in the picture 1 comparison of the in-game limiter with LLM "Ultra". for overwatch, an in-game limiter is better than rtss and nvidia limiter.poppe wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 15:39I do use G-SYNC @ 240 Hzjorimt wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 14:50You didn't say whether you had a VRR setup, but with G-SYNC, "Ultra" is basically an automatic FPS limiter + MPRF "1."
So, say you limit your FPS to 141 @144Hz with Nvidia's new Max Frame Rate option, and then enabled "Ultra" LLM as well; the ~138 auto limit will take effect instead of your set 141 FPS limit, which is why I recommend setting LLM to "On" when using it in combo with G-SYNC and an in-game or external FPS limiter.
For non-G-SYNC though, an external or in-game limiter + "Ultra" should be fine, as it doesn't have the auto-capping behavior when used with fixed refresh rates.
Reason I'm so confused about latency mode is because of Battlenonsense testing:
https://i.imgur.com/u3ysznI.png
https://i.imgur.com/5HSeMvs.png
Ultra latency mode gives higher input lag even though it "autocaps" FPS. But when GPU load is high then Ultra is better..
So I thought setting Ultra globally for casual games with an FPS cap for DX12 games (since the autocap don't work there) and then for serious games like CS:GO I'll just use LLM "On" with ingame FPS limiter.
Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync ... mment-9288
jorimt
Battle(non)sense just did a video on this:
https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s
It appears Nvidia’s new limiter is effectively a match to the RTSS limiter in both input lag and frametime performance. That said, good in-game limiters still have lower input lag.
He compared the battlefield in-game limiter to the nvidia limiter. frame time when using rtss is still more stable.
jorimt
Battle(non)sense just did a video on this:
https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s
It appears Nvidia’s new limiter is effectively a match to the RTSS limiter in both input lag and frametime performance. That said, good in-game limiters still have lower input lag.
He compared the battlefield in-game limiter to the nvidia limiter. frame time when using rtss is still more stable.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
As far as I'm aware on that, if a game engine doesn't allow external override of the pre-rendered frames queue (yes, I believe Frostbite being one of them), Nvidia quite literally can't at the driver-level, even if they wanted to. It's the reason NULL doesn't currently work with DX12 or Vulkan, both of which manage that aspect on their own.
G-SYNC + V-SYNC + sustained FPS above the refresh rate is virtually the same as standalone V-SYNC actually. The only difference between the two in this scenario, is that whenever the framerate drops below the refresh rate, the former immediately begins syncing the display to the GPU, whereas the latter doesn't.
Those like RealNC have suggested something similar...
Theoretically, it's possible using an external FPS limiter like RTSS; you would set a desired FPS limit offset (say, -3), and then the limiter would monitor the frametime of each frame, and then dynamically limit the FPS slightly below it (e.g. if the average fluctuating FPS is currently 113, the limiter would cap to 110, etc), preventing max GPU usage, and thus reducing the pre-rendered frames queue more than LLM would on it's own. Whether this is practically possible is another question entirely though.
--------
Battle(non)sense claims otherwise. Watch at the 4:33 mark here:
https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s?t=273
I quote:
Then you can simply use the new framerate limiter feature inside the Nvidia Control Panel to not only get the same input delay as you would get with RTSS, but also enjoy the same perfectly stable frametimes, and so consistent input delay.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
Yes, he said so, but in the video itself I did not find a place where he tested it. Only https://imgur.com/cDlcznYjorimt wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 10:07Battle(non)sense claims otherwise. Watch at the 4:33 mark here:
https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s?t=273
I quote:Then you can simply use the new framerate limiter feature inside the Nvidia Control Panel to not only get the same input delay as you would get with RTSS, but also enjoy the same perfectly stable frametimes, and so consistent input delay.
I checked on my own several times. And now I can confidently say that the difference is so insignificant that it seems to me that I'm just making an elephant out of a fly.
https://imgur.com/s8y6I79
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
The new nvidia limiter is a big buggy right now. I've seen a couple people have the issue where after a reboot, the limiter becomes unable to cap to the configured target anymore. Instead, it varies between -10 and -8 compared to your target.
So use carefully right now.
So use carefully right now.
