244hz question

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
Aesir
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Re: 244hz question

Post by Aesir » 17 Aug 2020, 10:39

Yeah, you meant that. Ok, I enabled gsync in monitor, enabled vsync in nvidia control panel, and disabled vsync ingame. Frames are limted ingame by the origin command +fps_max 144. I will try this way. From what I understanded, there shouldnt be more input lag as If I play with gsync off and I should get less tearing artifacts

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jorimt
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Re: 244hz question

Post by jorimt » 17 Aug 2020, 10:40

Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:28
Im sorry, when you say NVCP you mean vsync on in the nvidia panel?
Yes, and FYI, the V-SYNC option is actually part of G-SYNC functionality within the refresh rate.
Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:39
From what I understanded, there shouldnt be more input lag as If I play with gsync off and I should get less tearing artifacts
With the recommended G-SYNC + V-SYNC configuration, you won't get tearing at all.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Aesir
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Re: 244hz question

Post by Aesir » 17 Aug 2020, 10:56

jorimt wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:40
Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:28
Im sorry, when you say NVCP you mean vsync on in the nvidia panel?
Yes, and FYI, the V-SYNC option is actually part of G-SYNC functionality within the refresh rate.
Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:39
From what I understanded, there shouldnt be more input lag as If I play with gsync off and I should get less tearing artifacts
With the recommended G-SYNC + V-SYNC configuration, you won't get tearing at all.
What happens if I dont enable vsync (vsync disabled ingame also) in nvidia control panel but I do enable gsync and fps caped to 144? Would it still work on the tearing artifacts? I ask because I tried both with vsync nvcp on and off, and I felt my aim a little strange with it on. Thank you very much for your answers

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jorimt
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Re: 244hz question

Post by jorimt » 17 Aug 2020, 11:08

Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:56
What happens if I dont enable vsync (vsync disabled ingame also) in nvidia control panel but I do enable gsync and fps caped to 144? Would it still work on the tearing artifacts? I ask because I tried both with vsync nvcp on and off, and I felt my aim a little strange with it on. Thank you very much for your answers
With G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off, tearing is still possible. With G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on, tearing isn't possible. That's the only difference in that range.

For a more in-depth explanation, as seen in the #2 entry of my "Closing FAQ":
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/15/
Wait, why should I enable V-SYNC with G-SYNC again? And why am I still seeing tearing with G-SYNC enabled and V-SYNC disabled? Isn’t G-SYNC suppose to fix that?

The answer is frametime variances.

“Frametime” denotes how long a single frame takes to render. “Framerate” is the totaled average of each frame’s render time within a one second period.

At 144Hz, a single frame takes 6.9ms to display (the number of which depends on the max refresh rate of the display, see here), so if the framerate is 144 per second, then the average frametime of 144 FPS is 6.9ms per frame.

In reality, however, frametime from frame to frame varies, so just because an average framerate of 144 per second has an average frametime of 6.9ms per frame, doesn’t mean all 144 of those frames in each second amount to an exact 6.9ms per; one frame could render in 10ms, the next could render in 6ms, but at the end of each second, enough will hit the 6.9ms render target to average 144 FPS per.

So what happens when just one of those 144 frames renders in, say, 6.8ms (146 FPS average) instead of 6.9ms (144 FPS average) at 144Hz? The affected frame becomes ready too early, and begins to scan itself into the current “scanout” cycle (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen) before the previous frame has a chance to fully display (a.k.a. tearing).

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” allows these instances to occur, even within the G-SYNC range, whereas G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” (what I call “frametime compensation” in this article) allows the module (with average framerates within the G-SYNC range) to time delivery of the affected frames to the start of the next scanout cycle, which lets the previous frame finish in the existing cycle, and thus prevents tearing in all instances.

And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Aesir
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Re: 244hz question

Post by Aesir » 17 Aug 2020, 11:13

jorimt wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 11:08
Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 10:56
What happens if I dont enable vsync (vsync disabled ingame also) in nvidia control panel but I do enable gsync and fps caped to 144? Would it still work on the tearing artifacts? I ask because I tried both with vsync nvcp on and off, and I felt my aim a little strange with it on. Thank you very much for your answers
With G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off, tearing is still possible. With G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on, tearing isn't possible. That's the only difference in that range.

