G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
Sick_of_Blur
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G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Sick_of_Blur » 20 Oct 2020, 22:45

As my username implies, I am a gamer with a long history with motion blur. I am also sick of blur. Very, very sick of blur. Problem is, nothing I do seems to be effective in exorcizing this demon.

I have tried several monitors. Currently, I am using an Asus ROG Swift PG279Q with a Geforce RTX 2060 graphics card. D-link is cable, and I have the system set to 120 hz. I had hoped that this might finally solve this massive ongoing headache, but the improvement is minimal. The problem is most noticeable when panning the camera in first and third person games. And it just won't go away.

Strangely, the only improvement I notice is in some of the tests on testufo.com. But this does not translate to any tangible improvement in practice, at least not that I can discern. Games still possess that nagging blur in cutscenes and whenever the camera is shifted. I have tried using G-Sync. I have tried using ULMB (set to normal). But nothing works. It honestly makes me start to think that these optimization technologies are just fraudulent money grabs.

Is there a fix for this? I feel like if I were to be able to somehow optimize the NVIDIA settings, I might be on the verge of breakthrough. But this might just be wishful thinking. I have attempted seemingly everything, and am honestly bloody sick of throwing money at this issue. And I am completely baffled as to how the test results could differ from my practical game experience. Is there any solution to this nonsense, or am I beyond all hope?

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jorimt
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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by jorimt » 21 Oct 2020, 09:45

Sick_of_Blur wrote:
20 Oct 2020, 22:45
As my username implies, I am a gamer with a long history with motion blur. I am also sick of blur. Very, very sick of blur. Problem is, nothing I do seems to be effective in exorcizing this demon.
The Chief Blur Buster is the resident motion blur expert around here, so hopefully he'll chime in, but as a very quick primer...

Monitor motion blur (not counting any in-game processing effects) is primarily comprised of two things:

1. Pixel transition time (more commonly known as "GtG" for LCDs)
2. Image persistence (which is measured by MPRT, aka Motion Picture Response Time)

If you eliminate #1, you can still have #2, and if you eliminate #2, you can still have #1.

On LCDs, properly configured overdrive can reduce #1, and properly configured strobing (ULMB, etc) can reduce #2.

Ever increasing 1:1 framerate/refresh rate ratio can also reduce #2, but this isn't always achievable from a performance (or budget) standpoint, and we haven't quite hit the max refresh rates (+ achievable framerates) necessary to match the clarity of good strobing implementation.

As for G-SYNC, it is solely a syncing method, and it is not intended to reduce motion blur. It only prevents tearing and uneven frame delivery with variable framerates.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Templardude » 21 Oct 2020, 16:39

Sick of Blur, I hear you loud and clear. I've been sick of blur since I moved from CRTs to LCDs what 15 to 20 years ago. I've been looking/waiting ever since. The best panel to eliminate as much blur as possible are TN panels but everyone always beats them up because of viewing angles/color etc. I've had some pretty good TN panels that rival an IPS. I had them sitting next to each other and you couldn't tell but I digress....

My current monitor an Asus ROG Swift PG279qz does an OK job reducing blur but I have to turn off GSYNC and lower the refresh rate to 120hz then ULMB will kick in reducing motion blur dramatically. However it's not implemented well so when ULMB is enabled my regular desktop screen is to dark. The games look normal. So I have to keep switching between the settings every time I want to play a FPS game.

I have my eye on the Dell Alienware AW2721D mentioned on the front blurbuster page. I don't know if this will be an improvement but I hope so.

