Hi guys, i have set the gpu scaling in nvidia's driver to "display - no scaling" for the minium input lag. But when I create the VT custom res for games, for exemple 1280x960, it has no black bars anymore.
So, creating custom res in nvidia's control panel adds gpu scaling?
VT trick problem
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2805
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: VT trick problem
Play the game and check the monitor OSD.
If the osd says 1280x960, then its using that as a resolution instead of 1920x1080, in which case you need to use the monitor to set your scaling options in picture advanced->Display mode. It defaults to full screen (thus, no bars). You may want 1:1.
If the osd says 1280x960, then its using that as a resolution instead of 1920x1080, in which case you need to use the monitor to set your scaling options in picture advanced->Display mode. It defaults to full screen (thus, no bars). You may want 1:1.
Re: VT trick problem
I know what are you talking about but this is not the problem.Falkentyne wrote:Play the game and check the monitor OSD.
If the osd says 1280x960, then its using that as a resolution instead of 1920x1080, in which case you need to use the monitor to set your scaling options in picture advanced->Display mode. It defaults to full screen (thus, no bars). You may want 1:1.
My problem is with the scaling in the nvidia drivers, everybody knows that if you dont have set the scaling options to "display - no scaling" you will have much more input lag. If you have this option enabled and if you choose to play at any res different than monitor's native res you will see black bars on sides and up/down.
But as i said in the first post, creating a custom res in nvidia's control panel like 1280x960 it will be fullscreen and will avoid any kind of setting you have in scaling options.
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2805
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: VT trick problem
And as *I* said , the MONITOR is SCALING it to FULLSCREEN ITSELF because it sees 1280x960 as a native established resolution!!!
Not only did you ignore me, you made multiple accounts to ask the SAME Question (Masterotaku caught this).
It's the MONITOR that's scaling it to fullscreen. NOT THE DRIVERS.
So I'll say it AGAIN.
GO TO DISPLAY MODE and set it to 1:1.
Not only did you ignore me, you made multiple accounts to ask the SAME Question (Masterotaku caught this).
It's the MONITOR that's scaling it to fullscreen. NOT THE DRIVERS.
So I'll say it AGAIN.
GO TO DISPLAY MODE and set it to 1:1.
Re: VT trick problem
Even on the same monitor, using a custom resolution with black bars (1920x968 active pixels, 1920x1080 total pixels, don't ask why), via VGA they are there, but via DVI the monitor treats the resolution as 1920x968 and stretches it vertically. So as said, monitors are just as likely to be doing undesired scaling as the GPU. There's too damn much "intelligence" in things these days, with every component in the chain being a mini computer.
Re: VT trick problem
Thank you, now i've got it.Falkentyne wrote:And as *I* said , the MONITOR is SCALING it to FULLSCREEN ITSELF because it sees 1280x960 as a native established resolution!!!
First of all, I didn't ignore you, just didn't got what you were "really" talking to me. I though that you said "yes, the gpu scales and you have to do the re-scaling via osd to get blackbars", but know you explained very well with caps on, thank you.Falkentyne wrote:Not only did you ignore me, you made multiple accounts to ask the SAME Question (Masterotaku caught this).
It's the MONITOR that's scaling it to fullscreen. NOT THE DRIVERS.
So I'll say it AGAIN.
GO TO DISPLAY MODE and set it to 1:1.
And for the account thing...I made multiple accounts?? Wtf dude i wrote a post in OCN and nobody could get me an anwser, so i created an account here (i was watching this forum way way before with no need to create an account to solve my questions) and i made this post. Thank you for this great and charmful welcome to the BB forum.
Btw, i can set any scaling setting but no 1:1, i have a benq 2411z.
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2805
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: VT trick problem
Are aspect and 1:1 both greyed out?
If no, is aspect selectable but 1:1 not selectable (greyed out)?
Are you using Vertical total tweaks in windows for 1920x1080 @100hz or 120hz for benq blur reduction?
Also what resolution is reported under system->information in the OSD menu?
And finally, what game are you playing ? Is it a directx 9 or directX 10/11 game?
I need to know the answer to all of these before we continue.
If no, is aspect selectable but 1:1 not selectable (greyed out)?
Are you using Vertical total tweaks in windows for 1920x1080 @100hz or 120hz for benq blur reduction?
Also what resolution is reported under system->information in the OSD menu?
And finally, what game are you playing ? Is it a directx 9 or directX 10/11 game?
I need to know the answer to all of these before we continue.
