Display lag or something else?

[ablemor]

I have a 9800X3D and an X670E Hero, and I'm getting 80ns—nothing happens; RAM speed has nothing to do with this problem.

[kyube]

My PC specs: Ryzen 7 5700X3D, GTX 1660, 2x8GB 3200MHz (16-17-17-17), and a Samsung Odyssey G4 240Hz monitor. I've actually found complaints online about this specific monitor having very high input lag.

List out your entire system & peripherals & what specific software settings you've changed.
This is insufficient information for any kind of troubleshooting.

I have a 9800X3D and an X670E Hero, and I'm getting 80ns—nothing happens; RAM speed has nothing to do with this problem.

0.) If you think "RAM Speed" has nothing to do with "this problem" (which is entirely based on HW choices users are doing and lack of knowledge in software tuning), then you're ignorant on how computer systems work.
1.) You're already severely lagging by using a ALC4080-based motherboard.
2.) "This problem" was never defined by anyone in these forums and it's all related to people being lazy & at this point, incapable to use basic tools to evaluate "the problem".

You know that memory latency has nothing to do with peripheral input lag right? Even if it did you would not be able to tell because no human being is able to feel a 10 nanosecond difference

You have no idea how computer system performance works if you think chasing lower DRAM latency is irrelevant to decreasing total system latency or that it's somehow "impossible to tell".
It's not +-10ns flat to the total system latency.
Every single cache miss (which is more prevalent on <32MiB CPUs & unoptimized games) requires your system to fetch data from DRAM, which is a expensive operation.
You can evaluate your L3 cache hit rate by using CapFrameX's new feature. You want to look at the complement value (miss rate = 1 - hit rate)
The miss rate is the amount of times in a specific time interval your CPU had to go through to DRAM or the worst case scenario, to your secondary/auxilliary memory (storage devices)
The deeper your CPU has to go, the higher the jitter in-game.

A 1ns difference is akin to 0,3m (30cm) in copper trace travel distance, as per Grace Hopper's analogy
1µs is akin to 300m in reducing copper trace travel distance.

It's a massive difference to your system.
Every single piece of software (OS, DRAM, games) relies on your DRAM R/W latency being as low as architecturally possible.

No, AIDA64 isn't a good way to evaluate DRAM R/W latency as it's a unloaded latency test.
Use Intel's Memory Latency Checker (IMLC, CLI version), microbenchmarksgui (clamchowder) or RamTestPro (RTP) Benchmark if you want a more valid test for both CPU platforms.

I still cannot believe that the moderation on these forums hasn't taken care of these type of FUD threads thus far.

[adrian_13371]

My PC specs: Ryzen 7 5700X3D, GTX 1660, 2x8GB 3200MHz (16-17-17-17), and a Samsung Odyssey G4 240Hz monitor. I've actually found complaints online about this specific monitor having very high input lag.

List out your entire system & peripherals & what specific software settings you've changed.
This is insufficient information for any kind of troubleshooting.

I have a 9800X3D and an X670E Hero, and I'm getting 80ns—nothing happens; RAM speed has nothing to do with this problem.

0.) If you think "RAM Speed" has nothing to do with "this problem" (which is entirely based on HW choices users are doing and lack of knowledge in software tuning), then you're ignorant on how computer systems work.
1.) You're already severely lagging by using a ALC4080-based motherboard.
2.) "This problem" was never defined by anyone in these forums and it's all related to people being lazy & at this point, incapable to use basic tools to evaluate "the problem".

You know that memory latency has nothing to do with peripheral input lag right? Even if it did you would not be able to tell because no human being is able to feel a 10 nanosecond difference

You have no idea how computer system performance works if you think chasing lower DRAM latency is irrelevant to decreasing total system latency or that it's somehow "impossible to tell".
It's not +-10ns flat to the total system latency.
Every single cache miss (which is more prevalent on <32MiB CPUs & unoptimized games) requires your system to fetch data from DRAM, which is a expensive operation.
You can evaluate your L3 cache hit rate by using CapFrameX's new feature. You want to look at the complement value (miss rate = 1 - hit rate)
The miss rate is the amount of times in a specific time interval your CPU had to go through to DRAM or the worst case scenario, to your secondary/auxilliary memory (storage devices)
The deeper your CPU has to go, the higher the jitter in-game.