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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 21 Oct 2020, 17:04

[This forum reply may later be converted to a Blur Busters Article, the forums is a frequent incubation location for future Blur Busters articles]

CRT Nirvana Guide for DIsappointed CRT-to-LCD Upgraders
Templardude wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 16:39
Sick of Blur, I hear you loud and clear. I've been sick of blur since I moved from CRTs to LCDs what 15 to 20 years ago.
Sick_of_Blur wrote:
20 Oct 2020, 22:45
As my username implies, I am a gamer with a long history with motion blur. I am also sick of blur. Very, very sick of blur. Problem is, nothing I do seems to be effective in exorcizing this demon.
1. The PG279Q has a fairly slow GtG that interferes with 60Hz versus 120Hz
2. Assuming GtG=0ms, and ULMB=OFF, then 120Hz only halves display motion blur.
3. Assuming you're okay with strobing, then try NVIDIA ULMB on your monitor AND using VSYNC OFF + 120fps minimum

Remember to use the correct terminology. "Motion Blur" is different from "Ghosting" and "Strobe Crosstalk. Also, Motion Blur Reduction FAQ has a list of common strobe brands (LightBoost, ULMB, DyAc, VRB, ELMB, PureXP, etc).

Ghosting = Asymmetric Motion Blur

Image
Ghosting is more blur on one edge than the opposite edge. Commonly seen during Overdrive=OFF or slow IPS/VA. See LCD Motion Artifacts

Coronas = Odd Colored Motion Blur

Image
Coronas is inverse ghosting on one edge that often looks substantially brigther/darker. See LCD Overdrive Artifacts

Simple Motion Blur

Image
Persistence based motion blur. You need to double Hz to halve this; You need to quadruple Hz to quarter this. Pixel Response: GtG versus MPRT

Strobe Crosstalk (ULMB, DyAc, PureXP, etc)

Image
Strobe crosstalk double images. You can reduce this by using a lower strobe refresh rate AND making sure framerate=Hz. Refresh rate headroom is your friend. 120Hz strobing on a 240Hz panel, for example. You need fast GtG, high max Hz (fast scanout velocity)

Two Ways To Fix Motion Blur

1. Strobe/Impulse Method: Use a strobe mode + VSYNC ON + guarantee framerate=Hz. Best: 100fps at 100Hz strobed on 240Hz+ panel;
2. Non-Strobe Method: Sheer frame rate + refresh rate. 360fps @ 360Hz nonstrobed.

To understand why, please read about two totally different pixel response methods: Pixel Response FAQ: GtG versus MPRT, to understand how the two different pixel response methods interferes with motion blur.
- GtG must be less than half a refresh cycle where possible. Faster GtG = less blur/crosstalk at higher Hz
- MPRT is more important than GtG if you're worried about motion blur, but GtG still needs to be simultaneously fast.
- MPRT can be slower than GtG (bad)
- GtG can be slower than MPRT (bad)
- Simultaneously fast GtG + fast MPRT (good)

OPTION 1:
Fix Motion Blur With Strobing Method

(ULMB, LightBoost, ELMB, VRB, DyAc, PureXP, BFI, etc)