Re: VT trick problem
Omg first of all, did you think that i'm the same person of this topic?? http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1611
If yes, then i understand why you were so mad with me hahahaha, but no, i'm not, this guy is asking why there's no "display" option in the nvidia's driver scaling option in w8.1. Ask chief to check our ip if you still don't believe me, i'm from spain.
Well let's get into it:
1. No, only 1:1 is greyed out, even at 1080p and 1280x960.
2. Yes, I'm using VT 1500 for 1920x1080 and 1280x960 both @120hz for benq Blur reduction enabled and disabled as well.
3. Osd reports 1920x1080 and 1280x960 both @60hz (I think this is normal).
4. I mostly play csgo and bf3/4 so yes i guess DX11.
Thanks.
If yes, then i understand why you were so mad with me hahahaha, but no, i'm not, this guy is asking why there's no "display" option in the nvidia's driver scaling option in w8.1. Ask chief to check our ip if you still don't believe me, i'm from spain.
Well let's get into it:
1. No, only 1:1 is greyed out, even at 1080p and 1280x960.
2. Yes, I'm using VT 1500 for 1920x1080 and 1280x960 both @120hz for benq Blur reduction enabled and disabled as well.
3. Osd reports 1920x1080 and 1280x960 both @60hz (I think this is normal).
4. I mostly play csgo and bf3/4 so yes i guess DX11.
Thanks.
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2805
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: VT trick problem
Hmm...
Ok, If the OSD shows 1280x960, 1:1 should be NOT be greyed out. Ever. That's just how the monitor works.
On AMD CCC/Ati, It's impossible for it to show 1280x960 in the OSD and 1:1 to be grayed out UNLESS you're running 144hz, which will always gray out BOTH aspect AND 1:1, or somehow you have 1280x960 as a detailed resolution WITH VT tweaks, and you cant use a standard resolution at 144hz in custom resolution utility, because 144hz can not use normal timings.
I don't know what would happen if you tried using 1280x960 as a DETAILED resolution with a VT tweak, though. I'm guessing that's what you did? I've only seen VT tweaks used for native res 1920x1080, so I'm surprised this even worked.
Ok first, there are two things you can do.
Either remove 1280x960@120hz as a DETAILED resolution in CRU and add it as a standard resolution (DX10/11 games will ignore the standard resolution, though, while CS:Go will use it just fine--CS go is a DX9 game), --or-- remove the VT tweak for 1280x960@120hz, and just add it as a detailed res *without* VT tweaks as below. If you're using the VT tweak, the monitor scaling options get messed up because it switches to 60hz pulse widths, and 1280x960 uses a MUCH lower vertical total than 1920x1080, so definitely don't use the tweak. I assume it would look something like:
1280 960
porch 88, 4
sync 44, 5
(if on a 24 inch screen, front porch should be 48,3 and Sync width should be 32,5)
Horizontal and vert total: leave them as whatever defaults it gives you
I'm guessing from a quick enter test that horizontal total should be 1560 and vertical total 1005. By comparison, the defaults for 1920x1080 are 2200 HT, 1125 VT for 27" screens, and 2080 HT and 1125 VT for 24" screens.
This should unbug the aspect settings and 1:1 should work now.
Having the detailed resolution for 1280x960 should get battlefield 4 to recognize it.
On AMD--and I do NOT know if this applies to Nvidia, but directX 10 and 11 games ignore all established and standard resolutions in CRU and will try to use the first refresh rate that is NOT listed on CRU, so 1280x960@refresh rate you want must be a detailed resolution for DX10/11.
You can run the experimental driver restarter on the CRU forum page, from toastyX, to avoid having to reboot.
For CS:Go, that's directX 9 game, and DX9 games will happily use the "Standard resolutions" list in CRU
So you can just add 1280x960@120 in the quick add. CS:Go will also use the detailed resolution, but adding it as a standard won't mess up anything.