Steam • GitHub • Stack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
I currently play with gsync ON + vsync OFF + -3fps/hz cap + NULL OFF.
My understanding is the input lag benefit would not apply to my setup even tho I'm using gsync as the tested results are with vsync ON?
Can anyone clarify?
My understanding is the input lag benefit would not apply to my setup even tho I'm using gsync as the tested results are with vsync ON?
Can anyone clarify?
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
Correct. With vsync off, a -3 cap is done to prevent tearing, not to prevent input lag.
Steam • GitHub • Stack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
I just noticed NULL doesn't autocap FPS anymore (Driver 442.19).
So what's really the difference between NULL and "On" then? Since there's supposedly no input lag difference.
So what's really the difference between NULL and "On" then? Since there's supposedly no input lag difference.
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
Ultra should still limit the fps, I think. It's probably a bug in the driver (sometimes it doesn't engage for some DX 9-11 games like HALO:MCC, I am not sure if this randomness is limited to the fps capping or the entire LLM functionality). And Ultra was never supposed to work with Vulkan or DX12. Although the FPS slider (fps limiter V3) works with those as well, so my general settings are Ultra + 117 fps limit on the slider.
What I am wondering about if it's normal to have tearing with a low fps cap and G-Sync without V-Sync. When I testes this, I had to go down from 120 (for 120 Hz) to 60-80 and some tearing still remained (always very close to the bottom of the screen, in the HUD area). I wonder if this is different between module based proprietary G-Sync and industry standard HDMI 2.1 VRR or people who say they have no tearing with G-Sync and low fps cap (V-Sync=off) simply aren't perceptive enough to notice the occasional tearline at the bottom. The question is if this difference (if any) has any latency implications with G-Sync+V-Sync and a tight cap (like the usual -3 fps). Could this mean that V-Sync is engaged more often for this setup?
What I am wondering about if it's normal to have tearing with a low fps cap and G-Sync without V-Sync. When I testes this, I had to go down from 120 (for 120 Hz) to 60-80 and some tearing still remained (always very close to the bottom of the screen, in the HUD area). I wonder if this is different between module based proprietary G-Sync and industry standard HDMI 2.1 VRR or people who say they have no tearing with G-Sync and low fps cap (V-Sync=off) simply aren't perceptive enough to notice the occasional tearline at the bottom. The question is if this difference (if any) has any latency implications with G-Sync+V-Sync and a tight cap (like the usual -3 fps). Could this mean that V-Sync is engaged more often for this setup?
Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support
As far as I'm aware, the NULL auto-cap with G-SYNC only engages in (non-DX12/Vulkan) games that allow external manipulation of the pre-rendered frames queue, so that could make support seem spotty from game to game. Could be wrong on this specific point though; Nvidia rarely provides specifics on this sort of thing, so it's difficult to gauge without in-depth user-side testing.
Also, I don't know of any difference between Low Latency "On" and "Ultra" other than the auto FPS limit with G-SYNC, but there is in non-G-SYNC scenarios.
Even with an RTSS limit? If so, that does seem atypical, unless the frametime was micro-spiking near constantly in that instance, which I find unlikely from your description.janos666 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2020, 09:03What I am wondering about if it's normal to have tearing with a low fps cap and G-Sync without V-Sync. When I testes this, I had to go down from 120 (for 120 Hz) to 60-80 and some tearing still remained (always very close to the bottom of the screen, in the HUD area).
Possibly. I assume your display is G-SYNC compatible then? Officially or no? And through HDMI (aka the LG C9) or DisplayPort on a FreeSync monitor?
G-SYNC Compatible being entirely software drive, it is possible VRR performance isn't as "tight" from moment to moment in some scenarios when directly compared to G-SYNC with a module.
Battle(non)sense has already tested G-SYNC Compatible implementation on an officially compatible FreeSync display, and he found G-SYNC + V-SYNC + 138 FPS limit prevents V-SYNC input lag, so I'd say, no, actual V-SYNC behavior probably isn't engaging more in this configuration when compared directly to G-SYNC w/module.
That said, it could be safe to say that it's possible that the frametime compensation mechanic of the V-SYNC option with G-SYNC is having to engage more often with G-SYNC Compatible than with the G-SYNC module in like-for-like scenarios though.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)