Image
1. Choose the highest Hz monitor you can afford, try to get a brighter strobe backlight too (to avoid dim strobing)
2. Run the monitor at a Hz FAR BELOW max
3. Refresh rate headroom is your best friend to reduce strobe crosstalk double images.
4. Make sure you have a framerate matching refreshrate
5. Mouse pollrate 1000Hz
6. Mouse pollrate 2000Hz+ for 360Hz+ monitors (photo proof; see why)
7. Mouse DPI should be high for high-DPI-friendly games such as Valorant. While CS:GO sometimes go wonky >800dpi, Valorant does not; it runs beautiful at 8000Hz 3200dpi since Valorant is 3200dpi-friendly, and eliminates mouse jitters from ruining CRT effects at above-CRT resolutions;
8. If you need even clearer (and don't mind darker), then use smaller pulse widths (LightBoost 10%, ULMB Pulse Width 30%, DyAc Strobe Length Low, PureXP+ Ultra)
  • Recommended CRT Nirvana Monitor #1: Blur Busters Approved ViewSonic XG270 running 100 Hz / 120Hz / 144Hz (preferably the Quick Frame Transport easter egg modes) + Low-Lag VSYNC (either RTSS Scanline Sync or NVIDIA NULL or Low-Lag VSYNC HOWTO)
  • Recommended CRT Nirvana Monitor #2: BenQ DyAc XL2546 series at either 120Hz / 144Hz / 182Hz + Low-Lag VSYNC (either RTSS Scanline Sync or NVIDIA NULL or Low-Lag VSYNC HOWTO)
  • Recommended CRT Nirvana Monitor #3: ASUS VG259QM 280 Hz Monitor with ELMB-SYNC enabled, and framerates above 200fps, "G-SYNC Compatible + VSYNC ON" in NVCP, "VSYNC OFF" in game, RTSS cap 275fps.
  • Recommended CRT Nirvana Monitor #4: LG 55" CX Series OLED Television with G-SYNC turned OFF, at 60Hz or 120Hz refresh rate, with "OLED Motion Pro" set to maximum setting for black frame insertion (4.2ms MPRT) + Low-Lag VSYNC (either RTSS Scanline Sync or NVIDIA NULL or Low-Lag VSYNC HOWTO). Zero strobe crosstalk, less motion blur than plasma TV, albiet laggier than CRT
Expectation Tempering-o-Meter: Strobe-based blur reduction can flicker and dim the screen. And you need to work hard to match framerate=Hz for the absolutely most beautiful strobed motion. Strobing looks jittery/juddery/harsh with mismatched framerates.

OPTION 2:
Fix Motion Blur Flickerlessly With Sheer Refresh Rate


Image
1. Without strobing, you need double fps+Hz halves motion blur. 360fps+360Hz has 1/6th the motion blur of 60fps+60Hz.
2. Get a 240 Hz or higher refresh rate with the fastest GtG. Try to keep realworld GtG below half max-Hz refreshtime.
3. Use G-SYNC Native with Dynamic Overdrive, for less ghosting/coronas interference to your motion blur
4. Use an RTX 2000 series or 3000 series GPU for maximum framerate.
5. If you do not understand why you need sheer refresh rate to fix blur strobelessly (no CRT, no phosphor, no flicker, no strobe), please read the textbook article Blur Busters Law: The Amazing Journey To Future 1000 Hz Displays.
  • Recommended Strobeless Nirvana Monitor #1: ASUS 360 Hz PG259QN "G-SYNC + VSYNC ON" in NVCP, "VSYNC OFF" in game, RTSS cap 355fps + RTX 3090 GPU + Possibly DLSS 2.0
  • Recommended Strobeless Nirvana Monitor #2: ASUS 280 Hz VG259QM Monitor with ELMB-SYNC disabled, but G-SYNC Compatible enabled, "G-SYNC Compatible + VSYNC ON" in NVCP, "VSYNC OFF" in game, RTSS cap 275fps + RTX 3090 GPU + Possibly DLSS 2.0.
Expectation Tempering-o-Meter: During G-SYNC, motion blur will go down proportionally to framerate, until 360fps is approximately 1/6th blur of 60fps. Make sure you get the absolute fastest real-world non-overshoot GtG possible, since perfect linear scaling for motion blur versus frametime only occurs during GtG=0ms, and GtG is never that fast.

PROBLEM: My Framerates Are Below Hz!

Sorry, one has to "suck it up cupcake" if hating blur/doubleimages. Upgrade your GPU, lower game detail, or if you're strobing, use a lower refresh rate. You need fps=Hz for good strobing, combined with extra refreshrate headroom to squeeze GtG in the VBI between refresh cycles (so 120Hz strobed at 240Hz looks better than 120Hz strobed at 144Hz).