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Ok, about the 1:1 setting being grayed out but ASPECT being ungrayed:
This is abnormal monitor behavior and aspect should NEVER be available with 1:1 being grayed out. This only happens if the monitor uses a different backlight pulse width than the refresh rate allows, and that is what happens when using a VT tweak. Whenever the monitor deviates too far from its normal timings (meaning you can use tweaks without affecting things, but only if the changed values are close to normal...e.g. Lightboost mode uses 1149 VT for 120hz, which doesn't bug the OSD, for instance), the monitor switches to 60hz backlight pulse widths. 1350 VT for example, will cause that, as the VT is drastically different from the default), The pulse durations for 60hz will be used for 120hz, which makes the screen use longer pulse durations than was originally intended for that resolution (e.g. 120hz will use up to 5ms at maximum, when it was intended to use 2.5ms at max--that actually has a risk of damaging the screen, as if you check, if you use a strobe duty of 030 (5ms in the blur busters utility), and then turn OFF blur reduction, you will see the screen actually -darken-, as the brightness will be higher (slightly) with BBR on than with BBR off. The reason this happens is because, to even get a half decent luminance, the voltage to the LEDs (current) is increased when you enable blur reduction, since strobing cuts the brightness by a huge amount. Since the voltage is increased, the pulse durations have to be shorter so the LEDs don't remain 'on' for a long time with higher current (persistence/pulse durations). But 120hz operation, since the refresh rate is higher and the panel is operating faster, is rated for a lower pulse duration than 60hz (2.5ms vs 5ms), so if you do NOT exceed 2.5ms at 120hz, there's no risk of damaging the LED's, UNLESS you exceed what they are rated for...e.g. going HIGHER than 2.5ms persistence at 120hz with the VT tweak.
Without the VT tweak, far right slider in the benq blur busters utility would actually give you 2.5ms persistence, not 5.0ms. The slider's numbers are based on the 1350 VT tweak being active. The max possible persistence without the VT tweak, at 120hz, is 2.5ms (030 strobe duty in the service menu). With the VT Tweak, 5.0ms is possible, but 5.0ms pulse widths is intended for 60hz, and the monitor reverts to 60hz pulse widths if the timings deviate too far from the defaults (1350 or 1500 vertical total).
There's a chart which shows how this works:
http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/BenQ_XL2411Z
But anyway, you're fine as long as you are using decent persistence values (don't go above 2.5ms at 100 and 120hz if using the tweaks).
Since the monitor switches to 60hz backlight pulse widths when using VT tweaks, it causes the OSD to report 60hz (since that's the backlight pulse width it's using ! check the chart and you will see that 5ms is the max persistence for 60hz). The problem is, this causes the "Display mode" scaling settings to get messed up and they no longer will work properly, as they are calibrated for NORMAL vertical totals! In order for the 1:1 to work at all, and the aspect and screen size settings to show the -correct (not squished as they are with VT tweaks) sizes, you need to remove the VT tweak for that refresh rate+resolution combo.
Even if you are using a VT tweak (1260 VT) at 60hz only, even THAT will bug out the display mode scaling settings! Because again, the scaling settings are based on a 1125 VT, so you will see 1:1 be grayed out and aspect be ungrayed and show a bizarre squished aspect size.
Ok, If the OSD shows 1280x960, 1:1 should be NOT be greyed out. Ever. That's just how the monitor works.
On AMD CCC/Ati, It's impossible for it to show 1280x960 in the OSD and 1:1 to be grayed out UNLESS you're running 144hz, which will always gray out BOTH aspect AND 1:1, or somehow you have 1280x960 as a detailed resolution WITH VT tweaks, and you cant use a standard resolution at 144hz in custom resolution utility, because 144hz can not use normal timings.
I don't know what would happen if you tried using 1280x960 as a DETAILED resolution with a VT tweak, though. I'm guessing that's what you did? I've only seen VT tweaks used for native res 1920x1080, so I'm surprised this even worked.
Ok first, there are two things you can do.
Either remove 1280x960@120hz as a DETAILED resolution in CRU and add it as a standard resolution (DX10/11 games will ignore the standard resolution, though, while CS:Go will use it just fine--CS go is a DX9 game), --or-- remove the VT tweak for 1280x960@120hz, and just add it as a detailed res *without* VT tweaks as below. If you're using the VT tweak, the monitor scaling options get messed up because it switches to 60hz pulse widths, and 1280x960 uses a MUCH lower vertical total than 1920x1080, so definitely don't use the tweak. I assume it would look something like:
1280 960
porch 88, 4
sync 44, 5
(if on a 24 inch screen, front porch should be 48,3 and Sync width should be 32,5)
Horizontal and vert total: leave them as whatever defaults it gives you
I'm guessing from a quick enter test that horizontal total should be 1560 and vertical total 1005. By comparison, the defaults for 1920x1080 are 2200 HT, 1125 VT for 27" screens, and 2080 HT and 1125 VT for 24" screens.
This should unbug the aspect settings and 1:1 should work now.
Having the detailed resolution for 1280x960 should get battlefield 4 to recognize it.
On AMD--and I do NOT know if this applies to Nvidia, but directX 10 and 11 games ignore all established and standard resolutions in CRU and will try to use the first refresh rate that is NOT listed on CRU, so 1280x960@refresh rate you want must be a detailed resolution for DX10/11.
You can run the experimental driver restarter on the CRU forum page, from toastyX, to avoid having to reboot.
