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G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Villani » 14 Dec 2018, 07:19

Chief Blur Buster wrote:However, the use of RTSS can be very beneficial to reduce ULMB input lag, by capping about 3fps below refresh rate. RTSS is extremely accurate, so flat-out can look really good.


Is there a difference with using a 118fps cap to something else or can I keep this?
Also is Rivatuner noticeably better than NVInspector? I'm using the version 2.1.3.10 of inspector which has Limiter V2 mode (apparently less input lag).
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby RealNC » 14 Dec 2018, 08:46

In ULMB or G-Sync?

With G-Sync, you should use the in-game limiter, or if there isn't one, RTSS, and cap to at most 3FPS below your refresh rate. You can cap to anything lower than that, of course. But not higher, since this would either result in input lag or tearing. So on a 144Hz monitor, use 144Hz and you can cap to anything from 1FPS up to 141FPS.

With ULMB, you should use RTSS and cap to 0.01FPS below refresh rate. You need to detect your real refresh rate first. See this post for more details.

The NVidia limiter has higher input lag than RTSS, and so it's not recommended.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Villani » 14 Dec 2018, 10:33

RealNC wrote:In ULMB or G-Sync?

With G-Sync, you should use the in-game limiter, or if there isn't one, RTSS, and cap to at most 3FPS below your refresh rate. You can cap to anything lower than that, of course. But not higher, since this would either result in input lag or tearing. So on a 144Hz monitor, use 144Hz and you can cap to anything from 1FPS up to 141FPS.

With ULMB, you should use RTSS and cap to 0.01FPS below refresh rate. You need to detect your real refresh rate first. See this post for more details.

The NVidia limiter has higher input lag than RTSS, and so it's not recommended.


I'm using both at the same time, which is why I'm a bit confused to what to use :/ I will be using 120hz ULMB+Gsync as I really like how it looks in the game's I play, so I'm not sure if I should cap it to 117 or to 119.988 (119.998 is my real refresh rate)...
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby RealNC » 14 Dec 2018, 11:03

If G-Sync is active, then you can cap to whatever you want, up to -3FPS of the current refresh rate. So for 120Hz G-Sync + ULMB, 117FPS is the highest you can cap to without introducing lag (vsync ON) or tearing (vsync OFF.)
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Villani » 14 Dec 2018, 11:10

RealNC wrote:If G-Sync is active, then you can cap to whatever you want, up to -3FPS of the current refresh rate. So for 120Hz G-Sync + ULMB, 117FPS is the highest you can cap to without introducing lag (vsync ON) or tearing (vsync OFF.)


Alright, thank you!
One quick question for the end, do I use vsync at all or do I keep it off everywhere?
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby RealNC » 14 Dec 2018, 11:18

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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Dec 2018, 13:38

For GSYNC, you keep VSYNC ON with it in Control Panel, but VSYNC OFF in the games themselves -- as many GSYNC FAQ's tell you, including ours.

In addition, RTSS is the most microsecond-accurate lowest-lag external frame rate capping utility.

An in-game framerate capper is better but for ULMB+GSYNC I highly and [u]very strongly[u] recommend RTSS because the microsecond-accuracy of the framerate capping will allow maxed-framerate situations (e.g. 117fps at 120Hz ULMB) to avoid any erratic flickering of the combination of ULMB+GSYNC.

ULMB+GSYNC is an absolute beauty (it becomes a 100% jitteriness-free ULMB mode while giving your framerate room to "breathe") to behold if you can control the erratic flickering and low-framerate dimming.

In Blur Busters philosophy of "The Right Tool For The Right Job" the combination of ULMB+GSYNC works best when you're preferring ULMB anyway and can usually maybe 50%-80% of the time run at maximum framerate, but absolutely hate the jitteriness-feeling of framedrops during ULMB. (ULMB can amplify stutter).

The comfortable framerate range of ULMB+GSYNC is extremely tight, so if you have a super powerful GPU, I recommend combining the 155Hz ULMB hack with the ULMB+GSYNC trick, so you have a comfortable 85Hz-155Hz VRR range. Below 85Hz, the screen flickers too much and dims too much, and above 155Hz ULMB is not available. So the widest comfortable ULMB VRR framerate range tends to be ~85fps-155fps. If you're okay with more flicker, then range can be ~60fps-155fps

You want
(A) Games that usually runs max framerate more than 50% of the time
(B) framerate slowdowns never has any single frametime longer than 1/75sec in any one-second period (except rarely). Even a single disk access will cause a flicker, so install your game on the fastest SSD and/or have excess RAM to cache the whole game in memory (32GB).
(C) Always combine VSYNC ON with GSYNC. (VSYNC OFF in games, GSYNC + VSYNC ON in NVIDIA Control Panel and/or NVInspector)
(D) For lower lag at ULMB 155Hz, cap at ~152fps. For lower lag at ULMB 120Hz, cap at ~117-118fps. Always use RTSS for microsecond-accuracy framerate capping, some in-game framerate cappers have lower lag but are a little more inaccurate and will cause erratic max-framerate flicker effects that RTSS does not give you during ULMB+GSYNC.

Once you've properly tuned ULMB+GSYNC, it's a beauty to behold. It's fiddly, picky, not for the faint of heart, but can be an absolute beauty to have blurless & tearless & stutterless ULMB that's also simultaneously lower lag than regular ULMB.
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Villani » 14 Dec 2018, 14:21

Chief Blur Buster wrote:-snip-


Oh wow that's a lot of great information, thank you!
I see you mention 155hz ULMB hack, do you know if this is possible on my monitor as it's only 165hz overclocked? I have the DELL S2417DG, and trying it myself I can't enable ULMB at 155hz :( Though I'm not sure if it's only for 240hz monitors.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Dec 2018, 19:18

There's some explanations earlier in this thread that explains how to get a slightly higher Hz ULMB.

Get the dotclock of your best ULMB mode, reduce the blanking intervals to transfer dotclock headroom to raise your refresh rate. So you may be able to get ULMB ~128Hz out of a ULMB-120Hz max monitor (give or take).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Luckbad » 16 Dec 2018, 22:13

Anyone know if this still works with current drivers? I can't get this to work on the latest GeForce drivers with a Dell S2716DG (rev A03). If I use the NVIDIA Custom Resolutions Backup Tool to Restore customres1080jan2016gsync.bin and restart the driver (and/or PC), those resolutions don't appear.

EDIT: I followed RealNC's instructions and it's looking promising thus far. The main post should really be edited to include currently-accurate info is possible!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883&start=180#p25654

EDIT #2: I confirmed it in the NVIDIA Pendulum demo. It technically works, but it strobes or flickers something awful on the backswing.

I also checked the MSI Oculux NXG251R. It can do ULMB + G-Sync as well, and also looks nasty in Pendulum on one of the swing directions.

EDIT #3: Hold the phone! That horrible flickery strobe was because the Pendulum demo has really variable FPS. It only did that when it went really low. This might actually be extremely useful to me with the 240Hz MSI monitor.
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