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Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Everything about input lag. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.

Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby Notty_PT » 08 Feb 2019, 19:19

andrelip wrote:
Notty_PT wrote:In fact he just minimized the issues, but they are still there, but you won´t spot it on a video and you might not spot it a lot in real life aswell. I do tho. The first scenario he shown is the absolute worst you could get and is not suppose to happen on most presets even by default. If you reduce contrast to 30 and use response time normal it will reduce the effects even more but I can still spot them on bright colours.

Minimizing the effect is not the same as eliminating the problem, and this monitor will always have bad overshoot on white/bright colours, and specially noticeable in game. And when framerate is not steady or below 240 is even worse, trust me. Is one of the worst 240hz models, reason why it went as low as 260€ here in Europe!


The "impossible to solve" inverse ghosting is 100% fixed and the ghosting is pretty good for a non-strobe monitor. Take note that I recorded this video using 960fps so everything is amplified. I have 0 issues with lower fps as long as this fix is active and VRR mode is on. I can record a video showing that too. I tested with everything on default without any calibration to show that the image goes from horrible to clear just by setting the right timings. This monitor also accepts 1/360 scanout speed but that's another subject. Feel free to record a video of the Asus XG248Q to demonstrate how better it is (I'm being honest here since I never saw one).

Being bad at default is really a failure as a project but the monitor is superb when fixed. Here in Brazil we had a thread of 2500+ posts about this monitor and this little trick was a game changer:
https://adrenaline.uol.com.br/forum/thr ... hz.618766/


Different eyes for different perceptions. Chief already mentioned that not everyone is sensible to the same stuff.

I have 5 240hz monitors here on my table and I used almost 10 now. AlienWare AW2518HF with or without tweaks is the worst of them all. The overshoot is awful and I can not accept it. Doesn´t matter if I tried to fix it with CRU (i´m not a noobie btw), with the contrast trick that usually works on Dell (and btw was the best option for this model, not the CRU fix) and VRR.

You can record how many videos you want, they still don´t show the problem as a whole. People that are happy with AW2518HF is not because of this fix, is simply because they never ever used another 240hz monitor in their life so they don´t really have a comparasion to see how bad the problem is.

Also the input lag on AW2518HF with or without VRR, is at best the same as a ViewSonic XG2402 144hz monitor, wich is my daily driver; ALienware being by far one of the slowest models, only topped by the AOC one. This is for the freesync version, the Gsync version (2518H) is fast, input lag wise.

And don´t even get me started how overdrive deteorates (even more) when you drop lower than 230fps. At 220fps it is already unaceptable to me, at 200fps it has worse motion clarity than a good 144hz monitor at 144fps, and if you drop to 160 or 150? Game over, the experience is awful and more users confirmed that on this forum actually.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby andrelip » 08 Feb 2019, 19:27

Your are taking something that is quantitative and measurable and changing that to something that is "subjective" to perception. But yes... your eyes areprobably faster than the 960 fps camera.

Just a few more tests with different fps than the maximum...

Slide
Default (nofix) 200 fps @ 240hz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeOZ6SJ9EYA
capped at 120fps g-sync with fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YChoeBAx-A4
capped at 220fps g-sync with fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR0Qf96LgvA


In game
Default (nofix) 240 fps @ 240hz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dklN4FYUIVM
capped at 120fps g-sync with fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4JnPjEUE74
capped at 120fps g-sync without the fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGqxgQltODk
capped at 220fps g-sync with fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcSR4wsafmg

Since you have a lab in your table then you should prove by comparing both the monitor or at least doing a high speed video of the Asus XG248Q.
Last edited by andrelip on 09 Feb 2019, 06:29, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby Notty_PT » 08 Feb 2019, 19:44

No, don´t get me wrong.

I will be as objective as I can: AlienWare AW2518HF is the worst 240hz monitor I ever used and even with all those tweaks still has incredibly bad overshoot, specially at sub 230 framerates.

Being subjective: You might not spot it or you might not want to spot it, because that´s the model you have at home and people always tend to defend what they have as I mentioned earlier. Be it football clubs, graphic card brand, consoles, even cars. Human nature.

Your whole insecurity by spamming posts saying it is perfect shows a lot aswell!! You could just be enjoying your perfect monitor and ignore me, but you keep showing insecurity about it :)

The truth is, one day you will ahve the chance to buy a different 240hz model in the future, and then you will remember all of this and think "oh well... yeah.. honestly he was right and AW is crap compared to this". But you have no chances of comparing it to a better model, so you don´t know.

