100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Talk about overclocking displays at a higher refresh rate. This includes homebrew, 165Hz, QNIX, Catleap, Overlord Tempest, SEIKI displays, certain HDTVs, and other overclockable displays.
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trey31
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100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by trey31 » 31 Dec 2013, 12:04

Ok so I have set refresh overclocks (and downsample resolutions) via NVIDIA Control Panel.

I am working on a compilation of info to put into a guide for using NVIDIA CP to achieve refresh rate and Downsample overclocks. I have used NVIDIA control panel custom resolutions for several TVs/monitors. However, none of the previous panels would successfully overclock refresh rates. So now that I have a TV that does accept refresh overclocks, I have a few issues that I've never encountered before. Here goes:

1. Games by default, use a 60hz refresh rate.

In order to solve the issue (according to the intrawebs), a custom resolution can be made (say 1280x721) with only a 120hz refresh rate, to force games to default to that custom resolution's only available refresh rate. My problem is that if a custom resolution doesn't have a 60hz refresh rate present, the resolution will only be available in the NVIDIA control panel and not in Windows 8 (not 8.1, I'm avoiding that for now). So if a custom resolution of 2560x1440@100hz is made, it won't show up in Windows Change Resolution screen, thus not being visible to any games. (according to the CRU thread this bug could be an issue with GeForce Experience being installed, which was auto installed by NVIDIA with the 331.xx driver update; however it was uninstalled, and drivers changed several times all the way back to 306.xx, always with "Perform a clean installation" checked; which according to ToastyX should have fixed the issue.) However, if another custom resolution of 2560x1440@60hz is added via NVCP, 2560x1440 now becomes available through Windows in the Change Resolution screen & games can now see and use that resolution. By default Windows Change Resolution uses the 60hz refresh rate, but clicking "advanced" link does show all refresh rates above 60hz and are available ("hide modes this monitor cannot display" box unchecked). By default, games will only use the 60hz refresh rate. One workaround is to enter the game and set that resolution (1440p) while the desktop is at 1080p, then minimize the game (via the Windows button, Ctrl+Alt+Del, or Ctrl+Enter) and change the desktop resolution to 2560x1440@100hz, then resume the game. In most instances, the game then runs at the new 100hz refresh rate. I know this is working because motion is smoother, lag is less noticeable, FPS go up to 100hz according to Fraps, and I confirmed every custom refresh rate via photos using Blur Buster's (super awesome!) frame skipping test. This is a hassle and is very time consuming. In some instances, games will continue to use 60hz refresh rate anyway, but I think those may be frame rate limited anyway.

2. Windows Change Resolution screen sees 108hz for 1920x1080p resolution, but still defaults to 60hz first. Games stuck at 60hz even with the above workaround for 1080p.

I can select the default 60hz resolution, then click advanced and select the 108hz refresh rate. It works and has no frame skipping, as confirmed via photos in the Vizio M651d-A2R thread. The problem is, using the above method of minimizing a game and changing the desktop resolution & re-entering the game does not work. The games will stay at 60hz. I'm assuming I could make 1920x1081 @60hz and @108hz resolutions and use the above method which works for 2560x1440@100hz and 2880x1620@88hz (which oddly is frame duplicating rather than skipping), but I am trying to figure out how to fix this so that Windows accepts the NVCP custom resolutions/refresh rates higher refresh rates as default. I really need to fix this, rather than add yet another work-around for 1080p resolutions.


Details:
  • I uninstalled GeForce Experience (which I never used anyway) as it could cause issues, and have gone back and forth with several drivers, to no avail. I chose Clean Install as suggested each time.
  • CRU utility is designed to raise refresh rates/timings, not for scaling/downsampling. ToastyX is pretty clear on that. Even so I tried using CRU for 1080p refresh rates, and the same issues are present for the CRU created resolutions as the NVCP resolutions.
  • The PC is running Windows 8, so unsigned driver workarounds for using EDID overrides are not as easy as Windows 7, and must be applied/re-applied every time the system is booted/shutdown. Not much better imo than the current workaround I'm using.
  • GPUs are 3-way SLI, not dedicated Physx, and obviously I'm using compatible drivers. I have tried disabling SLI, to no avail. Back in SLI mode currently.
  • I have not used the CRU patch for NVIDIA pixel clock limit, as it doesn't seem to matter when using NVCP to create custom resolutions/timings. If I did, the patch would break HDCP (as I understand it), so using the PC for non-gaming media content would require reverting from the patch each time HDCP were needed.
  • I have not tried 1600x900@120hz, nor 1280x720@120hz yet, but I assume they would have the same issues as all of the others. Either way, 720p isn't pleasing to the eye on 65" panels.
  • This is a TV, so HDMI is the only reasonable option as the TV has no DisplayPort nor Dual Link DVI.
  • I use NVCP's gobal V-Sync set to On (not adaptive) normally, but have tried disabling it as well. Only results in 100+ FPS with screen tearing because by default games run at 60hz. After the workaround, Fraps shows 100hz or 88hz with V-Sync on and no tearing.