PROBLEM: Strobing adds too much lag for me

Then use Method #2 which is much more lagless. Use brute framerates and brute refresh rates to achieve strobeless blur reduction. Remember that doubling Hz halves display motion blur (assuming GtG=0), so keep raising Hz and framerates as much as you can afford to. If you're blur-priority instead of lag-priority (e.g. playing solo games) then strobing lag doesn't matter for you. But if it does, you still have a second option: Brute framerate on brute Hz, try 360Hz display + 8000Hz mouse + RTX3090 for the closest thing to strobeless blur reduction.

PROBLEM: I want VSYNC OFF

Sorry, one has to "suck it up cupcake" if hating blur/doubleimages. There are new "Log Lag VSYNC ON" inventions that didn't exist in the CRT days. Use them and you just may be pleasantly surprised. The problem is today's LCDs are much higher resolutions than yesterday's CRT, which means VSYNC OFF is a microstutter weak link that diminishes the "CRT effect" to an extent. But if you insist on VSYNC OFF, please use overkill framerates far beyond refreshrate to brute-force the "strobe-amplified jitters" and "strobe double images" away. 200fps or 300fps at 100Hz strobed can look okay. Please note, it only fixes framerate-derived double images; it will NOT fix slow-GtG-derived double images (aka strobe crosstalk). Optimization tricks for CRT effect on LCDs are different because of various factors (bigger displays, higher resolutions, etc), not many CRT owners are familiar with these tricks.

PROBLEM: I have intermittent stutters during mid-game asset loads

You're stuck by game limitations sometimes, but you can reduce them as much as possible by getting the fastest SSD you can get (with great QD1 numbers + great IOPS numbers), even Optane Memory can sometimes help your asset-load-related 0.1% frametimes (because those have great IOPS + amazing QD1). Or, if you have 32GB RAM or more, test moving your game to a RAMdisk to reduce asset-load stutters (16GB memory + 16GB ramdisk). But CPU/GPU processing overheads is another problem; so the fastest CPU+GPU can help to an extent (but some games are just beyond help). But some games will always stutter, so you're stuck. Failing it, you may have to cherrypick your games to older games that doesn't have visible stutters for your motion-blur-reducing performance envelope. Older solo games like Crysis 2, Bioshock Infinite, Deus Ex, tends to work great on my PG259QN 360Hz+ during VRR (strobeless blur reduction), looking almost like a CRT without needing strobing. You can also always use the strobed method, and use a low refresh rate + low frame rate, in order to filter out your asset load stutters. 75Hz strobed on 240Hz IPS panels look simply amazing nowadays to CRT afficanados.

PROBLEM: I have continous stutters / jittering / juddering / low framerates in my game

Fix them. As much as you can. For fixed Hz, use framerate=Hz. For VRR, keep your framerate range inside VRR range. Mouse microstutter can generate high-frequency jittering that blends to motion blur (via the stutter-to-blur continuum). Unsynchronized (VSYNC OFF) microstutter can generate high-frequency jittering that blends to motion blur (via the stutter-to-blur continuum). If you are unfamiliar with the stutter-to-blur continuum, it's the way that low-frequency stutter looks very vibratey (like a slow guitar string) and high-frequency stutter looks very blurry (like a fast guitar string). There's even a mic-drop TestUFO animation that demonstrates the stutter-to-blur continuum: TestUFO Variable Refresh Rate Animation: Demonstration of the Stutter-to-Blur Continuum.

Moral of the story, no matter how subtle they are (high-frequency jittering blends to 1 pixel extra motion blur), fix your stutters/jitters. They're all potential motion blur contributors (at sufficient high jitter frequencies. Fix your mouse DPI, fix your unsynchronized framerates, fix all your stutter-sources. Do your best. They're all potential motion blur weak links that piles on top, above-and-beyond GtG and MPRT response.

