Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
forii
Posts: 153
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by forii » 29 Jan 2020, 18:45

Hello everyone,

For the past 3 days Im kind of confused, I read almost all topics, threads about nvidia configuration (g sync, input lag etc) and I still don't know correct answer.

I am a paranoiac person, so don't take me wrong, I am really serious about this what I am writing, and I do really want best trully configuration for fastest response time and lower input lag.

I hope someone can simply answer it to me. I will try to make it also as simply as I can, lets start:

1) If I do have game that I quite can not get stable FPS(because of 1440p, fps avg 135~) around 155hz, but its still competive, multiplayer game (I play COD MW 2019), then
a) Should I use Adaptive Sync (G Sync Compatible)?
if yes, then:
- should I use also V sync ON? - Im asking because I heard G-Sync alone, doesnt add any input lags and it helps with tearing, don't know about g sync + v-sync in NVCP combo - does it adds some input lag? If so, I don't want that obviously.
b) If using G sync with V-sync or without V-sync (need answer whats best) then:
- should I use NULL (Nvidia Ultra Low Latency)? If so, which mode will be best - I heard turned ON is safest than Ultra - dunno why, and If something changed about that with the latest nvidia drivers.
c) or maybe I should'nt use any G-sync, v sync if I want the lowest input lag and fastest anything, if so, then:
- Should I use the NULL feature anyway? And which option?
d) Should I always cap my fps bellow Hz rate using G sync with V-sync or only G -Sync? If so, then:
- Should I always cap fps only 4 fps bellow Hz? So in my case 155hz - 4 = 151 fps cap?
-im asking because in the game i am not having stable fps due to a lot of objects in the screen, so I do have quite often the drops bellow even 130 fps, thats is why I am wondering If i should cap the fps around the AVG fps, for example on 130 fps - but then also the question in my head is asking, if that will add some input lag or give me some disadvantage.

2) If I would back to 1080p, (got new monitor - info bellow) and I would have stable 144 + fps, around 200~fps, with drops to 140 only, then:
- should I worry about G- sync with/without V-sync combo?
- I mean if g sync is only good If we have for example 1440p and drops bellow Hz rate?

Hint: I dont care much about tearing tho, I care only about speed, I want to always kill the enemy before he can kill me.
I also care about lag screen, I mean if I cap my fps at 100 my eyes are burning, I think im to used to 144hz, and after now I got 155hz (ofc its not much difference but in tests its fastest response time (5.1ms))

But I am also curious about optimal settings, so:
1) The best, fastest, slow input lag configuration. -?
2) Not so low, but stable with nice screen view, and no tearing configuration. -?
3) Best no tearing configuration, with high input lag - only asking If i would want to play some single games, and do not care about speed. -?

If it comes to my setup:
I got 1440p 144hz monitor (Asus TUF Gaming VG27AQ), I had before 1080p TN, but I always dream to have IPS panel, which is obv slower a bit, but I believe that this few ms will not change a lot compare to better visibility (colors) + 1440p resolution. This is combined with 1080ti Aorus (Overlocked) + 8700k (4,9Ghz). Doesnt have any problem with FPS on 1080p, so now im trying to make the best possible setup.


Welcome to my world,
Regards,
forii. :)

1000WATT
Posts: 279
Joined: 22 Jul 2018, 05:44

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by 1000WATT » 01 Feb 2020, 01:13

forii wrote: Hello everyone,

For the past 3 days Im kind of confused, I read almost all topics, threads about nvidia configuration (g sync, input lag etc) and I still don't know correct answer.
There are many examples of comparisons. https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/14/
forii wrote: I am a paranoiac person, so don't take me wrong, I am really serious about this what I am writing, and I do really want best trully configuration for fastest response time and lower input lag.
If you cannot maintain a stable FPS, no one will give you exact answers, since depending on the game and the components of the computer, either the video card or the processor may be the bottleneck, therefore, there will be different delays for everyone.

Reduce settings, overclock components, limit FPS, do anything to get stable FPS.
article G-SYNC 101, subject to conditions, is universal. Tests took more than several month from the author. Find a day, study it carefully.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

forii
Posts: 153
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by forii » 01 Feb 2020, 06:28

1000WATT wrote:
01 Feb 2020, 01:13
forii wrote: Hello everyone,

For the past 3 days Im kind of confused, I read almost all topics, threads about nvidia configuration (g sync, input lag etc) and I still don't know correct answer.
There are many examples of comparisons. https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/14/
Yes and I have seen that, but there is no information about for example: all v-sync OFF + NULL at Ultra compare to Null only [ON]

Actually because of unstable FPS due to this cod mw I just back to 1080p and gameplay is much better.

