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I want to end this false debate that lower dpi is better or you always need to use 6/11 sens in windows mouse settings.
Its not true. Almost all games have now already raw input, so even if u wanna use 1600 dpi and u are kinda forced to set windows sensitivity to 4/11 its totally fine.
1600 dpi for fps games/fps shooters is better because of no pixel skipping and you are able to make better micro adjustment, its just more smooth.
You wanna still using 400 dpi ? sure, sit in your cave.
800 dpi? Its ok, quite balanced, but guys... just use 1600 dpi, lower by 50% ur sens in game (if u were using 800 dpi before for example) and lower ur window settings from 6/11 to 4/11 and ofc uncheck 'enhance pointer precision'
1 600 dpi on 4/11 is only a bit faster on desktop only but who cares, its ur desktop, at least you will be free with ur fast sensitivity (esspecialy for these people who were using 400 dpi on desktop because someone told them that 400 dpi is better than highest dpi - rest in peace guys)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwf_F2VboFQ

EDIT: read my next post
I think it's misleading to say that 1600+ DPI has lower latency than 400.

Battle(non)sense's tests would give different latency results if he moved his mice at different speed.
The faster you move the less difference in latency and vice versa.

A better way to measure mouse latency is good ol' MouseTester. I rely on pzogel and his tests for motion delay example.

forii wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2021, 17:25

I want to end this false debate that lower dpi is better or you always need to use 6/11 sens in windows mouse settings.
Its not true. Almost all games have now already raw input, so even if u wanna use 1600 dpi and u are kinda forced to set windows sensitivity to 4/11 its totally fine.

Well DPI is personal preference, so it is a little bit subjective. If you by low DPI mean like <=1600 then I agree. However above 1600, it is not going to make you better probably. Depends on a game also. Check Francois Morier senior engineer at Logitech https://youtu.be/lc7JVjcPzL0?t=157

You need to use 6/11, if you don't use raw input. Otherwise you don't have sensitivity you want and it leads to interpolation and pixel skipping!

Raw_input is not always the best, e.g. in CS GO it introduces smoothing, which cause lag and breaks 1:1 mouse ratio! And it is not always fastest method to collect user input - depends on what method is game using! When I disable raw_input e.g. in BF, or CS GO: mouse is much faster! Also some pros disable raw_input.

forii wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2021, 17:25

You wanna still using 400 dpi ? sure, sit in your cave.

I agree 400 DPI is insane! There people which play like on 500 also, which is still kinda insane to me. But if you can do it... 600-700 is still very low. 800 feels best to most people! Tho on 360hz monitors and 8khz mice, there will be probably need to lower DPI a bit, since it responds even to smallest hand movements and makes it hard to do small adjustments!

I don't know, if following is true. But I read pro configs from CS GO and some people still use 400 DPI and scale it in game to 800, or even 1000. I tried this and mouse was so jittery, that I couldn't even aim LOL. I don't think pros use still 400 DPI, but I could be wrong, sometimes there are players, which play on weirdest setups, that rest of 99% gamers don't understand how they can play on it... Also maybe they use smoothing, which was designed to counter jitter, caused by software interpolation!

forii wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2021, 17:25

800 dpi? Its ok, quite balanced, but guys... just use 1600 dpi, lower by 50% ur sens in game (if u were using 800 dpi before for example) and lower ur window settings from 6/11 to 4/11 and ofc uncheck 'enhance pointer precision'

1 600 dpi on 4/11 is only a bit faster on desktop only but who cares, its ur desktop, at least you will be free with ur fast sensitivity (esspecialy for these people who were using 400 dpi on desktop because someone told them that 400 dpi is better than highest dpi - rest in peace guys)...

You speak of pixel skipping and responsiveness, but what do you think is gonna happen, when you lower/up your sensitivity in a game?

About 1600 dpi: maybe there are some new mice which don't split pixels, but doubt it. Usually after like 800~ DPI mouse will split pixels into subpixels to achieve higher DPIs, which worsen precision. Besides 1600 is really max DPI anyone good would play at. Maybe except some exceptions, but most pros play under 1000 DPI!

forii wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2021, 17:25

1600 dpi for fps games/fps shooters is better because of no pixel skipping and you are able to make better micro adjustment, its just more smooth.
[/quote
Why there would be pixel skipping at 800 DPI LOL? It can feel more smooth as some sensors are listed to perform best at DPI e.g. 1800. Problem is good players won't usually play above 1000 DPI. Since I lowered DPI to 800 I got instantly better and improved and got Supreme in CS GO, I couldn't kill anything on 1600! 800 is very balanced DPI for Full HD. Up to 1600 I can yet understand, but above is too much! Tho still I find 800 DPI the best DPI!

So what about this? is it only scale that much for 8k hz?


+

Ok, after thinking about this and doing some basic calculations I can say that i was wrong and I completely don't understand why battle(non)sense's results are like this.
For example in his video @2:50 click latency difference between 125hz and 1000hz is around 4ms as expected, then for movement latency @7:30 the difference is ~15ms and I'm already confused.