Use Low-Hz Strobing To Blur-Reduce Newer Games:
Ultralow Strobed Refresh Rates Needed for RTX Raytraced CRT Nirvana In Cyberpunk 2077 and Newest Games

Newer games will have a large problem achieving motion blur reduction nirvana, so your prime directive for strobed operations is 0.1% frametimes above your target refreshtimes, so reduce your refresh rate to 75Hz or 85Hz on a 240Hz monitor for stellar CRT-quality motion-blur-reduced Cyberpunk 2077. You'll want need 240Hz IPS to comletely eliminate crosstalk at 75Hz. Make sure you buy a monitor capable of good ultra-low Hz strobing, 120Hz strobing will look bad for framerates below 120fps. 75fps@75Hz strobed has less motion blur than 240fps@240Hz nonstrobed. Remember, refresh rate headroom massively improves low-Hz strobing with less strobe crosstalk! You've been strobing the wrong way if you didn't know about that. Alternatively, go sideways away from monitors, and try a great recommendation is the new 2020 LG CX OLED televisions, which can do 60Hz and 120Hz strobing at 4.2ms MPRT, which looks clearer motion than plasma. Not quite as good as CRT, but less motion blur than a plasma, so great for nearly-blurfree 60fps nirvana. RTX raytracing often reduce game framerates to under 60fps, so you need DLSS 2.0 to bump the RTX raytraced framerates back to framerate=Hz. Then you've magically got a 55" CRT look-feel for Cyberpunk 2077 + DLSS 2.0 with all the RTX raytracing goodness;

Use High-Hz Non-Strobed Brute Frame Rate For Older Games:
Brute frame rates can look near CRT clarity on 360 Hz+ monitors with the oldest games

For older games, the brute-framerate method of blur reduction works fine -- use G-SYNC + brute Hz for these games. For example Bioshock Infinite manages to hit near 360fps at reduced detail levels, and begins to almost look like a CRT without needing to turn on ULMB. 360Hz is still 1/360sec = like a 2.78ms phosphor. Keep your framerates high, beyond 300fps where possible to have less motion blur than a plasma television. This is the closest thing to blurless sample-and-hold today, as of 2020. Yes, I have an ASUS PG259QN here too, and I can confirm it's the closest thing to blurless sample-and-hold money can buy today -- assuming your framerates nearly always exceed 300fps for the brute-force flickerless strobeless blur reduction method. There's a very smidge amount of ghosting, but it sorta reminds me of a slow-persistence CRT moreso than an LCD!

PROBLEM: I have double images during strobing!

Double images are caused by two things (sometimes simultaneously):
1. Framerate below Hz; and
2. Slow GtG overlapping two refresh cycles.
Image

If you see double images during non-strobed operation, that's a different effect than strobe crosstalk. It's the mouse arrow effect. Fixed eye gaze while objects scroll past. Only higher fps+Hz fixes this.

How to Fix Strobe Crosstalk

1. Good strobed monitor running a strobed refresh rate BELOW your monitor's maximum refresh rate.
2. Get a higher Hz monitor just to get better quality strobing. For example, 240Hz Blur Busters Approved Monitor with excellent 120Hz strobing.
3. If you can't match fps=Hz, please lower your refresh rate. 100fps@100Hz strobed looks better than 100fps@120Hz strobed.
4. Use VSYNC ON, not VSYNC OFF when using strobing. Use NVIDIA NULL, or Low-Lag VSYNC, or RTSS Scanline Sync. Blur haters need to ignore the parrot VSYNC OFF advice, if zero blur is more important goal.
5. Please make sure your 0.1% frametime is equal or above your refresh rate. So if your framerate valley is 100fps, please use 100Hz instead of 120Hz or 144Hz.
6. Please lower your game detail until your 0.1% frametime is equal to your refresh rate time.
7. Please make sure your mouse is not the microstutter weak link. Use 1600dpi or 3200dpi if your game works well with it (e.g. Valorant is beautiful at 1600dpi at 1/4th in-game sensitivity and 3200dpi at 1/8th in-game sensitivity). Older games like CS:GO may have trouble. This allows mouse to have TestUFO-smooth mouseturns with CRT motion clarity. Ignore the parrot 400dpi or 800dpi advice, if zero blur is more important goal, and your game is properly high-DPI-friendly.
8. Please upgrade your GPU so your 0.1% frametime is equal to your refresh rate time.
9. Again, use VSYNC ON-like method if you hate "double images" or "strobe jittering". Yes, it sometimes means a tiny bit more lag, but you can use low-lag VSYNC methods.
10. If you're using a strobed refresh rate far below max Hz, you might be able to use a custom Quick Frame Transport mode (large Vertical Total) combined with end-of-VBI RTSS Scanline Sync, to lower strobe lag significantly. Some monitors can accept a 120Hz refresh cycle transmitted over cable in 1/240sec, reducing strobed lag (panel refreshes faster in total darkness before strobe backlight flash).