I got stable fps all time because of the 1080p resolution and all low settings, GPU is not even 70-75%.

So maybe in 1080p case you can help me, so If i get the stable FPS I do not need g sync with or without v-sync, right?

If i want lowest input lag I just can use only NULL at ultra?

Im asking becase this is what I just found:
Image

And why he prefers to do not use NULL if we want lowest input lag as possible?

If it comes to gpu max at 90% I cap my fps above Hz actually, because I heard = more stable fps = lowest input rate, so actually at 1080p/144hz I capped my fps at 165 fps in NVCP (I heard NVCP gives bettter stable framerate compare to RTSS).

So they are my tl;dr questions:
-at 1080p with stable fps even above 144hz with zero drops should I use any form of g sync/v-sync?
-what about NULL if it comes to fps higher than Hz of monitor?
-and also... what about capping fps not bellow Hz of monitor, if we do not use any form of g sync?

Thanks for answers :)

ELK
Posts: 95
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by ELK » 01 Feb 2020, 13:04

I just wrote a massive response explaining everything in detail but it had me log in again so it deleted everything I wrote. Extremely frustrating. I am going to tell you what the best options are.

Use ultra-low latency, gsync, vsync enabled in nvidia control panel, vsync disabled in-game, in-game fps limit set atleast 4 below refresh. Lower your graphics until your gpu isn't pegging (maybe keep it at 95% max or something, I forgot the ideal %).

If you're playing a solo game that you don't care about input lag than:
Use ultra-low latency unless you're not happy with your minimum fps then use, gsync, vsync enabled in nvidia control panel, vsync disabled in-game, in-game fps limit set atleast 4 below refresh. Maximum graphics.

All of these are very important. If you want to know why they reduce input lag or how they work I will answer it. Also I have NEVER had an issue with ultra-low latency and I do not know why there would ever be one other than the expected decrease in minimum fps.



I also want to bring up something we should have in the future. If you can get stable minimum 200fps(4.0ms frametime) on your 155hz(~6.6ms) screen running 151hz(~6.5ms) have the gpu idle for 2.6ms then draw for 4.0ms resulting in 2.6ms reduction in the rendering chain of input lag.

ELK
Posts: 95
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by ELK » 01 Feb 2020, 13:30

If you really want to be super competitive I do know one trick that might decrease input lag. I have never seen it tested so I cannot confirm, but your gpu will be able to get 5% more fps. A competitive overclocker discovered this trick and had his gpu 5% higher than everybody else's and it blew everyone's mind. Personally it felt like it decreased input lag, and many others think so too, but it hasn't been tested. Maybe somebody with some equipment could test it.

CREATE A SYSTEM RESTORE POINT
BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY
BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS
DO NOT CHANGE ANY OTHER OPTION OTHER THAN THE GPU
ESPECIALLY DO NOT CHANGE YOUR BOOT OS DRIVE (it will never work)
If you change any other option other than gpu you may not be able to boot into windows. You could POSSIBLY boot using safe mode, or on another copy of windows, or maybe you'll just brick your pc SO DON'T CHANGE ANY OPTION OTHER THAN GPU NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.
Please it's not worth the risk.

When a device wants to communicate with your CPU it has two options to let the cpu know. IRQ (interrupt request channel) or MSI (message signal interrupt, this has nothing to do with the company named MSI).
IRQ works but by telling a core, hello I want to communicate, then the next time that core does something your cpu knows.
MSI works by saying hello I want to communicate by writing to a very small (maybe up to 2kb) reserved section of ram that the cpu is monitoring, the next time ANY core does something your cpu knows.

It's pretty much superior in every way to IRQ and not to mention sometimes your video is on the same IRQ as some or all of your USB root hubs which messes with mouse performance badly. BUT NOT EVERYTHING SUPPORTS MSI SO DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING EXCEPT GPU.

It's possible to do this just by editing the registry but there is a handy little program called MSI UTIL v2.
here is more information
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windo ... ol.378044/

Nvidia uses IRQ even though it supports MSI because it isn't compatible with virtual machines. If you use virtual machines do not switch to MSI or your card won't work with them.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT CREATING A SYSTEM RESTORE POINT AND BACKING UP YOUR REGISTRY AND ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CHANGE YOUR BOOT OPERATING SYSTEM HARD DRIVE. IT WILL NEVER WORK AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BOOT.

