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Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

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Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby open » 21 Jul 2017, 14:27

Upgraded to the zowie ec1-a as it was on the list of flawless sensor mice I found here http://on-winning.com/flawless-sensor-m ... t-perfect/

Used to use the razor naga for the longest time. If you want the real lowdown the biggest upgrade is the way it glides. Im finding better accuracy with long range micro adjustment shots with my high sensitivity. I'm also liking the form factor I chose as the naga is a palm support form factor with a hump in the back but the ec1-a has the hump in the middle and it has helped me to use more full arm movements than i used to. It may also have less input lag and better tracking. When i have to lift the mouse the transitions are infinitely better. The dpi adjustment is on the bottom where I cant hit it, the polling rate is adjusted when I plug it in, and it requires no bloatware which I really am greatful for.

I cant believe it took me this long to upgrade my mouse. I upgraded my computer and monitor 2 times before I tried this. My last monitor upgrade to 240hz did not even seem to help me in game until I added the mouse. The mouse really helps me take advantage of the new monitors smoothness.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 21 Jul 2017, 22:08

open wrote:Upgraded to the zowie ec1-a as it was on the list of flawless sensor mice I found here http://on-winning.com/flawless-sensor-m ... t-perfect/

Used to use the razor naga for the longest time. If you want the real lowdown the biggest upgrade is the way it glides. Im finding better accuracy with long range micro adjustment shots with my high sensitivity. I'm also liking the form factor I chose as the naga is a palm support form factor with a hump in the back but the ec1-a has the hump in the middle and it has helped me to use more full arm movements than i used to. It may also have less input lag and better tracking. When i have to lift the mouse the transitions are infinitely better. The dpi adjustment is on the bottom where I cant hit it, the polling rate is adjusted when I plug it in, and it requires no bloatware which I really am greatful for.

I cant believe it took me this long to upgrade my mouse. I upgraded my computer and monitor 2 times before I tried this. My last monitor upgrade to 240hz did not even seem to help me in game until I added the mouse. The mouse really helps me take advantage of the new monitors smoothness.

Fantastic. Yes, the mouse accuracy is indeed extremely important.

We have a Mouse Guide, but it will need to be updated to include sensor accuracy considerations -- that is also super important!

As you've now discovered -- a 1000Hz or 2000Hz mouse is no good for competitive play if the mouse sensor is not accurate enough to keep up accurately.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 01 Aug 2017, 14:37

I think I need to obtain an Asus ROG Gladius 2000Hz mouse, to test some of my high-Hz displays.

I'm beginning to see limitations of a 1000Hz poll rate. I see more clear beat-frequency artifacts in my mouse arrow pointer already, 240Hz monitor at 1000Hz mouse poll rate = more visible skipped mouse cursor locations when I rapidly move my mouse in a circle on a black background. This is happening with both the old Logitech G9 and the newer Razer Deathadder.

Image

However, at the 240Hz refresh rate, the 1000Hz mouse pollrate limitations are much bigger than at 120Hz refresh rate (used to create the above image).

I now finally consistently see 1000Hz mouse limitations much more clearly at 240Hz non-strobed non-VRR.

Manufacturers need to release more accurate sensors and more official 2000Hz (not only by mouse overclocking) mice. I'll have to track down a 2000Hz mouse and retest this photograph too. The mouse pollrate needs to remain far above refresh rate, to prevent microstutter from showing up -- and this becomes important as refresh rates gets higher.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby RealNC » 01 Aug 2017, 23:02

We don't need polling rates. We need report rates. Doesn't USB 3 support this?
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby Glide » 02 Aug 2017, 03:40

The ASUS ROG Gladius sends two reports every 1ms rather than one report every 0.5ms like a true 2000Hz mouse would, so it's basically "fake" 2000Hz support. Don't buy one.

I wish these sensor lists were better. There are lots of mice considered to have "flawless" sensors which are not.

I had a Roccat Savu and while the sensor has no acceleration, that mouse's implementation of the sensor would malfunction with fast movement speeds - particularly on lighter coloured mouse pads.

The Razer DeathAdder 2013/Chroma sensor is "flawless" - but only up to 1550 CPI. Above that you get significant amounts of smoothing. (32 frames or more, if I recall correctly)

I'm not saying that they are the only truly "flawless" mice, but Logitech's recent mice have flawless tracking up to 12,000 CPI with only 2 frames of smoothing and high malfunction speeds.