Pandora Box Parrot

-- Yes, yes, CS:GO is terrible at 1600dpi or 3200dpi mouse. But Valorant is perfectly fine at 1600dpi and 3200dpi (fixes a lot of ULMB jittering problems). And when 8000Hz mice come out, instabuy them and run them at ~2000Hz-4000Hz (min) if using 360Hz+. They make a noticeable difference for jitter-free ULMB.
-- Yes, yes, unfortunately many games do a bad job of framerate=Hz, and many games do a bad job of reaching 360fps, so you'll have to cherrypick a lot of older games to achieve your blur nirvana goals.
-- Yes, yes, it's expensive to purchase an RTX 2080 or RTX 3080, but it's worth it to fix your "0.1% frametime not reaching Hz" blur problem in some games. You really need to try to go framerate=Hz for nirvana. And if you're using strobing, reducing refresh rate sometimes (refresh rate headroom below max Hz = better strobing) fixes the CRT effect miraculously.

Scientific References

<Justified Ego Moment>
Do you know why we are called Blur Busters? We know this stuff, we're the trusted source. Most people do it wrong (240Hz crosstalky VSYNC OFF strobing, or 144Hz blurry G-SYNC) if they're trying to fix blur. Did you buy an older 2019-era "3ms IPS", not realizing how real world GtG can retard the double-Hz-half-blur progress? Did you confuse the two simultaneously-important pixel response benchmarks, GtG vs MPRT? Did you buy a recent fast-GtG fast-MPRT panel? Do you understand the Vicious Cycle Effect where higher Hz and resolutions making low framerate blur more visible? Are you incorrectly listening to blur-unoptimized VSYNC OFF advice? Are you listening to blur-unoptimized G-SYNC purchase advice? Do it properly. People go silent when I show them in a classroom. (I'm actually paid to do this stuff). And yes, sometimes Milliseconds Matters. Look bud, I'm not even dropping the microphone, I'm golfing the microphone 400 yards into a hole-in-one, full stop (ka-ching!). The whole room is silent.
</Justified Ego Moment>

Blur Busters is now cited in over 20 different peer-reviewed research papers. Most recently, Samsung researchers in September 2020 cited our TestUFO to help develop a new motion measurement method. We have cred, we have rep, we've often won the microphone drop on motion blur advice, you might as well consider my mere casual Popular Science articles as golden textbook study material:
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 21 Oct 2020, 18:07

Templardude wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 16:39
My current monitor an Asus ROG Swift PG279qz does an OK job reducing blur but I have to turn off GSYNC and lower the refresh rate to 120hz then ULMB will kick in reducing motion blur dramatically. However it's not implemented well so when ULMB is enabled my regular desktop screen is to dark. The games look normal. So I have to keep switching between the settings every time I want to play a FPS game.
You can use NVIDIA Control Panel to have a game-specific ULMB setting. You can create a custom resolution 2560x1438 that only has 120Hz to force ULMB for all games who you configure "2560x1438" in the Resolution settings of your game. That way, bright desktop, but ULMB-enhanced game.
Templardude wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 16:39
I have my eye on the Dell Alienware AW2721D mentioned on the front blurbuster page. I don't know if this will be an improvement but I hope so.
Possibly good choice if you want 1440p with low crosstalk. 240Hz 1ms IPS + running 120Hz strobe = gigantic improvement over 144Hz IPS. Just beware of the slow red phosphor; that affects strobe quality on some models. Not important if you use the brute-framerate approach of strobeless blur reduction.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Sick_of_Blur » 22 Oct 2020, 19:46

