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If I use NULL Ultra should I still cap frames -3 below refresh rate for G-Sync?

I didn't read all 18 pages of this thread (only the first one). So I have to ask if ON or ULTRA is better for low input lag?

Scriba wrote: ↑

20 Mar 2020, 04:14

If I use NULL Ultra should I still cap frames -3 below refresh rate for G-Sync?

I didn't read all 18 pages of this thread (only the first one). So I have to ask if ON or ULTRA is better for low input lag?

Refer to this post:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5903&start=30#p44825

Also, the "Low Latency Mode Settings" section on this page of my article:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/14/

wist7 wrote: ↑

07 Nov 2019, 13:01

Then I will stay on my current settings 141 fps limit in RTSS because in CoD:MW In-Game limiter is broken spikes above the limit. (When I set 138, rtss shows 143). NVCP V-Sync ON, Null on/off (don't matter because of DX12)

Hi,

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare/ Warzone - player here (competive).

For your 144hz config I would suggest you to lock fps with in-game limiter at 125. They didn't fix it yet, unfortunately. And it is possible only to lock fps at 125/166/200/250). But still, 125 fps cap in game is better for lower input lag, than using RTSS with cap at 138 fps.

The CoD MW is very bad optimized game, and in my case I got 240hz monitor which is easier with capping + gives you less tearing and lower input lag.

For competive play you always need as much possible lower input lag as you can, because whoever shot first - he win.

That is why most pro players on twitch.tv if you ask them, they have all g sync etc off + unlocked fps, and they don't care about visibility, it is all about 1vs1 fights and who kills someone faster thanks to the lowest input lag + high Hz which provide you fastest response time + clear enemy move.

What I have found is that, if you set your all settings in game at low and off your GPU can't go 99%, or maybe that works only in my case with 1080ti Aorus + 8700k.

I have tested two cap versions in CoD Warzone (Battle royal = huge maps, biggest gpu load)
1) Cap at 250 with in-game limiter (can't cap as you know at exactly 230 - but with g-sync + v-sync at off it doesnt matter anyway)
My gpu load is still max 97%, I have highest VRR, lowest input lag, but only downside is unstable framerate, because at modes like this Warzone/Battleroyals, it is hard to have stable fps.
That is why If you want some hybrid mode, which in this case it quite nice you can do:
2) Cap your fps at AVG fps (like 166 in my case) to have more stable framerite, not that low input lag, but its still low anyway.
What is weird is that I still have max 97% gpu load like with uncapped fps (1)
I will not tell you which is best, most pro players use highest fps anyway which sounds best but in my opinion not in modes like Warzone, when they do not have 200+ fps all time, its always between 120/140 fps to up 250~. If you could have stable 200 +fps I wouldn't think about lowering fps bellow, but in Warzone the best is cap at your avg fps imo.

For any other modes like Deatchmath (slower maps) you can use
3) uncap fps or cap it at 200, if you worry about frametime (you still have less drops like in warzone)

NULL at ON, g-sync + v-sync off (only for lowest input lag), but not a lot of ppl know g-sync on with v-sync off doesnt add any input lag if you cap bellow Hz, even g-sync + vsync (both ON) gives you only a little bit input lag, like 1-2ms if I remember correctly. But you know, this few ms can sometimes help, that is why pro's dont ever use it imo. But they should cap their fps at least imo, esspecialy in Warzone where you cant have stable 200+ fps for 240hz, or 120+ for 144hz, it is always dropping.

Hi guys,

I play MW warzone too, does low latency mode work with directx 12?
If i right understand, best way for lowest input lag is to use LLM "on" with cap fps below refresh rate?
So for 60hz, i should use LLM on and cap my fps at 59? or 61? im a bit confused.

bapt337 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 06:43

I play MW warzone too, does low latency mode work with directx 12?
If i right understand, best way for lowest input lag is to use LLM "on" with cap fps below refresh rate?
So for 60hz, i should use LLM on and cap my fps at 59? or 61? im a bit confused.

LLM settings have no effect in Direct X 12 or Vulkan games, as those engines manage the pre-rendered frames queue themselves.

For the lowest possible input lag in your situation, and to prevent the pre-rendered frames queue from kicking in (LLM only reduces said queue by the way, while an FPS limiter typically eliminates it when properly set), you want to cap your FPS at a number your system can sustain 99% of the time that also doesn't max out your GPU usage.

If you're using V-SYNC, following the above, but also ensure the FPS limit is within the refresh rate to prevent V-SYNC input lag. However, if you're using standalone V-SYNC off, then you can set the FPS limit above or within the refresh rate, so long as said limit is preventing maxed GPU usage.

jorimt wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 09:52

bapt337 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 06:43

I play MW warzone too, does low latency mode work with directx 12?
If i right understand, best way for lowest input lag is to use LLM "on" with cap fps below refresh rate?
So for 60hz, i should use LLM on and cap my fps at 59? or 61? im a bit confused.