A 1ns difference is akin to 0,3m (30cm) in copper trace travel distance, as per Grace Hopper's analogy
1µs is akin to 300m in reducing copper trace travel distance.

It's a massive difference to your system.
Every single piece of software (OS, DRAM, games) relies on your DRAM R/W latency being as low as architecturally possible.

No, AIDA64 isn't a good way to evaluate DRAM R/W latency as it's a unloaded latency test.
Use Intel's Memory Latency Checker (IMLC, CLI version), microbenchmarksgui (clamchowder) or RamTestPro (RTP) Benchmark if you want a more valid test for both CPU platforms.

I still cannot believe that the moderation on these forums hasn't taken care of these type of FUD threads thus far.

So you're saying that if we had 2 same spec PC's with a game running at 120fps the pc with a 60ns memory latency would have measurably lower input lag than the pc with 70ns memory latency?
Edit:
And how come the input latency is basically the same in this test? Isn't the memory latency much lower on intel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WYIlhzE72s&t=624s

[Erling1]

So, I've run into a major issue. For a year now, if not more, I’ve had terrible hit registration.
I've tried three different internet providers, and it's the exact same everywhere.
Even on the shooting range, I shoot a bot and it dies with a delay—I manage to look away, and only after that does the bot actually die. I just don't understand how to explain this.

There have been rare instances when I turned on my PC and everything felt super smooth and great; even in really bad games I’d drop 120 ADR, whereas normally it goes up to 200+. But when hitreg is dead and there's no smoothness, every single game yields at most 70 ADR. This happens in many games, and I have no idea what's causing it.

My PC specs: Ryzen 7 5700X3D, GTX 1660, 2x8GB 3200MHz (16-17-17-17), and a Samsung Odyssey G4 240Hz monitor. I've actually found complaints online about this specific monitor having very high input lag.

What on earth could be going on? I'm so exhausted by all of this. I just want to log in and enjoy the game, but instead, there's zero smoothness and the hit registration is absolute garbage.

I’m seriously considering swapping my monitor for an AOC to start with, since it genuinely might be the monitor's fault, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I attached a video showing the hitreg issue: the first bot dies with a delay after I've already dragged my crosshair away, while the second one is a bit smoother. Don't even get me started on ranked—sometimes when moving, it's literally impossible to kill anyone because there's just zero hit registration.
I tried using GearUP and ExitLag, but it's completely useless. When I stream to Discord, people say everything looks normal on their end, but on my screen I see very severe input lag / delay. I've attached an example video
And imagine this is just on bots, but when players are moving it's simply impossible to kill anyone, feels like I'm catching some kind of desync
I even tried playing on a 60Hz monitor and noticed zero difference in input lag, maybe even felt slightly better aside from the motion blur. My peak in Valorant is 500 RR, I never drop below Immortal, but the feeling of delay is extremely strong.
I even changed the wiring and grounding, and it's still no use, help pls

So it's probably not your network. Your bufferbloat score is perfect.

I actually have a AMD Zen 3 system as well, and from personal experience these platforms are VERY ram sensitive.

AMD ram latency is higher than Intel, so you actually need to invest in a high quality RAM.

Im running a 5950x with G skill trident z Royal Elite at 3600 cl 14-14-14-34 at 1.45V.

Even with higher frequency and lowest timings (these timings are best quality B die) i still get a memory latency of 64 ns.

64ns is nothing special, it's just acceptable. With that my input lag is playable.

I'm assuming your Aida64 memory latency would be around 70ns? Let me know cause when mine was closer to 70 the games were hella unresponsive, even though the hit reg was ok

My latency numbers were 68–70 ns, and I couldn't reach 3600 MHz—maybe if I had raised the voltage higher, but I was too scared to, so I only managed to get 16-17-17-17-34-51 at 3200 MHz, whereas the stock XMP profile was 3200 MHz 18-20-20-20-40-60

[Erling1]

My PC specs: Ryzen 7 5700X3D, GTX 1660, 2x8GB 3200MHz (16-17-17-17), and a Samsung Odyssey G4 240Hz monitor. I've actually found complaints online about this specific monitor having very high input lag.

List out your entire system & peripherals & what specific software settings you've changed.
This is insufficient information for any kind of troubleshooting.

