Using a reshade black frame insertion shader fx?

[Chief Blur Buster]

Sure, glad to help. What exactly isn't working with fullscreen exclusive games? Both desktopbfi and shader utilites should work.

DesktopBFI doesn't work in FSE. If you think so, you're actually really running in borderless windowed mode or a FSE-emulation mode.

It's possible to intercept FSE API calls (whether by driver or utility) and turn them into borderless windowed, while the application still think it's running in FSE. In that mode, DesktopBFI would work, but Windows is not actually running it in a native FSE mode.

[RealNC]

It's possible to intercept FSE API calls (whether by driver or utility) and turn them into borderless windowed, while the application still think it's running in FSE. In that mode, DesktopBFI would work, but Windows is not actually running it in a native FSE mode.

SpecialK can do that with its "fake fullscreen mode" option. It is quite compatible, but some games refuse to run with that.

(It will also promote the game's frame presentation mode to use a direct flip model, making windowed mode not suffer any performance or latency penalties compared to exclusive fullscreen.)

[Chief Blur Buster]

I hope SpecialK or Reshade manages to architecture itself to support subframe processors that I've been talking about for years. Earlier was multi-refresh BFI, now today it's CRT simulator that I released at www.blurbusters.com/crt -- and tomorrow it'll be stuff like Plasma TV Simulator / Adjustable LCD GtG on OLED / High Quality LCD Overdrive Algorithms / etc.

I don't do the driver programming, I do the algorithms, please help Blur Busters by getting the ecosystem ready for subrefresh processors (including removal of native:simulated ratios, I can do CRT-VRR in the future too). Simulated VRR + Simulated CRT like a software based GSYNC Pulsar, to any fixed-Hz OLED.[/]

Code: Select all

Select Simulated Display:   [CRT | Plasma | Slow LCD | Fast LCD | DLP | 35mm Projector | Others...]
Adjust Simulted Settings    [Phosphor Speed Settings>> | GtG Speed Settings>> | Subfield Dither Settings >>]
Select Simulated Hz:        24Hz [||||||||||||||-----------------------------------------------] 1000Hz
Enable Simulated VRR:       [Off | On]

Given enough brute Hz, and access to linear colorspace, and a beautifully generic unspent-photons Talbot Plateau energy buffer approach, this becomes possible.

When I turn off the generic crappy chinese LCD GtG algorithms (obsolete 17x17 OD LUTs, ugh), and enable a superior LCD GtG overdrive in a GPU shader, it suddenly becomes almost as good as a GSYNC monitor's overdrive! I'll eventually opensource this within a year or two. But it can only happen on the first refresh cycle after a new frame (regardless of content framerate).

Yeah, that inhouse experiment works but is not VRR compatible, but at least I can beat a cheap monitor's overdrive, that you simply turn off the montior overdrive, and use my shader overdrive instead. Might rob some % of your GPU and lower frame rates, but motion purists won't care during 60fps-locked material and/or movie playback and/or things like just browser / desktop scrolling (where bad LCD overdrive can turn into muddy mess).

Don't worry (to NVIDIA employees -- I know you all love me) -- NVIDIA is still far ahead (gamma-corrected overdrive during VRR and strobing? Oh, that's Ph.D graduate math; I'll focus on easier stuff like plasma subfields and VRR-CRT. Yes, making my own software-based GSYNC Pulsar is easier than VRR LCD overdrive)

Yep. Thanks to generic brute Hz + shaders. Plasma algorithms formerly in FPGA/firmware can now be done in shader on OLEDs too, and I can slow down OLED GtG optionally for 24fps Netflix to look better.

Make it happen, you software developers, you operating system developers, you driver developers.

Get ready for my temporal filters that gradually comes out one by one over 2025-2030s!

Refresh Cycle Shaders Please -- full stop -- Independent of content framerate.

Not just addressing anyone in particular (RealNC can spread the gospel around the channels like Discord). The software ecosystem is falling behind what is confirmed possible in the lab.

Even box-in-middles such as Retrotink is beginning to port my algorithms (the CRT simulator is coming to Retrotink 4K, the Pro edition, not the CE edition).

