Reason most of you guys have input lag

[spkii]

Please don’t move this thread to the EMI section. The root cause of most people’s input lag discussed here is this issue, and the EMI section gets very little visibility


Edit
Do not take action before reading 2nd post written by ChristophSmaul1337 , I was refering to system earthing type in my country +some eu countries only . I didnt checked other countries.
Still problem is the same solution will vary depending on earthing system your distrubtor uses , and you cant consume/use those hf , or you cant store it , it gotta go to earth or you gotta block via xformer




High frequency fields in neutral wont drain to earth , due to neutral ground bond is high resistance or absent . Also if you try to do bonding somewhere else other than panel vs , you will create a loop and make it worse.


What happens

Neutral carries high-frequency switching noise from other loads
This noise appears as common-mode voltage between line ,neutral and earth
PSU does not see a perfectly stable input reference anymore
Input emi filter capacitors couple this noise into the PSU primary
Some of that energy passes through parasitic capacitance of the transformer
Small high-frequency currents reach the secondary side
DC rails gain wideband ripple and phase noise


Why this creates lag / micro-jitter

Cpu gpu ram and chipset depend on stable clock timing obviously.
Clock generators use PLLs referenced to supply rails
Supply noise => phase noise => clock edge timing variation
Timing variation changes when operations complete
Frame delivery intervals become inconsistent
Input sampling intervals become inconsistent

We get , uneven frametime spacing , micro-stutter without FPS drop , inconsistent input response , unstable motion smoothness



How to fix it

Neutral to ground bond must have low impedance , obviously ground there must have low impedance too.

or

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy , but this is hard to do and some xformers sold as low cap are not low cap or they got leakage at core vs. , but emi approving labs vs must use them so you can ask them where they buy it and ask them to make one for you. First solution is easier but they will produce same result ( actually xformer will be better but neglibile kinda)

Hi, I've been using an isolation transformer for a few weeks now, and it's improved, but it's not perfect. There are still times of day when it malfunctions. My house has a two-phase system (phase-phase-ground, no neutral). It's an old house, so I also installed the transformer in my playroom (to create a phase-ground-neutral system), but it still has the usual problems, just a little better. What do you recommend I do in this case? Thanks in advance.

Isolation xformer needs to fit specifications I told

How About this? Its xformer like you said:
https://en.homecinesolutions.fr/p/28404 ... -max-black

[amorou]

Please don’t move this thread to the EMI section. The root cause of most people’s input lag discussed here is this issue, and the EMI section gets very little visibility


Edit
Do not take action before reading 2nd post written by ChristophSmaul1337 , I was refering to system earthing type in my country +some eu countries only . I didnt checked other countries.
Still problem is the same solution will vary depending on earthing system your distrubtor uses , and you cant consume/use those hf , or you cant store it , it gotta go to earth or you gotta block via xformer




High frequency fields in neutral wont drain to earth , due to neutral ground bond is high resistance or absent . Also if you try to do bonding somewhere else other than panel vs , you will create a loop and make it worse.


What happens

Neutral carries high-frequency switching noise from other loads
This noise appears as common-mode voltage between line ,neutral and earth
PSU does not see a perfectly stable input reference anymore
Input emi filter capacitors couple this noise into the PSU primary
Some of that energy passes through parasitic capacitance of the transformer
Small high-frequency currents reach the secondary side
DC rails gain wideband ripple and phase noise


Why this creates lag / micro-jitter

Cpu gpu ram and chipset depend on stable clock timing obviously.
Clock generators use PLLs referenced to supply rails
Supply noise => phase noise => clock edge timing variation
Timing variation changes when operations complete
Frame delivery intervals become inconsistent
Input sampling intervals become inconsistent

We get , uneven frametime spacing , micro-stutter without FPS drop , inconsistent input response , unstable motion smoothness



How to fix it

Neutral to ground bond must have low impedance , obviously ground there must have low impedance too.

or

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy , but this is hard to do and some xformers sold as low cap are not low cap or they got leakage at core vs. , but emi approving labs vs must use them so you can ask them where they buy it and ask them to make one for you. First solution is easier but they will produce same result ( actually xformer will be better but neglibile kinda)

Hi, I've been using an isolation transformer for a few weeks now, and it's improved, but it's not perfect. There are still times of day when it malfunctions. My house has a two-phase system (phase-phase-ground, no neutral). It's an old house, so I also installed the transformer in my playroom (to create a phase-ground-neutral system), but it still has the usual problems, just a little better. What do you recommend I do in this case? Thanks in advance.

Isolation xformer needs to fit specifications I told

How About this? Its xformer like you said:
https://en.homecinesolutions.fr/p/28404 ... -max-black

Its not at all , this will pass all the hf like a solid wire connection

[spkii]

Hi, I've been using an isolation transformer for a few weeks now, and it's improved, but it's not perfect. There are still times of day when it malfunctions. My house has a two-phase system (phase-phase-ground, no neutral). It's an old house, so I also installed the transformer in my playroom (to create a phase-ground-neutral system), but it still has the usual problems, just a little better. What do you recommend I do in this case? Thanks in advance.