Samsung Odyssey G4 S25BG40 purchased in 2024
GTX 1660 Dual EVO OC 6GB
3200 ddr4 viper patriot steel 2x8 with slightly tightened timings to 16-17-17-17-34-51 (stock was: 18-20-20-20-40-60)
ADATA XPG Spectrix S40G 256 GB
ATRIA XT200 240 GB
Msi b550m pro vdh (BIOS updated)
Ryzen 7 5700x3d
Keyboard Montech mkey tkl darkness red
Mouse logitech g pro 2 lightspeed, steel series prime wireless, xtrfy m8 - experiencing the exact same sluggishness and input delay in Valorant across all of them
headset hyperx stinger 2
PSU MSI MAG A750GN PCIE5
Windows 11 Pro (tested official Windows 11 Home and Windows 10 as well, noticed no difference, the exact same issue persists everywhere)
Rewired the electrical infrastructure because wall voltage used to drop down to 180V sometimes, now it stays between 210–235V

[ablemor]

If this forum has such smart people as you, Naporitian, and whoever else, why don't you guys write up a massive input lag fix or guide together on what the average user should do? That way, all these unnecessary thread creations could be avoided, since everyone keeps opening new topics.

[kyube]

So you're saying that if we had 2 same spec PC's with a game running at 120fps the pc with a 60ns memory latency would have measurably lower input lag than the pc with 70ns memory latency?
Edit:
And how come the input latency is basically the same in this test? Isn't the memory latency much lower on intel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WYIlhzE72s&t=624s

I'm saying that lower R/W DRAM latency will lead to measurably better frame pacing (lower jitter).
The end-user should decide whether it's worth chasing that "high" at the expensive of stability.
The only relatively larger scale comparison (which also has much missing data) is kingfaris' comparison of different memory timings on games.
Averages are a relatively useless descriptive statistic, because input lag (you feel) almost never follows a Gaussian probability distribution.

Samsung Odyssey G4 S25BG40 purchased in 2024
GTX 1660 Dual EVO OC 6GB
3200 ddr4 viper patriot steel 2x8 with slightly tightened timings to 16-17-17-17-34-51 (stock was: 18-20-20-20-40-60)
ADATA XPG Spectrix S40G 256 GB
ATRIA XT200 240 GB
Msi b550m pro vdh (BIOS updated)
Ryzen 7 5700x3d
Keyboard Montech mkey tkl darkness red
Mouse logitech g pro 2 lightspeed, steel series prime wireless, xtrfy m8 - experiencing the exact same sluggishness and input delay in Valorant across all of them
headset hyperx stinger 2
PSU MSI MAG A750GN PCIE5
Windows 11 Pro (tested official Windows 11 Home and Windows 10 as well, noticed no difference, the exact same issue persists everywhere)
Rewired the electrical infrastructure because wall voltage used to drop down to 180V sometimes, now it stays between 210–235V

0.) Have you ran any kind of IMC stress testing software?
1.) Provide a ZenTimings screenshot.
2.) What's your ISP? Have you troubleshooted your ping (round-trip latency) towards the server you play on?
3.) Mention exact UEFI settings you've changed on your MSI motherboard.

3 glaring problems I see are mediocre NVMe's and very likely unstable DIMMs.
3rd one could be general GPU bottleneck in games you play.
It'd be good if you could run a FrameView bench during a deathmatch, so one could check how your GPUTime looks like.
1 potential one could also be the PSU, but it's better to tackle above problems first.

If this forum has such smart people as you, Naporitian, and whoever else, why don't you guys write up a massive input lag fix or guide together on what the average user should do? That way, all these unnecessary thread creations could be avoided, since everyone keeps opening new topics.

0.) I've never claimed I'm "smart", nor do I proclaim to be superior over anyone. I'm saying it's ridiculous that everyone is acting as some kind of victim and treating this entire discussion as some kind of unachievable goal that prevents certain individuals to achieve high-earning esports careers.
1.) I have written numerious relatively longer posts on these forums multiple times, but no one cares enough to do the research. I've even pinned them in my signature for easier research to no avail.
The new topics in regards to "Casper input lag" will never end, as someone likes to create multiple alt accounts in here discussing the same topic every time.
2.) A "Average user" doesn't exist as a concept. Even less so would such a concept be part of this specific subforum on this specific forum on the internet.
3.) Never mention me again in the same sentence with that misinformation machine.