The Open Source Display Revolution beckons: BYOA (Bring Your Own Algorithm). I've mostly given up trying to sell to stubborn display makers who cheap out and don't implement my Blur Busters Approved stringent rules. My revenues are coming from contracts (TestUFO & Tester related) as spinoffs anyway.

[RealNC]

I hope SpecialK or Reshade manages to architecture itself to support subframe processors that I've been talking about for years.

Right now it's in Microsoft's hands. The initial release of composition swapchains does not work with DX12. SpecialK's dev said the only thing he's waiting on is DX12 support. When MS releases that, he can work on actually good BFI support in SK, rather than the current implementation that flickers with every minor frame time spike.

[Chief Blur Buster]

I hope SpecialK or Reshade manages to architecture itself to support subframe processors that I've been talking about for years.

Right now it's in Microsoft's hands. The initial release of composition swapchains does not work with DX12. SpecialK's dev said the only thing he's waiting on is DX12 support. When MS releases that, he can work on actually good BFI support in SK, rather than the current implementation that flickers with every minor frame time spike.

Linux it is, if need be.

I am talking to Valve. I have a response.

They believe they can update SteamOS's existing hook to do it regardless of whether content is static.

If CRT simulator comes to SteamOS, thank me.

[joris-truly]

Quick question – not sure if this is the right thread.

I've been using the DesktopBFI tool to test BFI and have had a great experience with it. I discovered the temporary burn-in but learned it goes away, so that's fine.

BUT, after choosing not to use BFI as the standard for playing games, all of a sudden, my display is experiencing severe VRR flicker, and I'm not sure how to fix it.

I did a clean DDU driver uninstall and reset my monitor to factory settings, but the VRR flicker is still persistent. The monitor is an AOC GAMING Q27G4XF, which I recently got, and I'm thinking of RMA'ing it. Not sure what's causing this, but I'm admittedly a bit more hesitant to ever try BFI on a possible new monitor because of this experience.

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Guffman]

Sorry for the potential necrosis here, but I see this thread isn't locked and is exactly the discussion I'm looking for... I have a 144Hz OLED TV that I'm trying to use software-BFI with, but not sure where to start or what's a viable path. I have a Ryzen 9900X from AMD for a CPU and an EVGA RTX 3080 Ti for a GPU, but I have games that are locked, even on PC, at 60 fps, though even then the framerates/times can be stuttery and inconsistent.

Additionally, my primary experimentation has been around using capture software to source 60Hz video game console signals and interpolate them to 144Hz using things like Lossless Scaling (it's my understanding that I currently have no way to use more advanced frame interpolation, at least not yet). I can use OBS Studio and an Elgato 4K60 Pro (lowest latency capture card I could find that could do HDMI 2.0 capture with HDR and 5.1 surround) to output a D3D11 capture and as long as I keep other post-processing modest, I can maintain a playable level of latency doing this (I mostly play single-player RPGs so competitive gaming down to the ms is irrelevant to me). I've even been tinkering with adding Reshade effects on top of OBS, so I have a fairly nice HDR + 144Hz experience playing console games that were never meant to do these things; looking at you, Nintendo!

The tradeoff is obviously that this kind of frame interpolation can get real muddy and smeary pretty fast, so my next crackpot idea for this post-processing layercake from hell is to implement some kind of BFI to claw back some motion clarity. I've been trying Shaderbeam and the different CRT-Royale/Standard shader effects in Reshade, but I can't seem to get anything to run stably without becoming a flickery mess, and even more intolerably an inconsistent one at that. I thought this might be from my display being set to 143.99 Hz instead of a nice even integer, but apparently this is completely normal for "144 Hz" timing so my assumption is that this is exactly what these frame-based BFI applications are looking for.

So I guess my questions are as follows:

1.) Is 144Hz worth running over 120Hz? Is there greater compatibility and/or stability with 120Hz/60fps BFI versus 144Hz/72fps? I've always been under the impression that the more frames you have to throw at motion clarity techniques, the better the results, but maybe sticking with 120hz final output with 60fps BFI would be better or more stable math-wise?

2.) Is any of this even viable given my limit to 144Hz? I've used CRTs and am lucky/proud enough to keep an FW900 on my computer desk, so most of the point has been to replicate that glory with a big, modern TV in a home theater kind of setup rather than being confined to a desktop. Should I give up until 240Hz OLEDs and other more premium display technologies become cheaper and more mature, whenever that might happen?