I would take a 144hz average monitor over the AW2518HF anyday!
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby andrelip » 08 Feb 2019, 20:10

I'm a senior Erlang programmer so believe me... it's not about the lack of resources. I had 4 different 120/144 monitors since the first XL2420t and I picked the HF version because I did not care about VRR at all. The monitor is really bad without the fix but is amazing with it. But I will not fall in your bait more than I already did and I'm here just to contribute with the community. If you reply with real data other then your mind... then we can talk. But by now I will stop the toxic messages.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby Notty_PT » 08 Feb 2019, 20:23

It is that simple. You will keep reccomending it for users on this forum and I will keep not reccomending it, unless the price is really low. And being Senior Erlang programmer means nothing to me. I assure you few people tried as many 240hz monitors as I did pal. I´m enthsiast about these things (on pair with mice), for more than 10 years. I have no need to roast a specific model or brand, I just want every user t be aware of what they will find:

Best 240hz monitor: Asus XG248Q

Best 2nd options 240hz: Asus PG258Q, AlienWare AW2518H

Best gaming monitor I ever used: ViewSonic XG2402 144hz - Daily Driver now, best motion clarity + low input lag

You also said that "just like battlenonsense found" the monitor has less input lag with VRR. That sentence alone compromises your crediblity because it is a well known fact that the Asus VG25 that Battle(non)sense tested has a problem with nvidia GPUs with VRR off; wich is not replicated on other models. Also AlienWare AW2518HF doesn´t show any reduced input lag by using VRR. It still has one of the worst input lag from every 240hz model.

With that being said, we had enough of this.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby InBetweenNames » 09 Feb 2019, 00:06

Andrelip, I tried your fix using LCD Reduced and Freesync on my GTX 1080ti and it seems to be working very well. Certainly much better than default. I don't have access to a high speed camera but I'd really like to test a framerate limit of 237 to see how it compared to 220 (as you are using). Is there a reason you don't use 237 yourself, or completely uncapped for that matter? I'd also like to test out the vsync + gsync too in comparison to the 239hz default mode.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby andrelip » 09 Feb 2019, 06:14

InBetweenNames wrote:Andrelip, I tried your fix using LCD Reduced and Freesync on my GTX 1080ti and it seems to be working very well. Certainly much better than default. I don't have access to a high speed camera but I'd really like to test a framerate limit of 237 to see how it compared to 220 (as you are using). Is there a reason you don't use 237 yourself, or completely uncapped for that matter? I'd also like to test out the vsync + gsync too in comparison to the 239hz default mode.


No special reason... I've read that the Nvidia driver needs more than 3 frames to work properly with VesaVRR so I've just wanted to be safe. Some day I will put the LED on the mouse button to test those kind of things.

I do have a theory that with g-sync enabled this monitor will deliver a better timings for "fixed" 240hz than if you have a "real fixed" 240hz. I 'm playing way better nowadays with 220 fps capped and g-sync on (v-sync off) so I'm not messing too much to avoid diminishing returns. I will test with uncapped as soon as I have the LED. If you find you play better with uncapped please tell me.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby InBetweenNames » 10 Feb 2019, 21:12

I will test with uncapped as soon as I have the LED. If you find you play better with uncapped please tell me.


Awesome -- looking forward to it! I tested with 400FPS uncapped in Overwatch today (g-sync ON + v-sync OFF + LCD reduced true 240hz on the AW2518HF) and it has never felt so responsive. I haven't tested with a 220FPS cap yet as I ran out of time today, but I'll give it a shot this week.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby andrelip » 17 Feb 2019, 13:59

Just to add some new info:

If you have the overshooting you can in fact get rid of it with g-sync off without CRU. You just have to enable g-sync (windowed and full screen) and then disable it. Very strange. With the RX cards you never have overshooting. I guess this trick should also remove the "input lag" reported by Battle(non)sense in his monitor.
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Re: Input Lag between Zowie and Alienware?

Postby Notty_PT » 17 Feb 2019, 15:53

andrelip wrote:Just to add some new info:

If you have the overshooting you can in fact get rid of it with g-sync off without CRU. You just have to enable g-sync (windowed and full screen) and then disable it. Very strange. With the RX cards you never have overshooting. I guess this trick should also remove the "input lag" reported by Battle(non)sense in his monitor.


The input lag Battle(non)sense reported was due to Asus Vg25 being a model that has higher input lag when using a Nvidia GPU without VRR. It is not replicable on any other model, is a specific model thing. I wish he never ever uploaded that video because the internet is getting flooded with people assuming nvidia GPUs have higher input lag on freesync monitors, wich isn´t true at all. Most of the times the input lag without VRR is actually lower, as shown by rtings.
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