G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
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jorimt
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by jorimt » 27 Oct 2019, 10:04

EeK wrote:As for TOW, you're absolutely right, it can be very stuttery at times, even if GPU and CPU utilization remain low. I'd assume that it's related to data streaming issues, but I have the game installed on an NVMe drive, so it may just be a case of Obsidianitis.
My rough guess is that they're currently relying too heavily on (what appears to be frequent) SSD/HDD to DRAM and/or VRAM swapping for texture-streaming, which is causing more frametime spikes than necessary (something G-SYNC and FPS limiters can't do anything about). They probably just need to fine tune how they're managing and caching texture data, or the like.
EeK wrote:Should I revert those changes, since I play all my games in exclusive fullscreen mode (even if it's "fake" fullscreen, like DX12/UWP titles)?
It won't hurt the DX12/UWP games if you don't revert them, but the overrides aren't doing anything right now either, so you might as well. Such overrides will obviously work for games in actual borderless/windowed mode though.
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by EeK » 29 Oct 2019, 22:00

jorimt wrote:My rough guess is that they're currently relying too heavily on (what appears to be frequent) SSD/HDD to DRAM and/or VRAM swapping for texture-streaming, which is causing more frametime spikes than necessary (something G-SYNC and FPS limiters can't do anything about). They probably just need to fine tune how they're managing and caching texture data, or the like.
That makes sense. I hope that the issue is addressed in a future patch. The game is really fun, despite of the stutters!
jorimt wrote:It won't hurt the DX12/UWP games if you don't revert them, but the overrides aren't doing anything right now either, so you might as well. Such overrides will obviously work for games in actual borderless/windowed mode though.
Gotcha!

Forgot to ask you about scaling modes. Ever since watching this Digital Foundry video, I've been using GPU scaling set to aspect ratio, with the "Override the scaling mode set by games and programs" checkbox selected, as per Richard's instructions. That's because I had a 1080 Ti before, and could only run some 4K games at a locked 60 fps in 1800p.

Now that I've updated to the 2080 Ti and have G-Sync, what would be the preferred settings? I know that integer scaling is good for 2D, retro and pixel art titles, but what's the best overall settings for modern games and everyday use?

Edit: One last thing, what about the "Optimize games for variable refresh rate" setting in Windows (under Settings > Display > Graphics Settings)? It's off by default.

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by jorimt » 30 Oct 2019, 08:55

EeK wrote:Forgot to ask you about scaling modes. Ever since watching this Digital Foundry video, I've been using GPU scaling set to aspect ratio, with the "Override the scaling mode set by games and programs" checkbox selected, as per Richard's instructions. That's because I had a 1080 Ti before, and could only run some 4K games at a locked 60 fps in 1800p.

Now that I've updated to the 2080 Ti and have G-Sync, what would be the preferred settings? I know that integer scaling is good for 2D, retro and pixel art titles, but what's the best overall settings for modern games and everyday use?
I don't have much recent experience with this, as while I use to mess with sub-native resolutions (as well as DSR), after the advent of TAA due to the prevalence of deferred-rendered games, as well as switching from a non-VRR 1080p to 1440p G-SYNC monitor a few years back, I've been primarily gaming at native resolution, so I haven't bothered with scaling for a while.

What I can say is GPU scaling is typically the best option. That, and Nvidia did just introduce an optional scaling feature in their new sharpening option, so you may want to experiment with that:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/ne ... dy-driver/
Improve Sharpness In All DirectX Games Via The NVIDIA Control Panel, with Optional Upscaling Feature

Not long ago, we introduced an updated image sharpening filter for NVIDIA Freestyle. Now, we’ve also made this filter a standalone feature built into the NVIDIA Control Panel, enabling you to improve image clarity in all DirectX 9, 10, 11 and 12 games with just a few clicks (Vulkan and OpenGL is coming soon in a future driver).

Like the GeForce Experience Freestyle filter, sharpness can be adjusted on a per-game basis, or you can apply it globally for all supported titles.

In addition, you can use your GPU to render at a lower resolution and scale to your monitor’s native resolution to improve performance. For instance, if you have a 2560x1440 display, but set your game resolution to 1920x1080 because the game is too demanding for your current GPU, we’ll upscale the game’s graphics to 2560x1440 using a high-quality scaler, and then add a dose of sharpening to improve clarity of upscaled images.

Image
Note, on GeForce RTX and GeForce GTX 16-Series Turing architecture GPUs, scaling will leverage Turing’s new 5-tap scaling tech

To use image sharpening on your system, open the NVIDIA Control Panel and navigate to 3D Settings > Manage 3D Settings, select Image Sharpening, configure your options, hit OK, then click Apply on the bottom right of the Control Panel window.

Image

To selectively apply Sharpening and Scaling to specific games and apps on your system, select the Program Settings tab instead, navigate to the .exe in the dropdown, and apply Image Sharpening.