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shadman
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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by shadman » 31 Dec 2013, 19:38

Have you at all tried installing the Catleap driver? That was needed when Windows would run at the over clocked frequency, but not games. I'm not sure if it would affect scaling/down sampling, however. But you would need to install as an unsigned driver, but this should be rolled back every time, as I've been using it on windows 8 and 8.1 perfectly fine, and I think its different than an EDID override.

http://120hz.net/showthread.php?683-Ove ... tart-Guide

Though, we will see who else has suggestions for this.

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trey31
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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by trey31 » 01 Jan 2014, 17:53

shadman wrote:Have you at all tried installing the Catleap driver? That was needed when Windows would run at the over clocked frequency, but not games. I'm not sure if it would affect scaling/down sampling, however. But you would need to install as an unsigned driver, but this should be rolled back every time, as I've been using it on windows 8 and 8.1 perfectly fine, and I think its different than an EDID override.

http://120hz.net/showthread.php?683-Ove ... tart-Guide

Though, we will see who else has suggestions for this.
So you just always stay in test mode with this then? I read the watermark is always visible, and it starts breaking stuff in 8/8.1 if its removed?

I am curious about signing a driver. That seems the best route, but I've read conflicting reports like it still needs to be in test mode to work?

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trey31
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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by trey31 » 02 Jan 2014, 14:04

So if I use Toasty's full patcher for SLI unlock, does it mean HDCP is broken regardless of which resolution the monitor is using (always broken), or is that only while 2560x1440@100+ is set as the current resolution? So if I just changed the resolution back to 1080/59.94 or 1080/23.976 then I would be back below the pixel clock limit and could then watch HDCP content? Or the patch breaks it altogether? What if I turned SLI off for HDCP content? Would that work?

Black Octagon
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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by Black Octagon » 03 Jan 2014, 12:21

Returning resolution to standard should restore HDCP support, if memory serves correct

Sent from dumbphone (pls excuse typos and dumbness)

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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Jan 2014, 13:03

For quick resolution changes, I often recommend Entech Taiwan's MultiRes. Just an easy click to change resolution/refresh rate, via the system tray. You just switch back to 60Hz, and HDCP should come back. It's sometimes a hassle, but this utility makes it less so. One click to a custom resolution, or custom refresh. Then another click to go back to normal.

1280x721 works great? That's good! Custom resolutions one pixel less seems to generally be more reliable than custom resolutions one pixel more, but I'd like to know if this is consistently the case (or not).
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trey31
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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by trey31 » 03 Jan 2014, 16:15

Black Octagon wrote:Returning resolution to standard should restore HDCP support, if memory serves correct

Sent from dumbphone (pls excuse typos and dumbness)
Thanks. This settles it, I'm going to patch it up!

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trey31
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Re: 100hz+ overclocked TV, games default to 60hz not 100hz?

Post by trey31 » 06 Jan 2014, 19:49

Chief Blur Buster wrote:For quick resolution changes, I often recommend Entech Taiwan's MultiRes. Just an easy click to change resolution/refresh rate, via the system tray. You just switch back to 60Hz, and HDCP should come back. It's sometimes a hassle, but this utility makes it less so. One click to a custom resolution, or custom refresh. Then another click to go back to normal.

1280x721 works great? That's good! Custom resolutions one pixel less seems to generally be more reliable than custom resolutions one pixel more, but I'd like to know if this is consistently the case (or not).
1600x900@120hz with standard/manual timings works. 1760x990@120hz works but its not always stable when switching source on the tv, I'm sure this is because of my trial and error approach, and the lack of being able to find any published info on standard timings, which is absolutely not surprising because it is an arbitrary resolution as far as I know (not native to any particular panels). And yes 1280x720@120hz works great, but I've not really used it for anything yet. 1280x721@ any refresh, appears to blur random lines of text on the screen. No doubt it is throwing off the scaling.

I used Entech's MonInfo tool to create new native resolutions for my Vizio's EDID driver. 1920x1080@108hz ( "1920x1080" 267.300 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hysnc -vsync ) and ("1280x720" 148.500 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync ) under the Timings > native/preferred timing setting under File>Edit, in case anyone is interested. But I'm going to do a native 1600x900 timing soon if I can't get 100% stability for 1760x990 figured out, and just replace the 720p one.

Currently wrestling with the NVIDIA 3D Vision/3DTV Play features right now. This Vizio has a colorbug with Interlaced and Checkerboard modes. Apparently using a VGA cable fixes this on LG panels, but the Vizio only has HDMI/Composite/Component inputs. Also no digital audio inputs either, sad face.

On a positive note, even with the colorbug, HDMI Checkerboard & EDID modified Interlaced modes both seem to work identically beyond the 1080p@60hz "limitation" as they do @60hz/59hz/24hz. So if I can get either figured out, 3D Vision/Play on passive could go beyond the 60hz barrier. Far beyond actually. I noticed no difference between 108hz and 60hz, other than both are unwatchable due to the colorbug. As far as I understand it, Checkerboard and Interleaved/Interlaced both are processed on the GPU and sent out as a single 1920x1080 frame, so whatever the panel is capable of doing in 2D, it should be capable of in 3D as well (checkerboard/interlaced modes only, of course).

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