For a more in-depth explanation, as seen in the #2 entry of my "Closing FAQ":
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/15/
Wait, why should I enable V-SYNC with G-SYNC again? And why am I still seeing tearing with G-SYNC enabled and V-SYNC disabled? Isn’t G-SYNC suppose to fix that?

The answer is frametime variances.

“Frametime” denotes how long a single frame takes to render. “Framerate” is the totaled average of each frame’s render time within a one second period.

At 144Hz, a single frame takes 6.9ms to display (the number of which depends on the max refresh rate of the display, see here), so if the framerate is 144 per second, then the average frametime of 144 FPS is 6.9ms per frame.

In reality, however, frametime from frame to frame varies, so just because an average framerate of 144 per second has an average frametime of 6.9ms per frame, doesn’t mean all 144 of those frames in each second amount to an exact 6.9ms per; one frame could render in 10ms, the next could render in 6ms, but at the end of each second, enough will hit the 6.9ms render target to average 144 FPS per.

So what happens when just one of those 144 frames renders in, say, 6.8ms (146 FPS average) instead of 6.9ms (144 FPS average) at 144Hz? The affected frame becomes ready too early, and begins to scan itself into the current “scanout” cycle (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen) before the previous frame has a chance to fully display (a.k.a. tearing).

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” allows these instances to occur, even within the G-SYNC range, whereas G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” (what I call “frametime compensation” in this article) allows the module (with average framerates within the G-SYNC range) to time delivery of the affected frames to the start of the next scanout cycle, which lets the previous frame finish in the existing cycle, and thus prevents tearing in all instances.

And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.
Thank you very much. Vsync on in nvidia panel could cause something to my aim? or is that only my imagination?

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jorimt
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Re: 244hz question

Post by jorimt » 17 Aug 2020, 14:49

Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 11:13
Thank you very much. Vsync on in nvidia panel could cause something to my aim? or is that only my imagination?
I repeat from my FAQ:
And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Aesir
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Re: 244hz question

Post by Aesir » 17 Aug 2020, 21:08

Thanks for all your answers Jorimt

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jorimt
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Re: 244hz question

Post by jorimt » 17 Aug 2020, 21:53

Aesir wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 21:08
Thanks for all your answers Jorimt
No worries.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Siye
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Re: 244hz question

Post by Siye » 01 Sep 2020, 12:24

G-SYNC can add alot of imput lag and i feel it... If its a NATIVE G-SYNC display then maybe its minimum but most people dont have that... Is the trade of worth it for competative, no not really. Many pro's have tried it and hate how slow it feels. If your some old dude you may not even notice it. Im talking it FEELS alot faster, thats even keeping the 237 cap and turning G-SYNC on and off. HUGE difference, moving the mouse feels quicker i have to lower my sens.

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jorimt
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Re: 244hz question

Post by jorimt » 01 Sep 2020, 13:45

Siye wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 12:24
G-SYNC can add alot of imput lag and i feel it... If its a NATIVE G-SYNC display then maybe its minimum but most people dont have that... Is the trade of worth it for competative, no not really. Many pro's have tried it and hate how slow it feels. If your some old dude you may not even notice it. Im talking it FEELS alot faster, thats even keeping the 237 cap and turning G-SYNC on and off. HUGE difference, moving the mouse feels quicker i have to lower my sens.
Barring any monitor model-specific quirks that haven't been documented (and/or a very poorly optimized configuration or game), officially certified G-SYNC Compatible displays have been tested as well with the same base result. G-SYNC does not "add" input lag over no sync with framerates within the refresh rate. Again, as I've stated, instead, no sync reduces input lag further than otherwise possible as a result of tearing.

I'm not advocating one over the other. In fact, I always suggest that if someone is on the fence, that they try both and pick the one they prefer the feel of. G-SYNC is an option, primarily one for those that can't tolerate tearing artifacts or the uneven frame pacing typically exacerbated by no sync.

I'm merely stating the fact that where average, raw input lag is concerned, there's little measurable difference between the two at 240Hz when G-SYNC is properly configured. That does not mean there isn't a distributional difference of input lag or a difference in overall "feel," which (beyond any psychological factors caused by knowing exactly when you have G-SYNC on or off), is probably what you'd be experiencing, especially in scenarios with framerates within the refresh rate.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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