With the options enabled, textures will be clearer and game detail will be sharper, giving you an improved experience with just a few clicks.
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EeK wrote:Edit: One last thing, what about the "Optimize games for variable refresh rate" setting in Windows (under Settings > Display > Graphics Settings)? It's off by default.
I've heard about this setting, but there really isn't any explicit info on it beyond this:
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/micro ... pport.html

Others suggest it's specifically for a handful of UWP games that didn't properly support VRR previously:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/b ... resh_rate/

Either way, I doubt it hurts to have it toggled on if you're already using a VRR-capable display.
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by EeK » 30 Oct 2019, 16:59

jorimt wrote:I don't have much recent experience with this, as while I use to mess with sub-native resolutions (as well as DSR), after the advent of TAA due to the prevalence of deferred-rendered games, as well as switching from a non-VRR 1080p to 1440p G-SYNC monitor a few years back, I've been primarily gaming at native resolution, so I haven't bothered with scaling for a while.

What I can say is GPU scaling is typically the best option. That, and Nvidia did just introduce an optional scaling feature in their new sharpening option, so you may want to experiment with that:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/ne ... dy-driver/
Improve Sharpness In All DirectX Games Via The NVIDIA Control Panel, with Optional Upscaling Feature
Interesting! I had ignored that feature on the new driver because I'm not particularly fond of sharpening filters and had no idea that, within "Image Sharpening", there was also a new form of scaling. Have you had the chance to try it out? Any Sharpen/Ignore film grain settings that you recommend? I know you mentioned that you've been gaming primarily at native resolution, but I'd still like to hear your opinion.

If I understand correctly, that specific "GPU scaling" should only be enabled on a per-game basis, when rendering at sub-native resolutions, and it doesn't replace DLSS. Is that right? As for the general setting in "Adjust desktop size and position", I should still set scaling mode to "Aspect ratio", perform on "GPU" and mark the override checkbox?
jorimt wrote:I've heard about this setting, but there really isn't any explicit info on it beyond this:
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/micro ... pport.html

Others suggest it's specifically for a handful of UWP games that didn't properly support VRR previously:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/b ... resh_rate/

Either way, I doubt it hurts to have it toggled on if you're already using a VRR-capable display.
You're the best! Thank you so much for the answers.

I just remembered something: with G-Sync enabled, I noticed that running Firefox in full screen (not just with the window maximized, actual F11 full screen) causes tearing to appear at the top third part of the display when scrolling, regardless of what's selected for Windows VRR or even "windowed and full screen mode" in "Set up G-Sync" (the Firefox profile can't be changed individually).

Is that normal behavior?

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by jorimt » 30 Oct 2019, 21:35

EeK wrote:Interesting! I had ignored that feature on the new driver because I'm not particularly fond of sharpening filters and had no idea that, within "Image Sharpening", there was also a new form of scaling. Have you had the chance to try it out? Any Sharpen/Ignore film grain settings that you recommend? I know you mentioned that you've been gaming primarily at native resolution, but I'd still like to hear your opinion.
I don't plan on trying it (at least any time soon). I don't even use ReShade anymore. Nothing wrong with using filters, I just lost the interest a few years back, and have grown used to native res and native sharpness/color grading in games. Then again, I calibrate all my (non-HDR) displays to 100 nits, so no doubt I'm in the minority of gamers (and a bit boring :P) in this respect.
EeK wrote:If I understand correctly, that specific "GPU scaling" should only be enabled on a per-game basis, when rendering at sub-native resolutions, and it doesn't replace DLSS. Is that right?

Appears that's the case, yeah.
EeK wrote:As for the general setting in "Adjust desktop size and position", I should still set scaling mode to "Aspect ratio", perform on "GPU" and mark the override checkbox?
If you want it to fill your screen with an upscaled resolution without stretching, and ensure the game doesn't override it, yup.
EeK wrote:You're the best! Thank you so much for the answers.

I just remembered something: with G-Sync enabled, I noticed that running Firefox in full screen (not just with the window maximized, actual F11 full screen) causes tearing to appear at the top third part of the display when scrolling, regardless of what's selected for Windows VRR or even "windowed and full screen mode" in "Set up G-Sync" (the Firefox profile can't be changed individually).

Is that normal behavior?
You're welcome, and, as far as I'm aware, G-SYNC is forced off for Firefox at default. At least, it is on mine from a quick peak at its profile in Nvidia Inspector.
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by EeK » 31 Oct 2019, 02:23

jorimt wrote:I don't plan on trying it (at least any time soon). I don't even use ReShade anymore. Nothing wrong with using filters, I just lost the interest a few years back, and have grown used to native res and native sharpness/color grading in games. Then again, I calibrate all my (non-HDR) displays to 100 nits, so no doubt I'm in the minority of gamers (and a bit boring :P) in this respect.
I guess I'm boring too, because, as I mentioned, I was never a fan of filters, and don't appreciate having my retinas burned by an overly lit display, either. :P

I wish I knew how to properly calibrate my sets. Perhaps in the near future I'll invest in a tool and follow a guide, since my TV has a built-in test pattern generator.
jorimt wrote: Appears that's the case, yeah.