For CS:Go, that's directX 9 game, and DX9 games will happily use the "Standard resolutions" list in CRU
So you can just add 1280x960@120 in the quick add. CS:Go will also use the detailed resolution, but adding it as a standard won't mess up anything.
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Ok, about the 1:1 setting being grayed out but ASPECT being ungrayed:
This is abnormal monitor behavior and aspect should NEVER be available with 1:1 being grayed out. This only happens if the monitor uses a different backlight pulse width than the refresh rate allows, and that is what happens when using a VT tweak. Whenever the monitor deviates too far from its normal timings (meaning you can use tweaks without affecting things, but only if the changed values are close to normal...e.g. Lightboost mode uses 1149 VT for 120hz, which doesn't bug the OSD, for instance), the monitor switches to 60hz backlight pulse widths. 1350 VT for example, will cause that, as the VT is drastically different from the default), The pulse durations for 60hz will be used for 120hz, which makes the screen use longer pulse durations than was originally intended for that resolution (e.g. 120hz will use up to 5ms at maximum, when it was intended to use 2.5ms at max--that actually has a risk of damaging the screen, as if you check, if you use a strobe duty of 030 (5ms in the blur busters utility), and then turn OFF blur reduction, you will see the screen actually -darken-, as the brightness will be higher (slightly) with BBR on than with BBR off. The reason this happens is because, to even get a half decent luminance, the voltage to the LEDs (current) is increased when you enable blur reduction, since strobing cuts the brightness by a huge amount. Since the voltage is increased, the pulse durations have to be shorter so the LEDs don't remain 'on' for a long time with higher current (persistence/pulse durations). But 120hz operation, since the refresh rate is higher and the panel is operating faster, is rated for a lower pulse duration than 60hz (2.5ms vs 5ms), so if you do NOT exceed 2.5ms at 120hz, there's no risk of damaging the LED's, UNLESS you exceed what they are rated for...e.g. going HIGHER than 2.5ms persistence at 120hz with the VT tweak.
Without the VT tweak, far right slider in the benq blur busters utility would actually give you 2.5ms persistence, not 5.0ms. The slider's numbers are based on the 1350 VT tweak being active. The max possible persistence without the VT tweak, at 120hz, is 2.5ms (030 strobe duty in the service menu). With the VT Tweak, 5.0ms is possible, but 5.0ms pulse widths is intended for 60hz, and the monitor reverts to 60hz pulse widths if the timings deviate too far from the defaults (1350 or 1500 vertical total).
There's a chart which shows how this works:
http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/BenQ_XL2411Z
But anyway, you're fine as long as you are using decent persistence values (don't go above 2.5ms at 100 and 120hz if using the tweaks).
Since the monitor switches to 60hz backlight pulse widths when using VT tweaks, it causes the OSD to report 60hz (since that's the backlight pulse width it's using ! check the chart and you will see that 5ms is the max persistence for 60hz). The problem is, this causes the "Display mode" scaling settings to get messed up and they no longer will work properly, as they are calibrated for NORMAL vertical totals! In order for the 1:1 to work at all, and the aspect and screen size settings to show the -correct (not squished as they are with VT tweaks) sizes, you need to remove the VT tweak for that refresh rate+resolution combo.
Even if you are using a VT tweak (1260 VT) at 60hz only, even THAT will bug out the display mode scaling settings! Because again, the scaling settings are based on a 1125 VT, so you will see 1:1 be grayed out and aspect be ungrayed and show a bizarre squished aspect size.
Re: VT trick problem
Wow, thank you so much for that didactic answer. Currently i'm not using the Blur reduction, is there any advantage to use vt tricks without using blur reduction, like lower input lag?
Btw, cru doesn't add any resolution (detailed or standard), i don't know why but it doesn't work (i have the latest version), and i know how to use it, it works with my iiyama CRT but with the benq 2411z doesn't. The only way to add resolutions is via Nvidia's control panel
What i do to get 1280x960 with vt 1500 is create a custom res in nvidia's control panel and in standard box i put "CVT-RB" (this matches to CRU's LCD-Standard) and then i put manual and in vertical total i set 1500.
Btw, cru doesn't add any resolution (detailed or standard), i don't know why but it doesn't work (i have the latest version), and i know how to use it, it works with my iiyama CRT but with the benq 2411z doesn't. The only way to add resolutions is via Nvidia's control panel
What i do to get 1280x960 with vt 1500 is create a custom res in nvidia's control panel and in standard box i put "CVT-RB" (this matches to CRU's LCD-Standard) and then i put manual and in vertical total i set 1500.