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CSGO feels like 60hz

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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby mello » 11 Sep 2017, 14:35

crankz wrote:Its not internet related cuz ive lived on other house and i had the same issue... played on a lan event today and it felt like i was playing another game lmao... super smooth it was like i even had more dpis


If your skill and performence is inconsistent and you have 200-300fps @ 144Hz, then there is basically 99% chance that it is caused by your internet connection, the way i described it in my previous post. 95% of problems reported by CS 1.6 and CS:GO gamers in last 15 years on various boards and forums, problems that are releated to poor hit registration, laggy feel, non smooth aiming (this problem is described in many different ways by players) are caused by internet connection and it can't be fixed in any way.

lexlazootin wrote:It's your mouse or monitor.


Its not his mouse or a monitor because he was playing on lan event and he felt like he was playing another game... Even a faulty monitor would not create such an imbalance and inconsistency in performance, the only thing that can do that is internet connection, it just can't process incoming/outgoing UDP packets at the rates he is currently using.
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby RealNC » 11 Sep 2017, 19:33

FPS has nothing to do with networking in CS:GO. It's completely unrelated.
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 13 Sep 2017, 11:17

RealNC wrote:FPS has nothing to do with networking in CS:GO. It's completely unrelated.

Yeah -- it's fascinating how they can decouple from each other.
Subscribe to Battle(non)sense YouTube's channel is quite educational here.

BTW, benchmark your Internet's connection latency variability (ping jitter). There are many tools and websites that do this. Even if you have a gigabit connection -- the problem is if your Internet ping is jumping all over place from 10ms all the way to 100ms (an order-of-magnitude variability) -- your CS:GO gaming is going to be total crap (a supertanker of crap, even!) even if you can download Netflix episodes in just 5 seconds.

Literally, this is so important -- eSports players consider this seriously too: They win more CS:GO championship money playing on a 5MBps connection with 1ms ping variability (29ms-31ms from ping.exe, 30ms avg) to the same server -- than a gigabit cable connection with continually 25ms random variability (5ms-55ms from ping.exe, 30ms avg). Faster often can translate to less variable ping, but not always -- these situations have happened before -- fast Internet connections crappy to CS:GO and slower Internet connections sterling to CS:GO -- all simply because of ping latency variability too small to be easily noticed in web browser surfing.
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby mello » 13 Sep 2017, 15:38

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Literally, this is so important -- eSports players consider this seriously too: They win more CS:GO championship money playing on a 5MBps connection with 1ms ping variability (29ms-31ms from ping.exe, 30ms avg) to the same server -- than a gigabit cable connection with continually 25ms random variability (5ms-55ms from ping.exe, 30ms avg). Faster often can translate to less variable ping, but not always -- these situations have happened before -- fast Internet connections crappy to CS:GO and slower Internet connections sterling to CS:GO -- all simply because of ping latency variability too small to be easily noticed in web browser surfing.


Interesting, and i agree that it also may play a role, but still, and by far, the most important thing in online gaming (at least for cs 1.6 and cs:go) are UDP packets, and how your ISP is handling and prioritizing UDP packets, and how overloaded your ISPs network is during different hours in a day. And this is precisely why crankz said this:

crankz wrote:I think its hardware related... cuz some days it feels good, others feels really crap...


Although he is wrong that it is hardware releted... this is exactly what happens on shitty internet connections. This happens because your ISPs network is under different load all the time, sometimes it is heavily used and overloaded and sometimes the usage is not that great and then you are getting better hit reg in fps shooters. What happens when network is overloaded ? Higher ping fluctuations, possibly more packet loss, and when that happens there are more packet errors that needs to be corrected. So basically, what affects hit reg and gaming in general are the number of errors on your line (they increase when your ISPs network is under heavy usage) and then additional delays are introduced, and error correction techniques like interleaving and IMP jump into action. For DSL we are looking at these parameters:

- interleaver depth
- delay (in ms)
- INP

You want to have these as low as possible to have the best gaming performence. Currenly internet connections are adaptive so changes are made on the fly depending on your line condition at a given time (errors, reported DL/UP rates, variances in snr margin, and attenuation, among other things...) so you have no control over these parameters, and fixing "bad hit reg" is not possible in any way, no matter what you do. In the past there was a possibility to made certain changes for your line and make them stick, you only needed to contact your ISPs customer service and request the use of fastpatch on your line. This meant lowest ping times (the lowest possible for your line) and no error correction. And even with errors that were not corrected and occasional packet loss the gaming performence ("hit reg" mostly because this is what matters) could have been 100% or 200% better than with interleaving and error correction enabled. Depending on your connection, you could have easily felt like you were playing a completely different game. Currently ISPs do not make any changes to your line on request, everything is automatic, and internet stability has the highest priority for every ISP out there.
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 13 Sep 2017, 20:11

Yes, temperamental DSL connections is one possible factor. Been there, done that. 3.5 Mbps with less than 10db SNR headroom and interleaved -- that kept dropping at peak period and bad weather. I've now got a reasonably good VDSL connection now (modem stats say 120Mbps attainable, 50MBps sync'd, consistently fast even at peak) but I know DSL connections that are connected well below max are often very temperamental.
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby mello » 14 Sep 2017, 04:13

