[Thread Superseded] G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
Here is screen from forum. It's really have visual effect, but he's talking about "decreasing input\camera lag " with this settings.
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
@MaxiJazz, I am aware that he is referring to "TableFogEnable" decreasing input/camera lag, but what I'm saying is, it's offtopic for this thread.
I aim to document the effect syncing methods and framerate limiters have on input latency, while he aims to document the effect CPU/GPU-based graphical settings have on input latency; these are two entirely separate sections of the rendering chain.
And again, as I stated in my previous post, even if "TableFogEnable" did directly have to do with what I'm testing, it would be extremely difficult to come to a definitive conclusion, as the aforementioned setting is heavily dependent on the given hardware, system, game, and perhaps even driver version being tested.
I aim to document the effect syncing methods and framerate limiters have on input latency, while he aims to document the effect CPU/GPU-based graphical settings have on input latency; these are two entirely separate sections of the rendering chain.
And again, as I stated in my previous post, even if "TableFogEnable" did directly have to do with what I'm testing, it would be extremely difficult to come to a definitive conclusion, as the aforementioned setting is heavily dependent on the given hardware, system, game, and perhaps even driver version being tested.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
Sorry RealNC, I missed this post until now.RealNC wrote:So next candidate is dxtory? On the search for the lowest input-lag frame limiter...jorimt wrote:RTSS does indeed appear to introduce up to 1 additional frame of latency, even with G-Sync
As far as I know, RTSS is still the best external solution. And at higher refresh rates, as long as you aren't a competitive gamer, even 1 additional frame of input latency is still better than the additional 2 frames standalone double buffer v-sync or G-Sync + v-sync on would introduce without a limit.
And again, fps limits are only necessary if your system can exceed your display's refresh rate in the given game. As for my system, at 1440p & 144Hz, even with a factory overclocked 1080, I average 60-100 fps in the latest games when maxed out.
As for less performance-intensive competitive online shooters like CS:GO, Overwatch, etc, if input latency is that much of a concern, you might as well uncap the framerate and play un-synced anyway.
Though, it's worth mention, even this will only net you an average of 1-3ms less latency, max, when compared to G-Sync + v-sync on + in-game fps limiter, and only if you count bottom-of-screen updates (frames rendered with either v-sync off or G-Sync + v-sync on + in-game fps limiter applied reach the middle of the screen at the same time; I will have more info about this in my upcoming article).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
On heavy games I cap to ~80FPS. The overall experience is much better if it only fluctuates between 70 and 80 compared having it run between 70 to 120.
If it drops near 70 though, then 1 frame starts becoming something you can feel. At 100+ it's no issue though. But if you play at 1440p with everything on "ultra", 100+ is difficult to maintain in most modern games
Anyway, the most popular limiters out there are RTSS, nvidia's built-in limiter (through Inspector), Radeon Pro (should work with NVidia too), and dxtory. I'll test them out. It's actually possible to do this with a low framerate. Capping to 30 should make 1 frame of additional lag stand out visually without the need for a mouse-camera test setup. In theory...
If it drops near 70 though, then 1 frame starts becoming something you can feel. At 100+ it's no issue though. But if you play at 1440p with everything on "ultra", 100+ is difficult to maintain in most modern games
Anyway, the most popular limiters out there are RTSS, nvidia's built-in limiter (through Inspector), Radeon Pro (should work with NVidia too), and dxtory. I'll test them out. It's actually possible to do this with a low framerate. Capping to 30 should make 1 frame of additional lag stand out visually without the need for a mouse-camera test setup. In theory...
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The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
Ah, I see, you're capping for consistency.
I myself am not too sensitive to large fluctuation (or, at least not bothered), say, between, 60 and 144, so I leave it uncapped. That's not to say I don't notice; anything below 85 fps is notably less fluid/responsive, but I'd rather that, then have that extra one frame of latency with RTSS.
But, yes, for that reason, I can see why you'd be in need of a latency-free external framerate limiter. I don't know of any, but if you find any promising limiters, I'd be happy to test them and post the results.
I myself am not too sensitive to large fluctuation (or, at least not bothered), say, between, 60 and 144, so I leave it uncapped. That's not to say I don't notice; anything below 85 fps is notably less fluid/responsive, but I'd rather that, then have that extra one frame of latency with RTSS.
But, yes, for that reason, I can see why you'd be in need of a latency-free external framerate limiter. I don't know of any, but if you find any promising limiters, I'd be happy to test them and post the results.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
Yeah I'd probably cap for consistency too If i had a 144hz~ screen, and take the minimum fps you will encounter with as a guideline. At least for competitive games I suppose.