Isolation xformer needs to fit specifications I told

How About this? Its xformer like you said:
https://en.homecinesolutions.fr/p/28404 ... -max-black

Its not at all , this will pass all the hf like a solid wire connection

It has an electrostatic shield inside that blocks HF, and it also acts as a passive low-pass filter

[issawm]

“ Over the years, the same pattern has happened on multiple different PCs, including brand-new ones: the systems are fully capable of feeling normal at first, proving the hardware can provide the mouse feel you’re looking for. Then, after Windows updates or related software changes, the mouse begins to feel floaty again. Because this has repeated across multiple systems, it’s unlikely to be bad hardware or bad luck. The more likely explanation is that a software, driver, firmware, or Windows configuration change is consistently altering how the system behaves after setup. The goal is to identify the specific change that happens between the system feeling normal and it becoming floaty.”

I’ve spent $500 on ChatGPT over the course of 3 years. Yet no leads or anything remotely close and this is all I got in the end.. Give me pointers man

[Racord]

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy

You're missing one crucial point: after the isolation transformer, you won't have a phase and neutral; you'll have two phases floating relative to each other. To create a neutral, it is necessary to ground one of the phases, but not to the common house ground, which is full of interference, but to its own low-impedance ground. Also, after such a connection, a RCD is needed.

[amorou]

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy

You're missing one crucial point: after the isolation transformer, you won't have a phase and neutral; you'll have two phases floating relative to each other. To create a neutral, it is necessary to ground one of the phases, but not to the common house ground, which is full of interference, but to its own low-impedance ground. Also, after such a connection, a RCD is needed.

You can just use floating secondarys , power will be so clean grounded neutral is not necessary

If you have dedicated grounding , grounding screen between windings would be nice but even without it it gonna be superb

[MakaTyson]

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy

You're missing one crucial point: after the isolation transformer, you won't have a phase and neutral; you'll have two phases floating relative to each other. To create a neutral, it is necessary to ground one of the phases, but not to the common house ground, which is full of interference, but to its own low-impedance ground. Also, after such a connection, a RCD is needed.

You can just use floating secondarys , power will be so clean grounded neutral is not necessary

If you have dedicated grounding , grounding screen between windings would be nice but even without it it gonna be superb

How can I get in touch with you? I wanted to ask you a couple of questions about isolation transformers. Unfortunately, since I only recently registered, I’m unable to send private messages.

[Racord]

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy

You're missing one crucial point: after the isolation transformer, you won't have a phase and neutral; you'll have two phases floating relative to each other. To create a neutral, it is necessary to ground one of the phases, but not to the common house ground, which is full of interference, but to its own low-impedance ground. Also, after such a connection, a RCD is needed.

You can just use floating secondarys , power will be so clean grounded neutral is not necessary

If you have dedicated grounding , grounding screen between windings would be nice but even without it it gonna be superb

The transformer is great at cutting out external grid noise, but there is a theory that we might be missing another potential factor for input lag — the noise generated by the PC itself. The PSU and VRMs can create significant high-frequency noise, and the PSU's Y-capacitors dump it straight onto the chassis.

With a floating secondary, this HF noise simply has no low-impedance return path back to the transformer coil. Because of this, it's highly possible that the signal ground potential could start to ring, which might affect USB stability and potentially cause micro-jitter.

By grounding one leg of the secondary, we create a local TN-S and give the Y-capacitors a short return path. In theory, this allows the noise to close instantly inside the transformer instead of radiating through DisplayPort cables and shields. An interwinding shield is great for solving external interference, but it probably won't close the PSU's internal loop.

[Racord]

In this sense, this approach looks like a potentially ideal, localized solution to the problem. We are trying to obtain a clean, low-impedance neutral locally, right at the workstation, without affecting the rest of the house grid or requiring global overhauls. There is no large-scale intervention into the house-wide system, and no dependence on the condition of the power lines outside or any issues caused by neighbors.

This entire concept essentially becomes autonomous and hinges on just one critical factor: the quality and impedance of our own dedicated grounding. If we manage to make this loop truly low-impedance, we get an isolated working zone where HF noise has the best conditions for drainage, which in theory should minimize its impact on peripheral stability.

[Slender]

Isolation transformer with low interwinding capacitiy

You're missing one crucial point: after the isolation transformer, you won't have a phase and neutral; you'll have two phases floating relative to each other. To create a neutral, it is necessary to ground one of the phases, but not to the common house ground, which is full of interference, but to its own low-impedance ground. Also, after such a connection, a RCD is needed.

You can just use floating secondarys , power will be so clean grounded neutral is not necessary

If you have dedicated grounding , grounding screen between windings would be nice but even without it it gonna be superb

The transformer is great at cutting out external grid noise, but there is a theory that we might be missing another potential factor for input lag — the noise generated by the PC itself. The PSU and VRMs can create significant high-frequency noise, and the PSU's Y-capacitors dump it straight onto the chassis.

With a floating secondary, this HF noise simply has no low-impedance return path back to the transformer coil. Because of this, it's highly possible that the signal ground potential could start to ring, which might affect USB stability and potentially cause micro-jitter.

By grounding one leg of the secondary, we create a local TN-S and give the Y-capacitors a short return path. In theory, this allows the noise to close instantly inside the transformer instead of radiating through DisplayPort cables and shields. An interwinding shield is great for solving external interference, but it probably won't close the PSU's internal loop.

I know—and it is a fact—that when the PC is in the right location, grounding has no effect on the problem we are all experiencing. In the right location, the computer operates correctly whether a 2-wire or 3-wire connection is used. I have tested around 10 power supplies recently; I even completely removed the Y2 capacitors and fully rebuilt the input and output filters. I did everything possible to ensure the power supply wasn't the cause of this strange issue. The only fix right now is to find a location where your PC works perfectly—that could be just a meter away or a thousand kilometers away.