3.) If I did get a "dumb" BFI to work where every other frame is strobed black, could it still work with the frame interpolation in any way? Lossless Scaling uses DXGI or WGC for capture options, and it can also apply a flat frame multiplier to take a 60Hz source to 120, 180, etc. I've tried a few times now to run things like Shaderbeam on top of Lossless Scaling's output, but have had mixed results regarding compatibility/functionality, so I'm wondering if I ultimately have to compromise between either the frame gen working or the BFI working. Maybe they interfere with each other...?

4.) I've seen conflicting info on Vsync, especially VRR - should it be enabled or not? I've seen posts saying VRR should always be enabled to ensure a proper frametime sync, but sometimes it seems to be referring to Vsync in general and not VRR, while other posts say to never leave VRR activated since you want the shaders/effects to easily sync up with the monitor's basic or maximum refresh rate. Then there are in-app settings; if I want to activate Vsync across the board on a driver level (Nvidia Control Panel/App), should I also toggle it on in various applcations like Reshade, ShaderGlass/Beam, Lossless Scaling, etc.?

That aside, just wanted to make a note that I don't post here often, but this website is a goldmine to me since I find all this fascinating and I love learning about all of it. Thank you very much for maintaining and updating this place, as well as keeping it a bastion of good conversation for all our blur-busting needs!

[Chief Blur Buster]

Great questions. This is a very "Chief Blur Buster" quality question, as I prefer to talk about blur busting than other topics. I rarely have time to reply to the forums, but when I do -- this is the correct question to ask if my eyeballs are in the right place at the right time.

1.) Is 144Hz worth running over 120Hz? Is there greater compatibility and/or stability with 120Hz/60fps BFI versus 144Hz/72fps? I've always been under the impression that the more frames you have to throw at motion clarity techniques, the better the results, but maybe sticking with 120hz final output with 60fps BFI would be better or more stable math-wise?

It's recommended to use 120Hz over 144Hz if you're doing external 60fps content. Much better looking.

While CRT simulator theoretically can run at non-divisible refresh rates, it works better at large ratios (e.g. 60:280 for 60fps at 280Hz, than 60:144 for 60fps at 144Hz). You have temporal nyquist artifacts (aka flicker), much like the spatial blur of scaling 640x480 -> 650x490 instead of 640x480 -> 1920x1080. Brute spatial/temporal scaling for the win! Same metaphor, same problem. Time dimension instead of space dimension, really.

2.) Is any of this even viable given my limit to 144Hz? I've used CRTs and am lucky/proud enough to keep an FW900 on my computer desk, so most of the point has been to replicate that glory with a big, modern TV in a home theater kind of setup rather than being confined to a desktop. Should I give up until 240Hz OLEDs and other more premium display technologies become cheaper and more mature, whenever that might happen?

Motion clarity progressively becomes clearer with maximum BFI:
60fps + (max BFI and/or framegen) at 120Hz = 50% less motion blur
60fps + (max BFI and/or framegen) at 240Hz = 75% less motion blur
60fps + (max BFI and/or framegen) at 480Hz = 87.5% less motion blur
Also, 60fps->120fps interpolation has less lag when output to a 240Hz desktop display than a 120Hz-144Hz desktop display.

Being that said, good framegen all the way (e.g. NVIDIA DLSS 4.5 doing 240fps in CP2077 on a 240Hz OLED) looks better to my eyes more than 90% of the time than doing BFI. So if I had a choice of fantastic framegen (superior to interpolation) or compromises-filled BFI, in a non-latency-critical situation, it is now tempting to use framegen instead. But if you're using VSYNC locked framerates (VSYNC ON 60fps CP2077), that will definitely look clearer motion on your FW900. But some interpolation software (and older DLSS/FSR modes) doesn't let you interpolate 60fps->240fps, and you can only interpolate 60fps->120fps. That's where BFI can help get motion clarity all the way to 240fps. See my answer to the question on combining interpolation and BFI by budgetting your maxHz.

So you don't *need* maxFPS to benefit from maxHz; it can simply help reduce your 60fps lag in the first place too!