Syncing your line below your max attainable rate with SNR headroom won't really affect gaming, unless your SNR changes by a large margin during the day, causing huge packet loss and/or disconnections. First and most important reason for bad hit registration is interleaving and error correction on your line. Anyone who was able to switch between interleaved and fastpath with no error correction can attest to that. You can see the difference immediately, and the higher the interleave depth was the bigger the difference will be when switching to fastpath. For me it was a night and day difference, literally like i was playing another game. With higher interleaving depth and error correction enabled on my line, my skill was capped at the avarege/above avarege level with occassional times when i was able to play much better, only because hit registration was that much better at the time i was playing the the game. This was so frustrating, knowing that the people i play against shouldn't have killed me, hit me or even have a chance to react. On fastpath i was able to play at a elite level (i was one the top players in my country back in the day) with no real problems, even with occasional packet loss which you could feel playing a game. Eventually, there was time when you could no longer use fastpath and everything became automatic, and all the important parameters are changed on the fly and they adapt to line condition and the information that is reported between router and the device that is sending singal to your home. There was one trick that you could use, request line calibration from time to time (all new users have that enabled for 7 days when they are connected to the internet for the first time) that lasted 4-7 days, when DLM was gathering the data on your line and the interleaver depth was quite low with minimal delays. Eventually DLM always decided that i should enjoy much higher interleaver depth with error correction, for line stability reason i would assume, which sadly for me makes the game unplayable at the higher level because hit registration is just terrible. I think that in some countries you can still use or request fastpath but that is quickly going away, i suspect because ISPs want the uniformity for their clients, and its easier to manage when everything is automatic. Another reason might be that fastpath caused some problems on the network for other users (instability, too much variability in line parameters) so they decided to not use that anymore.

Second reason for bad hit registration is that ISPs networks and lines are overloaded. Each month and each year there are more and more people that are being connected to the internet, and that is the case from the very start. When i got my first internet connection in my home (it was 2001 or 2002) there were no problems with hit registration even when connections were not very fast at the time. And it progressively got worse, year after year, after more and more people got the internet in my area, in the city and in the whole country. Nowadays you can have many different problems (even not directly releated to gaming) even on very fast connections, and as Chief said, latency variability can sometimes be much higher on super fast connections than on slow but stable connections. What i am also trying to say is this... the more people are using the internet (at the time you play) in your area, in your city or in your country (same ISP) then it directly affects your gaming experience and hit registration. At one point in time i have unintentionally created a perfect scenario to test this. I was gaming during an important national football match when the whole country was watching the game... In this scenario you can safely assume, without shadow of a doubt, that the internet in the whole country could catch a breath and there was no chance that ISPs network was overloaded. And ? My hit registration was almost perfect, and all other problems have disappeard, my reaction time was elite (as it should be) and i probably had the best gaming experience from my home in years. This all happened without my ping changing at all, and with interleaving and error correction enabled (according to my router). I have tested it few more times in the next few months, and it has become clear to me, less network usage in your area/city at any given time = the better gaming experience and hit registration you will have. This is why many people have vastly different gaming perfomances each and every day, sometimes it feels good and sometimes it just feels bad.
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Sep 2017, 15:23

Fascinating stuff. Yes...

mello wrote:unless your SNR changes by a large margin during the day, causing huge packet loss and/or disconnections.

For me, that is what happened when ordering a 6Mbps DSL connection that only syncs at 2.3Mbps. Or order a 50Mbps VDSL connection that only syncs at 28Mbps, etc. You're cramming SNR very tightly, to the point where daily variances in SNR wreaks havoc with connection quality :(

There have been crappy modems that fuss badly with a tiny SNR change, too. And when you're running at tiny (3db, I think?) SNR safety margins, a tiny 0.5db change can cause the modem to throw up its arms. Calling the ISP to get a slower speed on FastPath can be preferable, but sometimes the distances were just barely good enough for DSL :(

Not a problem anymore for me :)
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby RealNC » 14 Sep 2017, 17:22

I'm still on VDSL2, and have this issue since the ISP center is further away (I live on an island, and as you can guess, it's not the best location for high speed broadband.)

However, the problem is 100% solvable by using a modem that supports SNR margin adjustment. Tweaking it to a value that makes the modem connect at a lower speed than it normally would eliminates all issues.

It also works in reverse. I can modify the margin to connect with maximum speed, but then the problems get worse. Which is perfectly fine while you're not gaming ;-)
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby crankz » 15 Sep 2017, 12:59

Its not internet related im 100% sure. ive had others isps before and lived on other houses...


Same Mobo and GPU. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensiv ... smth_like/
Same Mobo and CPU https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/pay-f ... ow.408654/

im pretty sure its the mobo, gaming mobos are a mistake :oops:
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Postby lexlazootin » 15 Sep 2017, 15:15

There is nothing wrong with your system. All of the symptoms you are having are all very vague and
very different that wouldn't be one cause of one thing, "feels like 60hz", "Slow to peak" "Feels like more DPI" there isn't any problem and you just want there to be. You claim that the problem goes away after you reinstall windows, but now you think it's the motherboard?

I see the same thing when i deal with product returns, if the person is claiming more then 1 thing wrong with the product 9 times out of 10 they are just making it up just to get a return, and the sad part is that i believe the people honestly believe what they are saying.

You can't prove there is nothing wrong and you don't want to, it's a waste of our time and yours.
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