[Hyote]

So you're saying that if we had 2 same spec PC's with a game running at 120fps the pc with a 60ns memory latency would have measurably lower input lag than the pc with 70ns memory latency?
Edit:
And how come the input latency is basically the same in this test? Isn't the memory latency much lower on intel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WYIlhzE72s&t=624s

I'm saying that lower R/W DRAM latency will lead to measurably better frame pacing (lower jitter).
The end-user should decide whether it's worth chasing that "high" at the expensive of stability.
The only relatively larger scale comparison (which also has much missing data) is kingfaris' comparison of different memory timings on games.
Averages are a relatively useless descriptive statistic, because input lag (you feel) almost never follows a Gaussian probability distribution.

Samsung Odyssey G4 S25BG40 purchased in 2024
GTX 1660 Dual EVO OC 6GB
3200 ddr4 viper patriot steel 2x8 with slightly tightened timings to 16-17-17-17-34-51 (stock was: 18-20-20-20-40-60)
ADATA XPG Spectrix S40G 256 GB
ATRIA XT200 240 GB
Msi b550m pro vdh (BIOS updated)
Ryzen 7 5700x3d
Keyboard Montech mkey tkl darkness red
Mouse logitech g pro 2 lightspeed, steel series prime wireless, xtrfy m8 - experiencing the exact same sluggishness and input delay in Valorant across all of them
headset hyperx stinger 2
PSU MSI MAG A750GN PCIE5
Windows 11 Pro (tested official Windows 11 Home and Windows 10 as well, noticed no difference, the exact same issue persists everywhere)
Rewired the electrical infrastructure because wall voltage used to drop down to 180V sometimes, now it stays between 210–235V

0.) Have you ran any kind of IMC stress testing software?
1.) Provide a ZenTimings screenshot.
2.) What's your ISP? Have you troubleshooted your ping (round-trip latency) towards the server you play on?
3.) Mention exact UEFI settings you've changed on your MSI motherboard.

3 glaring problems I see are mediocre NVMe's and very likely unstable DIMMs.
3rd one could be general GPU bottleneck in games you play.
It'd be good if you could run a FrameView bench during a deathmatch, so one could check how your GPUTime looks like.
1 potential one could also be the PSU, but it's better to tackle above problems first.

If this forum has such smart people as you, Naporitian, and whoever else, why don't you guys write up a massive input lag fix or guide together on what the average user should do? That way, all these unnecessary thread creations could be avoided, since everyone keeps opening new topics.

0.) I've never claimed I'm "smart", nor do I proclaim to be superior over anyone. I'm saying it's ridiculous that everyone is acting as some kind of victim and treating this entire discussion as some kind of unachievable goal that prevents certain individuals to achieve high-earning esports careers.
1.) I have written numerious relatively longer posts on these forums multiple times, but no one cares enough to do the research. I've even pinned them in my signature for easier research to no avail.
The new topics in regards to "Casper input lag" will never end, as someone likes to create multiple alt accounts in here discussing the same topic every time.
2.) A "Average user" doesn't exist as a concept. Even less so would such a concept be part of this specific subforum on this specific forum on the internet.
3.) Never mention me again in the same sentence with that misinformation machine.

You already lost me at the point where I read Gear Down Mode Enabled with 2000 FCLK. It's not that deep and there isn't a magical configuration you put together that would help these issues that's why these threads keep popping up. I'm a bit sad that I had to decide to stop selling custom programs but I have one for example that changes SCEWIN settings automatically based on your system. It's a huge step up from defaults. The same goes for Windows, there's so much headroom and people are not using it but rather go on the route of "if it can't be helped, it can't be helped". Other tweakers offer blanket solutions as well that only go so far as to improve things a tiny bit or just a bit more than that.

[Erling1]

So you're saying that if we had 2 same spec PC's with a game running at 120fps the pc with a 60ns memory latency would have measurably lower input lag than the pc with 70ns memory latency?
Edit:
And how come the input latency is basically the same in this test? Isn't the memory latency much lower on intel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WYIlhzE72s&t=624s

I'm saying that lower R/W DRAM latency will lead to measurably better frame pacing (lower jitter).
The end-user should decide whether it's worth chasing that "high" at the expensive of stability.
The only relatively larger scale comparison (which also has much missing data) is kingfaris' comparison of different memory timings on games.
Averages are a relatively useless descriptive statistic, because input lag (you feel) almost never follows a Gaussian probability distribution.