If you have the holy grail of a FW900 on your desk, you'll definitely appreciate this. Alas, I understand OLED TVs don't have 240Hz yet, but you can at least get a 240Hz monitor and begin playing/tweaking with it, so your computer is ready when 240Hz TVs arrive.

3.) If I did get a "dumb" BFI to work where every other frame is strobed black, could it still work with the frame interpolation in any way? Lossless Scaling uses DXGI or WGC for capture options, and it can also apply a flat frame multiplier to take a 60Hz source to 120, 180, etc. I've tried a few times now to run things like Shaderbeam on top of Lossless Scaling's output, but have had mixed results regarding compatibility/functionality, so I'm wondering if I ultimately have to compromise between either the frame gen working or the BFI working. Maybe they interfere with each other...?

Yes, you can combine BFI/CRT with framegen, but you must do it staged properly.

Use interpolation to go 60fps->120fps.
Use BFI to go 120fps->240fps.

It looks amazing. 75% less motion blur with just 2x framegen, due 50% blurbust via framegen layering on 50% blurbust via BFI.

Needless to say, you need more Hz-room for a staged approach. Treat your refresh rate as a blur busting budget. Split carefully between blackframe-based approach and framegen-based approach.

Educate yourself on BFI duty cycles versus motion blur: www.testufo.com/blackframes "try on your 144 before buy 240 or 480"

4.) I've seen conflicting info on Vsync, especially VRR - should it be enabled or not? I've seen posts saying VRR should always be enabled to ensure a proper frametime sync, but sometimes it seems to be referring to Vsync in general and not VRR, while other posts say to never leave VRR activated since you want the shaders/effects to easily sync up with the monitor's basic or maximum refresh rate. Then there are in-app settings; if I want to activate Vsync across the board on a driver level (Nvidia Control Panel/App), should I also toggle it on in various applcations like Reshade, ShaderGlass/Beam, Lossless Scaling, etc.?

It's possible to do VRR+BFI but it is MUCH harder (100x harder) to get stable if you're using software BFI. A 0.8ms variance on 8ms frametimes via software BFI = 10% flicker. Software is not perfectly accurate since VRR keeps Present()-to-photons as exact-time-relative as possible, so software jitter = flicker.

Retrotink 4K has BFI+VRR perfectly stable because it's using an FPGA and it can time the VRR frametimes perfectly zero-variance.

Instead, you need help from the one-dimensional grid snapping effect of VSYNC, much more forgiving (8.3ms safety margin for VSYNC ON at 120Hz, instead of being vulnerable flicker from sub-millisecond software jitter). VSYNC ON is much more forgiving on de-flickering software BFI.

Use high CPU/GPU priority for ShaderBeam, low CPU/GPU priority for game

But even so, you still need to raise ShaderBeam priority and lower game priority.

Framedrop in game = looks like a normal framedrop on CRT
Framedrop in CRT simulator = looks like a malfunctioning CRT

Therefore CPU/GPU priority on game = lower than ShaderBeam priority.

Even better: Use two GPUs. Dust off your old GPU in your closet, put that as your 2nd ShaderBeam-only GPU in your computer, and call it a day. You can mix GPUs (AMD, NVIDIA, Intel), give the more powerful GPU to the game, and less powerful GPU to ShaderBeam. Make sure you have enough bus bandwidth between the slots for the frame blitting every refresh cycle, tho: ShaderBeam is bus-bandwidth-heavy.

That aside, just wanted to make a note that I don't post here often, but this website is a goldmine to me since I find all this fascinating and I love learning about all of it. Thank you very much for maintaining and updating this place, as well as keeping it a bastion of good conversation for all our blur-busting needs!

You are welcome.

1. Fix your integer divisor. Use 120Hz, not 144Hz, for external 60fps content.
2. Fix your CPU/GPU process priorities for ShaderBeam and your game. If something framedrops, make it the game not ShaderBeam
3. If you manage to stabilize it, you'll probably get another good upgrade if you buy a 240Hz OLED if you want more software blur busting options, or combining layered approaches. I see generic 240Hz desktop OLEDs on sale for cheap now.

Hope this helps your experimenting! Also, you can use utilities like ToastyX or the old NVIDIA Control Panel to create custom refresh rate that are not supported by your TV.