks like when using the in-game limiter. Notice how the frametime line has some very small, but frequent peaks and drops.

The framerate stays at 60fps 90% of the time (it was at 61 just when I took the screenshot), but frametimes are not constant.
jorimt wrote:The answer is: try both, and pick whatever feels/looks better to you in the given game. In-game limiters can typically (but not always) have slightly less input lag, but RTSS will almost always have steadier frametime performance.
What would be your recommendation for Unreal Engine 4 titles, like The Outer Worlds?

I honestly can't come to a consensus. At times, I find the in-game limiter to be smoother, despite the constantly changing frametimes. But, some other times, RTSS's solution feels better. Not sure if that's just the placebo effect of seeing a flat line, though.

An expert's advice is always appreciated!

P.S.: Just to make sure: force VSync on at the driver level is still required, right? Same goes for the appropriate G-Sync changes that have to be made individually, using Profile Inspector, in the case of games running in borderless windowed mode (or "fake full screen", like those downloaded from the Microsoft Store - TOW being one of them).

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by jorimt » 27 Oct 2019, 09:31

EeK wrote:What would be your recommendation for Unreal Engine 4 titles, like The Outer Worlds?

I honestly can't come to a consensus. At times, I find the in-game limiter to be smoother, despite the constantly changing frametimes. But, some other times, RTSS's solution feels better. Not sure if that's just the placebo effect of seeing a flat line, though.
While I wish I had a "one-size-fits" all in "all situations" answer, all I can say is try both, and see what you prefer. Hide the graph, and see what differences you can make out between the two.

Ultimately, all these techniques (G-SYNC, FPS limits, etc) are for the user's benefit, they aren't for the graphs. What you're personally seeing and feeling as an individual on a subjective-level (especially in non-competitive games) is really all that counts when you're the one playing the game, as both preference and tolerance levels can obviously vary from person to person.

Some in-game limiters are notably worse than RTSS, even with G-SYNC smoothing things out. It's case-by-case. But in these cases, you'll usually be able to tell if the in-game limiter has more visible stutter over the RTSS limiter by simply trying both.

That said, I've played it myself, and The Outer Worlds can tend to be stuttery right now, regardless of G-SYNC or what FPS limiter you use, so that one is a bit of a toss-up (and, yes, the lack of granular control over the in-game limiter in that game is something to be noted).

What I can say though, is, while I haven't done any hard tests on it, UE4's in-game limiter is typically a good one in my subjective experience.
EeK wrote:P.S.: Just to make sure: force VSync on at the driver level is still required, right? Same goes for the appropriate G-Sync changes that have to be made individually, using Profile Inspector, in the case of games running in borderless windowed mode (or "fake full screen", like those downloaded from the Microsoft Store - TOW being one of them).
Yes, typically, set V-SYNC on at the driver level, off in-game. There are instances where this isn't the case, but it's extremely rare (in fact, the only one I can think of off-the-top-of-my-head where in-game V-SYNC worked better was Hyper Light Drifter, and they may have patched that issue out since).

As for the "fake full screen," it is actually still considered exclusive fullscreen by G-SYNC, so you don't need to switch G-SYNC to borderless/windowed mode for those apps.
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by EeK » 27 Oct 2019, 09:49

Thank you so much for the thorough answer, I really appreciate it!

I'll make sure to just test both types of limiters for each game and see what feels better. As for TOW, you're absolutely right, it can be very stuttery at times, even if GPU and CPU utilization remain low. I'd assume that it's related to data streaming issues, but I have the game installed on an NVMe drive, so it may just be a case of Obsidianitis.
jorimt wrote:Yes, typically, set V-SYNC on at the driver level, off in-game. There are instances where this isn't the case, but it's extremely rare (in fact, the only one I can think of off-the-top-of-my-head where in-game V-SYNC worked better was Hyper Light Drifter, and they may have patched that issue out since).

As for the "fake full screen," it is actually still considered exclusive fullscreen by G-SYNC, so you don't need to switch G-SYNC to borderless/windowed mode for those apps.
Duly noted. And that's good to hear about G-Sync and exclusive fullscreen. Should I revert those changes, since I play all my games in exclusive fullscreen mode (even if it's "fake" fullscreen, like DX12/UWP titles)?

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