Samsung Odyssey G4 S25BG40 purchased in 2024
GTX 1660 Dual EVO OC 6GB
3200 ddr4 viper patriot steel 2x8 with slightly tightened timings to 16-17-17-17-34-51 (stock was: 18-20-20-20-40-60)
ADATA XPG Spectrix S40G 256 GB
ATRIA XT200 240 GB
Msi b550m pro vdh (BIOS updated)
Ryzen 7 5700x3d
Keyboard Montech mkey tkl darkness red
Mouse logitech g pro 2 lightspeed, steel series prime wireless, xtrfy m8 - experiencing the exact same sluggishness and input delay in Valorant across all of them
headset hyperx stinger 2
PSU MSI MAG A750GN PCIE5
Windows 11 Pro (tested official Windows 11 Home and Windows 10 as well, noticed no difference, the exact same issue persists everywhere)
Rewired the electrical infrastructure because wall voltage used to drop down to 180V sometimes, now it stays between 210–235V

0.) Have you ran any kind of IMC stress testing software?
1.) Provide a ZenTimings screenshot.
2.) What's your ISP? Have you troubleshooted your ping (round-trip latency) towards the server you play on?
3.) Mention exact UEFI settings you've changed on your MSI motherboard.

3 glaring problems I see are mediocre NVMe's and very likely unstable DIMMs.
3rd one could be general GPU bottleneck in games you play.
It'd be good if you could run a FrameView bench during a deathmatch, so one could check how your GPUTime looks like.
1 potential one could also be the PSU, but it's better to tackle above problems first.

0.) TestMem5 (1 hour), OCCT (1 hour) — with no errors.
1.) Attached screenshots
2.) I have 3 internet providers (TENET, Westelecom, and a third one I stopped paying for as I saw no point in it). My ping to Stockholm and Frankfurt servers is 40–45 ms. According to the graph, my ping fluctuates slightly—something like 40–42–44–45 ms for about a minute, then it jumps to 52 ms and drops back to 40–45 ms. My Bufferbloat score is A or A+. Packet loss during a match is usually 0, or at most up to 5 packets (0% percentage-wise), everything is always fine.
3.) RAM is running on stock XMP with slightly tweaked subtimings. CPU has PBO enabled with Curve Optimizer set to -10, everything else is stock.
Let me know if I measured anything incorrectly

[kyube]

0.) TestMem5 (1 hour), OCCT (1 hour) — with no errors.

Insufficient time frame to come to the conclusion that it's stable.
12 – 16 hours is the minimum time you should spend on evaluating IMC stability.
RamTestPro, TM5 with different configs, GSAT, Ycruncher & others. Each should be tested for a minimum of 12 – 16 hours.

1.) Attached screenshots
3.) RAM is running on stock XMP with slightly tweaked subtimings. CPU has PBO enabled with Curve Optimizer set to -10, everything else is stock.

Paste the FrameView data in a pastebin and send the link here. My assumption is that you're entirely CPU bottlenecked, as Valorant isn't that GPU intensive. I see that you're pushing 400-600 FPS, which would push you in the "Nvidia FastSync is a viable strategy" crowd.
Chasing tCL is irrelevant for performance in esports games.
Don't use Curve Optimizer at all. It leads to more issues than it solves.
Keep PBO to the default of your motherboard
I suggest that you evaluate whether XMP is even stable to begin with before chasing tighter manual primary/secondary/tertiary memory timings.

2.) I have 3 internet providers (TENET, Westelecom, and a third one I stopped paying for as I saw no point in it). My ping to Stockholm and Frankfurt servers is 40–45 ms. According to the graph, my ping fluctuates slightly—something like 40–42–44–45 ms for about a minute, then it jumps to 52 ms and drops back to 40–45 ms. My Bufferbloat score is A or A+. Packet loss during a match is usually 0, or at most up to 5 packets (0% percentage-wise), everything is always fine.

Bufferbloat generally doesn't matter for networking quality.
You could check which ISP is best in your region by conducting a MTR to a specific server that Valorant offers or using BGP tools.
This is just a "nice to know" troubleshooting step though.