You've given me a lot to digest...I don't even know where to start. But I did run some tests the other night and tonight, and found that Psychonauts only performs with ULMB enabled (and set to 80 or lower). At the risk of sounding really ignorant, the FPS stuff was revelatory. I became curious, and did some tests in regards to FPS. I discovered that, of the games I tested, only Little Nightmares, Deathspank, Darq and Inside were running at 120 fps. The other games I have tested (Rimworld, Fable Anniversary Edition, Outlast and Psychonauts could only manage 85 max (in the case of Rimworld, it noticeably struggled to get above 35). What could be the reason for this discrepency?

It's looking more and more like getting 120 FPS on all of my games is the key to getting everything working as it should. But I'm still confused on how to go about doing that. I'm even more confused as to the reasons Psychonauts (a bloody 15-year old game, for crying out loud!) is having such a difficult time being optimal on an RTX 2060 supported with an Asus ROG Swift PG279Q.

And I don't even want to conceptualize how blurry Assassin's Creed: Valhalla and Cyberpunk 2077 will look with this set up if I don't get this sorted by mid-November... :o

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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Oct 2020, 21:11

Glad that I helped!
Sick_of_Blur wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 19:46
You've given me a lot to digest...I don't even know where to start. But I did run some tests the other night and tonight, and found that Psychonauts only performs with ULMB enabled (and set to 80 or lower).
ULMB Pulse Width 80 and lower, I presume? Yes, that really helps perfect framerate=Hz motion.
Sick_of_Blur wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 19:46
At the risk of sounding really ignorant, the FPS stuff was revelatory.
Glad I helped!
Sick_of_Blur wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 19:46
I became curious, and did some tests in regards to FPS. I discovered that, of the games I tested, only Little Nightmares, Deathspank, Darq and Inside were running at 120 fps. The other games I have tested (Rimworld, Fable Anniversary Edition, Outlast and Psychonauts could only manage 85 max (in the case of Rimworld, it noticeably struggled to get above 35). What could be the reason for this discrepency?
Certain older engines often used timers and other things that don't scale well with framerates, so they're incapable of generating extremely high framerates without glitches. Skyrim is famously known in year 2014 for glitching when forcing a framerate uncapping for 144Hz monitors. Recent games now tend to avoid this.

Even today, I still have to teach software developers how to properly implement VRR. Now it works great at any framerate cap (perfect for ULMB) and great with G-SYNC (stutterless framerate fluctuations).
Sick_of_Blur wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 19:46
It's looking more and more like getting 120 FPS on all of my games is the key to getting everything working as it should. But I'm still confused on how to go about doing that. I'm even more confused as to the reasons Psychonauts (a bloody 15-year old game, for crying out loud!) is having such a difficult time being optimal on an RTX 2060 supported with an Asus ROG Swift PG279Q.
You may need to switch to a different strobed technology that can do 75Hz through max Hz in 0.001 Hz increments. Those flexible monitors are very helpful. ULMB is very limiting in refresh rate selection, so ULMB cannot yet qualify for a Blur Busters Approved logo status until NVIDIA fixes the limited-choices refresh rate problem (I'm currently talking to NVIDIA about this).
Sick_of_Blur wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 19:46
And I don't even want to conceptualize how blurry Assassin's Creed: Valhalla and Cyberpunk 2077 will look with this set up if I don't get this sorted by mid-November... :o
You're likely going to have to spend money. I doubt 85fps 1440p RTX is possible with your current rig (your minimum ULMB Hz).