ELK
Posts: 95
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by ELK » 01 Feb 2020, 14:00

-at 1080p with stable fps even above 144hz with zero drops should I use any form of g sync/v-sync?
-what about NULL if it comes to fps higher than Hz of monitor?
-and also... what about capping fps not bellow Hz of monitor, if we do not use any form of g sync?

What is this NULL you're talking about?

-Yes, for consistency, but with an in-game fps limit.
It comes down to what you see and how you react. For the most consistency you wouldn't want tearing. higher fps than your refresh rate does mean lower input lag below every tear line. Your monitor doesn't draw an entire picture 155 times a second it does a few rows of pixels at a time. There are some older monitors that actually used a buffer and waited until it got the entire frame from the gpu then displayed it but that's it's laggy as you'd imagine.

When gsync reaches your refresh rate it switches to vsync. Vsync adds tons of input lag, gsync adds none just like having vsync disabled. You should set your fps to 4 below your refresh rate because SOME games that were tested with an fps 1 below the refresh rate were still reaching an fps of the refresh rate causing vsync and it's input lag to occur. Engine based (in-game) fps limiters almost always add no input lag, but sometimes they are pretty bad causing stuttering. cpu based fps limiters 1 frame of input lag, for exmaple RTSS, which has extremely good frame pacing and could be used in cases where in-game fps limiters are really bad. We could be talking 20->40ms in input lag though. Driver level fps limiters add 2 or more frames of input lag.

-What is NULL?

-As suggested keep your gpu below 90%. Nvidia has even confirmed that the big increase in input lag we see when our gpu is at or near maximum load is expected. You can set your fps limit higher but keep your load below 90%.



edit: It seems like NULL may be referring to the low-latency setting in the Nnvidia control panel. I guess I'll explain this one.

This setting used to be called pre-rendered frames. The default was 3 (now called off) and everyone used to set it to 1 (now called on). Many games set it to 1 you can't tell because it's programmed in, but because not every game was we set it to 1 to make sure. With a setting of 3 your cpu would render 3 frames and have that data waiting for the gpu to draw. With a setting of 1 your cpu would render 1 frames and have that data waiting for the gpu to draw. With the new setting of ultra your cpu waits until your gpu wants to draw a frame and renders it then. This gives the lowest input lag. The drawback is decreased minimum fps. Thank AMD for the technology. Nvidia quickly added it to compete.

so that leaves me.... What's null? lmao

edit2: To better explain when it is set to 3(off) if you have a frame that was taking your cpu really long your minimum fps wouldn't drop as much because it still has the data to draw 2 more frames. When it's 1 as soon as the cpu data was sent to the gpu it would start rendering the next frame. When it's Ultra the cpu sends the gpu, but has to wait until the gpu wants to draw it's next frame before it starts rendering.

forii
Posts: 153
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by forii » 01 Feb 2020, 16:36

ELK wrote:
01 Feb 2020, 13:30
If you really want to be super competitive I do know one trick that might decrease input lag. I have never seen it tested so I cannot confirm, but your gpu will be able to get 5% more fps. A competitive overclocker discovered this trick and had his gpu 5% higher than everybody else's and it blew everyone's mind. Personally it felt like it decreased input lag, and many others think so too, but it hasn't been tested. Maybe somebody with some equipment could test it.

CREATE A SYSTEM RESTORE POINT
BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY
BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS
DO NOT CHANGE ANY OTHER OPTION OTHER THAN THE GPU
ESPECIALLY DO NOT CHANGE YOUR BOOT OS DRIVE (it will never work)
If you change any other option other than gpu you may not be able to boot into windows. You could POSSIBLY boot using safe mode, or on another copy of windows, or maybe you'll just brick your pc SO DON'T CHANGE ANY OPTION OTHER THAN GPU NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.
Please it's not worth the risk.

When a device wants to communicate with your CPU it has two options to let the cpu know. IRQ (interrupt request channel) or MSI (message signal interrupt, this has nothing to do with the company named MSI).
IRQ works but by telling a core, hello I want to communicate, then the next time that core does something your cpu knows.
MSI works by saying hello I want to communicate by writing to a very small (maybe up to 2kb) reserved section of ram that the cpu is monitoring, the next time ANY core does something your cpu knows.

It's pretty much superior in every way to IRQ and not to mention sometimes your video is on the same IRQ as some or all of your USB root hubs which messes with mouse performance badly. BUT NOT EVERYTHING SUPPORTS MSI SO DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING EXCEPT GPU.