So I have to assume that there is something in mice that increases latency for lower DPIs and polling rates beyond my understanding.

greenenemy wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2021, 11:17

Ok, after thinking about this and doing some basic calculations I can say that i was wrong and I completely don't understand why battle(non)sense's results are like this.
For example in his video @2:50 click latency difference between 125hz and 1000hz is around 4ms as expected, then for movement latency @7:30 the difference is ~15ms and I'm already confused.

So I have to assume that there is something in mice that increases latency for lower DPIs and polling rates beyond my understanding.

Do you think that huge difference is only because of 8k hz?
Some ppl says that 1600 dpi is sweet spot for 1k hz mouse but difference is very marginal, the best results are on 8k hz

greenenemy wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2021, 11:17

Ok, after thinking about this and doing some basic calculations I can say that i was wrong and I completely don't understand why battle(non)sense's results are like this.
For example in his video @2:50 click latency difference between 125hz and 1000hz is around 4ms as expected, then for movement latency @7:30 the difference is ~15ms and I'm already confused.

So I have to assume that there is something in mice that increases latency for lower DPIs and polling rates beyond my understanding.

V8K polls clicks at 8kHz regardless of the set frequency, G203 polls clicks at the set frequency. Also, the sensor isn't involved in clicking so DPI doesn't have an impact on the click latency.

forii wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2021, 12:26

Do you think that huge difference is only because of 8k hz?
Some ppl says that 1600 dpi is sweet spot for 1k hz mouse but difference is very marginal, the best results are on 8k hz

As I said his results for movement latency are weird and 8khz shouldn't make much difference. Avg lag for 1khz=0.5ms and for 8khz=0.0625ms.

Brainlet wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2021, 22:31

V8K polls clicks at 8kHz regardless of the set frequency, G203 polls clicks at the set frequency. Also, the sensor isn't involved in clicking so DPI doesn't have an impact on the click latency.

I was referring to G203 and you are right.

Average latency for 125hz is half of 8ms (1000ms/125).
Average for 1000hz is 0.5ms.
Difference in latency between 125hz mouse and 1000hz one should theoretically be 3.5ms and he got 3.38ms for click latency.

1. Base latency is the same for both as expected.
2. Difference for longest measurements should be 7ms(maximums for both, 8ms - 1ms), he got 6.38ms.

Now let's see results for movement latency.

Differences for Averages of each Hz are much higher than expected. How can there be difference of ~15ms between 125 and 1000?

When we look at base latency(shortest on the chart) it should be the same for all Hz.
Similar story with the longest results, way higher latency for 125hz than expected ~35ms difference compared to 1000hz, how?

I have to assume his tests are ok but the results are just weird now i want him to test WMO and some Philips twin eye sensors .

Just one question.

The higher the DPI, the faster you're mouse/movement in-game is.

Now for example, say 1600 DPI is too fast for you. You have 6/11, or a "proper" raw_input that doesn't interpolate.

Doesn't every game have a sensitivity slider that works identically to 6/11 slider in Win Control Panel?

I mean, if 1600 DPI is too fast, you put the slider down in-game.

And now that game basically behaves like 5/11, or 4/11.

Sure you're sending better "information" from your mouse, but your aim will suffer since the game is dropping some inputs.

Or if 1600 is too slow, you up the slider, get 7/11, and now your game is doubling every input received?

So unless 1600 DPI in this example is "just not your perfect match", there will always be a tradeoff - either you change 6/11 in CPL, or sensitivity slider in-game, meaning input skipping/doubling. I understand that usually in-game sensitivity slider is way more fine grained that Windows' 11 step slider, but still, there MUST be some skipping/doubling/interpolation.

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

2mg wrote: ↑

15 Apr 2021, 14:42

Just one question.

The higher the DPI, the faster you're mouse/movement in-game is.

Now for example, say 1600 DPI is too fast for you. You have 6/11, or a "proper" raw_input that doesn't interpolate.

Doesn't every game have a sensitivity slider that works identically to 6/11 slider in Win Control Panel?

I mean, if 1600 DPI is too fast, you put the slider down in-game.

And now that game basically behaves like 5/11, or 4/11.

Sure you're sending better "information" from your mouse, but your aim will suffer since the game is dropping some inputs.

Or if 1600 is too slow, you up the slider, get 7/11, and now your game is doubling every input received?

So unless 1600 DPI in this example is "just not your perfect match", there will always be a tradeoff - either you change 6/11 in CPL, or sensitivity slider in-game, meaning input skipping/doubling. I understand that usually in-game sensitivity slider is way more fine grained that Windows' 11 step slider, but still, there MUST be some skipping/doubling/interpolation.

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

You still choose your ingame sensitivity no matter what DPI your mouse is, anybody can get the same turn circle distance with any DPI by upping or lowering the game sens, you don't just load the game and play on its default setting.

The post isn't talking about actual mouse sens per pixel, its talking about mouse input lag/time to respond to your input.