You might want to attempt the 60Hz ULMB Hack (and its Forum Thread) to try to lower your ULMB minimum refresh rate in 0.001 Hz increments. Things will start to flicker noticeably at 75Hz and things will start to flicker uncomfortably at ~60Hz. Your comfort zone will vary. Things might become too dark (compared to brighter strobed monitors).
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Sick_of_Blur
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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Sick_of_Blur » 22 Oct 2020, 21:25

I'm still confused...do you mean that my present pc is inadequate, or my monitor? Or both?

I just brought this PC last summer. Cost me $1,700. Being tech-ignorant, I had it built with parts friends declared were optimal.

There must be some way to get this done without offering them my left arm and/or signing away my firstborn.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Oct 2020, 22:46

Sick_of_Blur wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 21:25
I'm still confused...do you mean that my present pc is inadequate, or my monitor? Or both?
You don't have to do both, it depends on your goals.
1. If your framerate is too low, you may need to upgrade the GPU to help. Most of your computer is fine.
2. If your monitor stroberate doesn't match your framerate goals, you need to upgrade monitor to help.

Your goal is to raise framerate (on computer side) and make stroberate flexible (on monitor side) to make possible the CRT nirvana mode (stroberate = refreshrate = framerate)

For example, an RTX2060 will be just fine for most games, but CyberPunk RTX raytracing might be half the framerate as on an RTX 3090. For example 35fps versus 70fps. 35fps is not strobeable, while 70fps is strobeable. You could turn RTX off and/or use DLSS 2.0 and probably still get strobeable framerates in Cyberpunk 2077 with your existing RTX 2060. Going to be a tough call if you're wanting no-compromises strobeable bliss with Cyberpunk 2077

The problem is raytracing (aka "RTX ON") usually results in framerates far below minimum strobed Hz in many raytraced-capable games.. So, if you compromise and give up on having "RTX ON", and cherrypick games, you don't need to upgrade both GPU and monitor. Also, you might be able to get by with your existing monitor with the ULMB Hack, and only a GPU upgrade.

You can also dramatically lower your resolution (1280x720 game + RTX ON + DLSS 2.0) to get a reasonable looking 1440p image on an RTX 2060 in new RTX-capable games. 720p is low but you can great DLSS 2.0 as a good scaler/upconverter to maintain strobe-friendly framerates with less RTX horsepower.

CyberPunk 2077 RTX framerates might be higher than expected, but it is expected that CP2077 is going to be the new "Can It Run Crysis?" with maxed-out Ultra settings expected to grind down to well in the 30fps leagues even on high end NVIDIA cards if the DLSS setting is turned off.

For CRT nirvana with envelope-pushing games such as CP2077, you will need framerate=Hz during strobed refresh rates above human flicker thresholds (75fps 75Hz) preferably. You will probably need to turn on DLSS 2.0 if you want good strobing with RTX raytracing.

If you eliminate the top 5% envelope-pushing games, you probably need no upgrade provided you use the low-Hz ULMB hacks for games unable to run at standard minimum 85Hz ULMB strobe rate. And then just stay with G-SYNC when doing "RTX ON", if you can tolerate the extra display motion blur of low non-strobed framerates.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

Templardude
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Re: G-Sync does not address motion blur [And How To Fix Motion Blur]

Post by Templardude » 24 Oct 2020, 16:53

WOW! Best response ever in a forum post. :) So Chief Blur Buster set me straight. When I initially switched from CRT to LCD I was testing with Unreal Tournament 2k3. I ran up to a metal grate fence with a sign on it. When strafing quickly back and forth with the CRT I could read it. With the LCD it was unreadable. Same thing with Call of Duty with a tank. Strafing quickly back and forth made an "anomaly" that wasn't their with a CRT.

So was that ghosting or motion blur. I've called it both over the years.

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