It's possible to do this just by editing the registry but there is a handy little program called MSI UTIL v2.
here is more information
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windo ... ol.378044/

Nvidia uses IRQ even though it supports MSI because it isn't compatible with virtual machines. If you use virtual machines do not switch to MSI or your card won't work with them.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT CREATING A SYSTEM RESTORE POINT AND BACKING UP YOUR REGISTRY AND ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CHANGE YOUR BOOT OPERATING SYSTEM HARD DRIVE. IT WILL NEVER WORK AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BOOT.
Let's start with this, because you made me curious about that.

First - what is a program/app which I can meassure my input lag/latency(?) and then I will be able to compare with the MSI option changed on my gpu. So I will be sure that will give me some positives, instead of negatives.

Second - are you sure that I should not change the option with my Nvidia SOUND over there? (High Definition Audio Driver)? It is also conneced with gpu. Hmm?

This is what I have for now, didnt change anything yet, it was as it was, originally:
Image

____________________________________________________________________
NULL - Nvidia Ultra Low Latency (option in NVIDIA Panel)

And to be clear FPS Limiter in game (COD MW) doesnt work properly, so we need to stick with the FPS Limiter in NVCP. Because I can limit my fps to around 130 fps only, it couldnt be set properly on equal FPS

Going further -> G Sync/Vsync vs NO SYNC (144hz):

...You said I should use g sync with v-sync even on 1080p when I can have all the time stable 144 fps, even 150???

Are you really sure that doesnt using any g sync or v sync with NULL at ultra and 150 fps (above 144hz) will be worse (higher input lag) than using 140 fps cap in NVCP with g sync + v sync and NULL at ultra? why is that? As i know everyone always says that v sync gives input lag, same with g sync, but now I understand that v sync will not be even turned on because of the cap fps, right?? Thats interesting tho, but actually why we turn it on with g sync if v-sync enabling itselfs above 144fps and we cap them at 140? That is what I also don't understand.

So even If I do play quake 3 where I can get 280 fps all time - I still should use g sync compatible (fast sync (on) in my 1080p monitor) + v sync + Null and Cap 4 fps bellow Hz of monitor?

You want to tell me I will have lower input lag using that + no tearing? Only cons? Cant believe that but ok :O

ELK
Posts: 95
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by ELK » 01 Feb 2020, 17:44

People wire an led into their mouse and use expensive high speed cameras to see how low a change occurs on screen.

I DID NOT CHANGE ANY AUDIO DRIVERS TO MSI. I tested my nvidia audio and it works. The card is made to support MSI, anything that isn't won't function at all.

Use RTSS as an fps limiter because NVCP is a driver level fps limit that will give you more fps lag than a cpu level limiter like RTSS. It's unfortunate the in-game limiter isn't a good option as they usually have the lowest input lag.

The difference between 144 and 140 is about 0.2ms. You could use RTSS fps limiter and get the extra 0.2ms without tearing if your fps wasn't 144 stable.

I am wrong. Vsync off is slightly better, by 1-3ms according to that page.
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ettings/9/
"So, for competitive players, V-SYNC OFF still reigns supreme in the input lag realm, especially if sustained framerates can exceed the refresh rate by 5x or more. However, while at higher refresh rates, visible tearing artifacts are all but eliminated at these ratios, it can instead manifest as microstutter, and thus, even at its best, V-SYNC OFF still can’t match the consistency of G-SYNC frame delivery."

Consistency is very important when it comes to aim. The current best option in my opinion would be RTSS's SSYNC so that you have no tearing without the input lag of vsync, but you will have the input lag of a cpu level fps limiter. It's the best option because the in-game fps limiter doesn't work. If it did work the best option would be to set it to 140 or even 120 and use gsync + vsync NVCP, in-game vsync disabled. The difference between 140 and 144 is only about 0.2ms.

I only recommend using fast sync if you're using RTSS's SSYNCx2 because a game's fps limiter isn't working or isn't good, but this requires you to have a stable FPS twice that of your refresh rate. which would be 288 stable on your 144hz screen.

You will have the lowest input lag with vsync/gsync disabled by a hair, but how it effects your aim isn't worth it.

edit: cpu based fps limiters add 1 frame of input lag so you're looking at ~7ms extra input lag for the perfect consistency.
Last edited by ELK on 01 Feb 2020, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

ELK
Posts: 95
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by ELK » 01 Feb 2020, 17:56

I did not change high definition audio drivers to MSI. Only the video card. 1080ti in your case.

ELK
Posts: 95
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: Most competive configuration for FPS Games (155hz)

Post by ELK » 01 Feb 2020, 18:01

I think chief may have the equipment to test input lag one of us could ask him. I might be away from the computer for some hours. BRB lol

edit: and if he doesn't have the equipment I'm sure he has people to ask lol.

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