---

If you want it to fill your screen with an upscaled resolution without stretching, and ensure the game doesn't override it, yup.

---

You're welcome, and, as far as I'm aware, G-SYNC is forced off for Firefox at default. At least, it is on mine from a quick peak at its profile in Nvidia Inspector.
Awesome! And yeah, it's not possible to enable G-Sync for Firefox (that's what I meant by having a profile that can't be changed individually). It's just that, prior to the firmware that enabled G-Sync, I never had a problem with tearing outside of games.

By the way, I was thinking about your recommendation to set a FPS limit of 3 below the display's maximum refresh rate. According to Nvidia, my TV's VRR range is 40-120Hz. Of course, due to current GPUs still not supporting HDMI 2.1, 120Hz is only available for resolutions up to 1440p.

However, I was able to add a custom resolution of 3840x2160 with a refresh rate of 66Hz, using CRU (a 10% increase over the previous max of 60Hz). Should I cap the FPS at 63, in 4K, then? Or, because the panel is capable of doing 120Hz, it doesn't really matter when playing in 4K, and I should limit the FPS only when playing in 1440p, to 117 FPS?

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by jorimt » 31 Oct 2019, 08:49

EeK wrote:I wish I knew how to properly calibrate my sets. Perhaps in the near future I'll invest in a tool and follow a guide, since my TV has a built-in test pattern generator.
For SDR on a PC, you can get away with using something like an i1Display Pro and DisplayCal (an entirely free calibration software), which will allow for an initial manual brightness/white point (color temp) adjustment, after which point, it will automatically run through a bunch of color squares to calibrate color and gamma.

It has to then load and use a color profile though, so, while you're brightness/white point settings are applicable to all the display's inputs and attached devices, the color/gamma portion of the calibration will only be retained while using the PC.

That said, nit level, and especially white point, are usually the most impactful changes in a display that already has decent color calibration and gamma response from the factory (which most LG OLEDs do; I have a C7 myself).

As for calibrating for HDR, in most cases, forget it, that's when you need to get serious about investing in some very expensive tools, at which point it's usually just better to consider hiring a calibrator to do it for you.
EeK wrote:By the way, I was thinking about your recommendation to set a FPS limit of 3 below the display's maximum refresh rate.
It's always relative to the current max refresh rate; at 66Hz, you want ~63 FPS, at 120Hz, you want ~117 FPS.
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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by Sprungnickel » 31 Oct 2019, 09:21

Having a GTX 1070 and C9, I can say that NvIdia did indeed lock out 10 series cards. Bummer. GTX 1070 has HDMI 2.0b output, so I don't see why this wouldn't be capable, besides the money issues of investing in non revenue driving products. They clearly are angling this update to make you buy a new card.
Any word on AMD's 2018 news that they will support HDMI VRR? I can't find anything on their updates. the LG C/E/B 9 series all support HDMI VRR and G-sync compatible. How close are we to seeing AMD support HDMI VRR and go full circle on adaptive sync tech.

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by coldroads » 01 Nov 2019, 05:12

Sprungnickel wrote:Having a GTX 1070 and C9, I can say that NvIdia did indeed lock out 10 series cards. Bummer. GTX 1070 has HDMI 2.0b output, so I don't see why this wouldn't be capable, besides the money issues of investing in non revenue driving products. They clearly are angling this update to make you buy a new card.
Any word on AMD's 2018 news that they will support HDMI VRR? I can't find anything on their updates. the LG C/E/B 9 series all support HDMI VRR and G-sync compatible. How close are we to seeing AMD support HDMI VRR and go full circle on adaptive sync tech.
I read over on rtings that AMD apparently has support for ALLM already in their drivers.

As for HDMI-VRR via Phoronix according to one of AMD's linux devs it is in the works, pending passing HDMI Forum testing.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 019-Update

I wonder does G-Sync work on LG's LED TV the SM9000 it shares the exact same hardware as the B9 (HDMI 2.1 with Alpha 7 G2), it's just not an OLED panel, though I've seen more than one person on other forums claim the SM9000 has ghosting with VRR active via Xbox, maybe bad panels or something LG isn't doing right.

Edit:News has come out that LG is going to release a G-Sync firmware update as well, most likely this just makes the TV a certified display I guess, it would be nice if they offered some extra PC resolution/refresh rate options.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?s ... 1572580965

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Re: G-Sync Added To LG OLED

Post by Sprungnickel » 17 Sep 2020, 15:13

With 3080 out and in hands of a few, 2 videos have surfaced of RTX 3080 hooked to LG OLED. Both showed issues with G-sync not enabling. Driver issues. 4K 120 10bit HDR no problem over HDMI but no G-sync.
https://youtu.be/NyQKptfzbLI
https://youtu.be/XJXFe5zW_G0

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