Why does 30fps+BFI look as smooth as 60fps on my plasma

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pneu
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Re: Why does 30fps+BFI look as smooth as 60fps on my plasma

Post by pneu » 16 Aug 2024, 10:53

RealNC wrote:
16 Aug 2024, 09:51
It's how our brain works. Simple as that :) So you could call it an optical illusion if you wanted. Same with motion blur on sample and hold displays. There is no blur whatsoever. The image is crystal clear. But our brains generate blur unless frames are flashed in and out.
Yes but with sample and hold I know that happens because my eyes continue to track the object while the image is held stationary on screen and it's the movement of my eyes that creates the blur.

But the double image ...I don't know why my vision is blending the current UFO with the previous UFO. Because previous UFO already faded to black and disappeared so it shouldn't be persisting in my vision very much to create this massive frameblend of current+prev :?:

pneu
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Re: Why does 30fps+BFI look as smooth as 60fps on my plasma

Post by pneu » 17 Aug 2024, 03:19

It's got to be eye tracking related I would imagine?

Something to do with my eyes continuing to move to the right during the 2 duplicate flashes?

Because it can't be the duplicate blending with the new, because that's the transition that happens with 60fps which is free of double image.

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Re: Why does 30fps+BFI look as smooth as 60fps on my plasma

Post by RealNC » 17 Aug 2024, 05:32

pneu wrote:
16 Aug 2024, 10:53
Yes but with sample and hold I know that happens because my eyes continue to track the object while the image is held stationary on screen and it's the movement of my eyes that creates the blur.
Same with BFI/strobing. Your eyes keep tracking a blinking object, and since your eyes continuously move but the object blinks twice at the same position, your brain perceives two objects at two different positions (due to the movement of your eyes.)

If the object blinks twice you see two objects, if it blinks thrice you see three objects, etc.
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pneu
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Re: Why does 30fps+BFI look as smooth as 60fps on my plasma

Post by pneu » 17 Aug 2024, 08:29

Ok cool.

So my understanding of low frame rate "jitter" was kind of wrong all these years cause I have always used impulse displays my whole life and thought what I was seeing on 24/25/30fps was low frame rate jitter but actually its a frame blending effect caused by eye tracking a double impulsed image.

And in 50hz on the Samsung plasma which I use a lot for PAL DVDs I noticed I have double image even on the 50fps UFO. Now I know this is cause plasma double flashes 50hz to 100hz as a crude way of reducing flicker (for 25fps content it flashes four times — yikes!). So actually the 60hz mode on plasma is a much superior.

But there's still something bugging me — OLED reviewers like Vincent etc. say 24p on OLED looks too jittery due to the fast pixel response time. But OLED is sample and hold for the entire 41ms so it should look blurry not jittery. I had a pana OLED for a while and didn't have an issue with it looking jittery, it was too blurry.

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Re: Why does 30fps+BFI look as smooth as 60fps on my plasma

Post by RealNC » 17 Aug 2024, 08:42

pneu wrote:
17 Aug 2024, 08:29
But there's still something bugging me — OLED reviewers like Vincent etc. say 24p on OLED looks too jittery due to the fast pixel response time. But OLED is sample and hold for the entire 41ms so it should look blurry not jittery. I had a pana OLED for a while and didn't have an issue with it looking jittery, it was too blurry.
It looks a bit less blurry, and thus a bit more "framey" (I think "jittery" is the wrong word here.) Compared to LCD, that is. Pixel response is virtually zero, so that means there's no visible ghosting or overshoot whatsoever, making the individual frames during motion stand out more. LCD ghosting hides this a little bit. On the flip side, the lack of ghosting/overshoot makes the motion clarity a bit better. Compared to my IPS, 60FPS on the OLED looks more like what 70FPS looks like on the IPS.
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