My new 7600k @ 5GHz and DDR4-3600mhz PC also further reduced game stutters and engine stalls so G-sync's bottom tear line is also much more stable, sometimes even absent compared to before!
Wheeeeeee.
Anyone know when a new G-sync version will be about? I thought I'd read in a BB article that at some point Nvidia will address this polling rate stuff?
My new 7600k @ 5GHz and DDR4-3600mhz PC also further reduced game stutters and engine stalls so G-sync's bottom tear line is also much more stable, sometimes even absent compared to before!
Wheeeeeee.
Anyone know when a new G-sync version will be about? I thought I'd read in a BB article that at some point Nvidia will address this polling rate stuff?
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Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
I believe that was the Chief's original part #2 article published in 2013:
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/
Anyway, I pretty much debunked the polling rate's affect on G-Sync input latency in the OP of this thread, if it does indeed still exist.
Currently, with G-Sync + v-sync off, you're basically getting fancy adaptive sync (tearline pushed to the very bottom of the screen), which reverts to full-on v-sync off during frametime spikes (complete middle-screen tear).
The only tear-free G-Sync experience is G-Sync + v-sync on (original intent w/frametime compensation), and I don't see that changing any time soon.
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/
No official word about that from Nvidia since, at least to my knowledge.We currently suspect that fps_max 143 is frequently colliding near the G-SYNC frame rate cap, possibly having something to do with NVIDIA’s technique in polling the monitor whether the monitor is ready for the next refresh. I did hear they are working on eliminating polling behavior, so that eventually G-SYNC frames can begin delivering immediately upon monitor readiness, even if it means simply waiting a fraction of a millisecond in situations where the monitor is nearly finished with its previous refresh.
Anyway, I pretty much debunked the polling rate's affect on G-Sync input latency in the OP of this thread, if it does indeed still exist.
Currently, with G-Sync + v-sync off, you're basically getting fancy adaptive sync (tearline pushed to the very bottom of the screen), which reverts to full-on v-sync off during frametime spikes (complete middle-screen tear).
The only tear-free G-Sync experience is G-Sync + v-sync on (original intent w/frametime compensation), and I don't see that changing any time soon.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
So would you say for the most part unless you are some sort of pro gamer ... it might be best to go with G-sync + Vsync on and no cap?
Andy
Andy
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
That entirely depends on if you're exceeding the maximum refresh rate of your monitor or not.
If you are, then with G-Sync + v-sync on and no fps limiter in place, you're getting double-buffer v-sync level input latency (up to two additional frames). Two additional frames at 60Hz is up to an extra 33.2ms input latency, @100Hz an extra 20ms, @120 an extra 16.6ms, @144Hz an extra 13.8ms, @165hz an extra 12.2ms, and so on.
If an in-game limiter isn't available, then RTSS is the best alternative. It, however, adds up to 1 frame of latency. This goes for when you're using it with v-sync off, standalone v-sync, G-Sync + v-sync off, or G-Sync + v-sync on.
If you're averaging well below your display's max refresh rate in a given game (say fps in the 80's on a 144Hz display), then no, with G-Sync + v-sync on, you don't need a framerate limit to avoid additional sync-induced input latency.
If you are, then with G-Sync + v-sync on and no fps limiter in place, you're getting double-buffer v-sync level input latency (up to two additional frames). Two additional frames at 60Hz is up to an extra 33.2ms input latency, @100Hz an extra 20ms, @120 an extra 16.6ms, @144Hz an extra 13.8ms, @165hz an extra 12.2ms, and so on.
If an in-game limiter isn't available, then RTSS is the best alternative. It, however, adds up to 1 frame of latency. This goes for when you're using it with v-sync off, standalone v-sync, G-Sync + v-sync off, or G-Sync + v-sync on.
If you're averaging well below your display's max refresh rate in a given game (say fps in the 80's on a 144Hz display), then no, with G-Sync + v-sync on, you don't need a framerate limit to avoid additional sync-induced input latency.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Re: G-Sync 101 w/Chart (WIP)
If you are a pro gamer, you don't use g-sync.akirru wrote:So would you say for the most part unless you are some sort of pro gamer ... it might be best to go with G-sync + Vsync on and no cap?
It does not make sense to disable vsync when using g-sync. I don't even know why people wanted this in the first place.
IMO, it's because people are generally completely clueless and don't know what they actually want
Steam • GitHub • Stack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.