As I understand it, all new sensors have a minimum of 2 frames smoothing, but it doesn't matter when the highest polling rate used is 1000Hz as 2 frames is a fraction of a millisecond.

RealNC wrote:We don't need polling rates. We need report rates. Doesn't USB 3 support this?

I believe it does, and I would love to see mice and keyboards designed to use that, rather than polling.
Failing that, I would like to see true >1000Hz polling rates.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 02 Aug 2017, 15:19

What about the SteelSeries 310? Looks like a very promising model.

I'm in the market to obtain a more 240Hz-friendly mouse, even if it simply has a more accurate 1000Hz poll rate.

Glide wrote:The ASUS ROG Gladius sends two reports every 1ms rather than one report every 0.5ms like a true 2000Hz mouse would, so it's basically "fake" 2000Hz support. Don't buy one.

Fake or not, it's important to note that increased report rates do decrease lag.

Unofficially, there's an overclock.net thread showing some mice worked fine for overclocked 8 KHz polling of a 1000 Hz report rate mouse to reduce input lag -- it can reduce polling lag from 1ms (0 to 1ms delay range of a single 1000Hz report cycle) down to 0.125ms (0 to 0.125ms delay range of a single 1000Hz report cycle).

Here's the overclock.net thread on mouse poll overclocking. Even though report rate is not increased, it did decrease lag slightly on some mice. 2000Hz, 4000Hz, and 8000Hz polling were tested.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby sharknice » 12 Aug 2017, 15:48

If I remember correctly Zowie EC1's have issues with 1000hz. So you might want to stick with 500hz.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby open » 27 Aug 2017, 11:55

I can't find much info on this. A quick search turned up some issues with tracking of fast motions on high sense and some issues with tracking on slow movements compared to death adder 2013. Some of these were resolved by cleaning dust off the mousepad or switching mouse pad but i think the fast movements tracking on high sense could just be something the mouse does.

Either way i use half wrist half arm movements on high sense so i doubt that im moving too fast for the sensor and i never see it cut out.

My problem is im upgrading from a razer naga so i dont have a high standard to compare it to. The mouse seems fine for overwatch at 200-300fps on a 240hz monitor. I may try another mouse pad though i wanted to get the fastest zowie pad so this can be my excuse!

Also i play pharah mainly so its not like i aim or anything.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby drmcninja » 04 Sep 2017, 13:50

Glide wrote:The ASUS ROG Gladius sends two reports every 1ms rather than one report every 0.5ms like a true 2000Hz mouse would, so it's basically "fake" 2000Hz support. Don't buy one.

I wish these sensor lists were better. There are lots of mice considered to have "flawless" sensors which are not.

I had a Roccat Savu and while the sensor has no acceleration, that mouse's implementation of the sensor would malfunction with fast movement speeds - particularly on lighter coloured mouse pads.

The Razer DeathAdder 2013/Chroma sensor is "flawless" - but only up to 1550 CPI. Above that you get significant amounts of smoothing. (32 frames or more, if I recall correctly)

I'm not saying that they are the only truly "flawless" mice, but Logitech's recent mice have flawless tracking up to 12,000 CPI with only 2 frames of smoothing and high malfunction speeds.

As I understand it, all new sensors have a minimum of 2 frames smoothing, but it doesn't matter when the highest polling rate used is 1000Hz as 2 frames is a fraction of a millisecond.

RealNC wrote:We don't need polling rates. We need report rates. Doesn't USB 3 support this?

I believe it does, and I would love to see mice and keyboards designed to use that, rather than polling.
Failing that, I would like to see true >1000Hz polling rates.

Corsair M65 which has the PMW3360 sensor (or a derivative) interestingly has the stock DPI settings go from 400 to 800 to 1500 and not 1600.

I wonder if Corsair knew something.|

Nixeus Revel has no extra smoothing over what the sensor itself has, but I think all implementations, even Logitech's, have smoothing above 1500-1600 to some degree.
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Re: Upgraded to a "flawless sensor" mouse and I love it

Postby drmcninja » 04 Sep 2017, 13:52

open wrote:Also i play pharah mainly so its not like i aim or anything.
LOL! I want to quote this.

On low sensitivity, any mouse works well. I can aim almost as well on my friend's Deathadder 3.5G from years ago because I use 24cm/360.

I suggest PMW3360/3366/3389 sensor and don't go over 1500 or 1550 dpi (1600 maybe if you wanna risk it, some say that's too high). Adjust in-game sense accordingly.
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