LLM settings have no effect in Direct X 12 or Vulkan games, as those engines manage the pre-rendered frames queue themselves.

For the lowest possible input lag in your situation, and to prevent the pre-rendered frames queue from kicking in (LLM only reduces said queue by the way, while an FPS limiter typically eliminates it when properly set), you want to cap your FPS at a number your system can sustain 99% of the time that also doesn't max out your GPU usage.

If you're using V-SYNC, following the above, but also ensure the FPS limit is within the refresh rate to prevent V-SYNC input lag. However, if you're using standalone V-SYNC off, then you can set the FPS limit above or within the refresh rate, so long as said limit is preventing maxed GPU usage.

All right thanks for this, ive got 1080ti and the best for warzone is the scnaline sync IMO, the input lag is just like v sync off.
Ive tried the vsync low lag method, cap 0.01 below refresh rate with RTSS and nvcpanel vsync on, but the result was far from scanline sync...
even if sometimes i see tearing when gpu go up to 70%, and dont use 20-30% of my gpu, that's the price for input lag.
could also try scanline + fast sync but each time ive tried fast sync it result in stutter ...

If you're using Scanline Sync, you should be fine as is. LLM settings, when supported, even at their best, don't do as much for input lag as many think anyway, and really only apply best in GPU-limited situations at lower refresh rates.

jorimt wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 10:27

If you're using Scanline Sync, you should be fine as is. LLM settings, when supported, even at their best, don't do as much for input lag as many think anyway, and really only apply best in GPU-limited situations at lower refresh rates.

i agree, ive just tested right now in Battlefiled V, v-sync-on, LLM to ultra, no fps cap, no ingame vsync.
The input lag is pretty decent, but sometimes it feel like there is an additional input lag in some situation.
I think its about the frame delay you talk about and gpu usage.
But still nothing compare to scanline. Even if its sad to dont use 30% of the gpu but for competitive games input lag is priority n°1.

bapt337 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 10:42

i agree, ive just tested right now in Battlefiled V, v-sync-on, LLM to ultra, no fps cap, no ingame vsync.
The input lag is pretty decent, but sometimes it feel like there is an additional input lag in some situation.
I think its about the frame delay you talk about and gpu usage.

Input lag is accumulative, and has many different causes. E.g. V-SYNC input lag and GPU (aka pre-rendered frames queue) input lag can stack.

All LLM Ultra does when paired with standalone V-SYNC (or with synced or non-syned method for that matter) is reduce the pre-rendered frames queue (in supported games) by up to 1 frame (of input lag; 1 frame @60Hz = 16.6ms), and only in situations where the framerate is uncapped and GPU usage is at 99%>.

LLM also does nothing to directly prevent or reduce V-SYNC input lag; only a framerate limit below the refresh rate will accomplish that.

jorimt wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 10:57

bapt337 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020, 10:42

i agree, ive just tested right now in Battlefiled V, v-sync-on, LLM to ultra, no fps cap, no ingame vsync.
The input lag is pretty decent, but sometimes it feel like there is an additional input lag in some situation.
I think its about the frame delay you talk about and gpu usage.

Input lag is accumulative, and has many different causes. E.g. V-SYNC input lag and GPU (aka pre-rendered frames queue) input lag can stack.

All LLM Ultra does when paired with standalone V-SYNC is reduce the pre-rendered frames queue (in supported games) by up to 1 frame (of input lag; 1 frame @60Hz = 16.6ms), and only in situations where the framerate is uncapped and GPU usage is at 99%>.

LLM also does nothing to directly prevent or reduce V-SYNC input lag; only a framerate limit below the refresh rate will accomplish that.

So you mean LLM ultra reduce pre-rendered frame to 1 but also LLM does nothing to directly prevent or reduce vsync input lag,
in this case i dont get the point to use LLM if it didnt reduce input lag.., if i understand right, the lag is one frame so 16.6ms cause only one frame is pre-rendered, and i still need cap fps below refresh rate to get even more better input lag?
its like a 0 pre-rendered frame?
How much should i cap fps for 60hz with LLM ultra then?

Thanks for help

EDIT: also ive notice curious behavior with vulkan engine in RDR2, i use adaptive sync from nvidia control panel, vsync in game disable, no fps limit in game.
If i dont use any cap, only adaptive sync, frametime fluctuate between 15ms and 17ms.
If i use 61 fps cap from RTSS (for 60hz) + adaptive sync,the frametime is just flat 16.6ms.
Is this because RTSS have good frame pacing or maybe directly related with vulkan engine? maybe it doesnt like too much frame?