MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 May 2020, 10:56

phpBB [video]



+ Motion blur test (turned ON)

phpBB [video]


*credits to Forii, he's very good at doing these UFO tests

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 10 May 2020, 12:04

Indeed. Very good hand-tracking sync to UFOs. Everybody's pursuit camera technique improves with practice.

Mind you I wish YouTube would not compress so goddamn much -- and some phones compress quite a bit much too. They are superior to static photographs for motion interpretation but sometimes degrade certain nuances.

Now, I do prefer portrait pursuit camera rather than landscape pursuit camera. ;)

(Anyway, RLCSContender, keep duplicate threads down, keep same-OP same-monitor chat in same threads. The moderator team would like new-thread-post-rate to be more considerate.)
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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 May 2020, 12:28

Understood

I am done with the 240hz ips since im permanently keeping just one and that is the MSI(i got extremely lucky in the panel lottery with my unit). Im not expected to make any new topics unless im confused about something.

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by Joel D » 10 May 2020, 15:11

Yea I agree that MSI looks good. The UFO blur stuff, I honestly really don't get your guys' debates/arguments there with every link and discussion and example (not just here, but in the entire forums). They all look the same to me, and not that important. I see more blur in real life when I move my hand quickly in front of my face, so why would I try to fix a real organic anomaly that's part of real life ? WAIT, I don't like blurry no, but when comparing it down to these hair splitting differences, that most likely has no impact on actual real usage (watching/playing video), I really don't get the obsession there.

That said.... when seeing it display a actual image, wow, I have to say my worries about the blacks not being black enough go away. Looks beautiful. Colors look good. Is it calibrated yet ? Or was that out the box ? That Joker image looked good ! Better than I thought it could from the blue'ish cloudy black the black screen shot portrayed. lol But I stand corrected and maybe that is just the way the camera makes the black screen look ?

Either way, SWEET ! IMO does look like the best 240hz monitor without a doubt (to me personally). Sold. Glad I came here to help my decision.

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by Joel D » 10 May 2020, 15:24

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
10 May 2020, 12:04
Indeed. Very good hand-tracking sync to UFOs. Everybody's pursuit camera technique improves with practice.

Mind you I wish YouTube would not compress so goddamn much -- and some phones compress quite a bit much too. They are superior to static photographs for motion interpretation but sometimes degrade certain nuances.
So, just from guy that likes to do things right all the time (OCD level) - I observe you guys here with this and my advice is:

#1) Youtube sucks and always has, they are owned by Google which is a demonic company to say the least so I don't support their step on freedom of speech and all their communist (lack of freedom) ways - Sooooo why not take high end HD footage keep it uncompressed and upload it to a share site and have us download the file and watch it from our desktops ? Thats how its really done.
Ban Youtube before we are all standing in lines getting our monthly 5 pound blocks of cheese from them.

#2) This UFO pursuit thing (though you know how I feel about it now, let me help even though I think its pointless) - Don't know why you guys use your hands ? Thats absurd (in a funny nice tone). Since it seems like you all take it so seriously, why not invest in a professional camera stabilizing motion/sweeping stand/tripod and this could be done literally flawless. Some of them are even motorized for complete flawless sweep programable speed, etc.. for under $500 Most others for $200 and under.

Then this whole thing about who does it right, and errors, etc.. can be put to bed. We'd see it for real.

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by vlkfree » 10 May 2020, 15:28

RLCScontender wrote:
10 May 2020, 03:53
Good catch. I stand corrected, it definitely wasn't aligned correctly. That is an oversite on my part. But here's the one that is aligned.

Image
hahahaha awesome !!!
i remember when you said my acer was bad and now you talk about the msi like the better
but it's exactly the same shit with the test than my acer or the asus

hey bro, i don't know why you are like that, but tn is 100x better
if you want or not, the result will be the same

i'm lucky, i didnt trust you at 100%
i bought the msi and the benq, i will see by myself the reality :lol: :lol: :lol:

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MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 10 May 2020, 15:49

Joel D wrote:
10 May 2020, 15:11
They all look the same to me, and not that important.
Valid criticism, but that's mostly a camera issue.

Pictures look the same because of many factors, like smartphone camera de-blurring and auto-color that makes TN photos look similar to IPS photos and vice versa, etc. But that's an entirely different issue from the other rabbit hole:
Joel D wrote:
10 May 2020, 15:11
I see more blur in real life when I move my hand quickly in front of my face, so why would I try to fix a real organic anomaly that's part of real life ? WAIT, I don't like blurry no, but when comparing it down to these hair splitting differences, that most likely has no impact on actual real usage (watching/playing video), I really don't get the obsession there.
Motion blur is good. It is useful when we actually want motion blur. It's beneficial in many contexts.

But please read this:
Human Vision Has Motion Blur. Why Care about Display Motion Blur?
I created a new thread just to reply to you. Even games like Half Life Alyx exists only because VR displays successfully removed motion blur better than most gaming monitors.

TL;DR: Real world doesn't force extra motion blur above-and-beyond human vision. Almost all displays add some mandatory unremovable blur.

Sometimes we want blur. Sometimes we like it (24fps movies). Sometimes we don't mind it. But sometimes we hate it. There are situations where we hate the blur. Other times it's a preference. Some hate tearing, others hate poor color, while others get eyestrain from ANY blur that is above-beyond natural vision. While others don't care or notice. Or only notice in VR. Or only notice in DOTA2 but not CS:GO. Different people are picky in different ways. We just have to respect.
Joel D wrote:
10 May 2020, 15:24
Then this whole thing about who does it right, and errors, etc.. can be put to bed. We'd see it for real.
I created a large thread just to reply to you.
Are Hand-Wave Pursuit Cameras Silly/Stupid?
I even quoted you there -- go click the link. ;)

The bigger problem is camera quality making them all look the same. But the sync track is a certificate of tracking accuracy, and there are vastly superior handwaves than all the forum posts here.

With a proper camera, you'd be surprised.
-- The best handwave pursuits outperform some rail-based reviewers, thanks to sheer number of samples (burst-shoot, video as a burst-shoot surrogage). 1000 photos in 1 minute without a rail, versus 20 photos in 1 minute with a rail. Sometimes the brute sample-rate provides opportunities of a handwave-outperform-rail.
-- The best rail-based manual pursuit camera outperformed a $30,000 motorized camera rig because of many unsolvable error margins in a motorized rig. Peer reviewed science paper included, co-authored by NIST.gov, NOKIA, Keltek.

Image Image Image Image
(Peer reviewed. I'm co-author.)

While the cheap smartphones are crap, I have heard from a few Ph.D that now agree handwave good cameras has merit when brute samplerate can compensate, so for more info, please read here.

References
  1. Human Vision Has Motion Blur. Why Care about Display Motion Blur?
  2. Are Hand-Wave Pursuit Cameras Silly/Stupid?
(New threads created that quotes Joel concerns)

We are Blur Busters. We earn money doing this stuff. We automatically are anal about it -- if we have to drop millions of microphones, we will. :D

But, yup, your right, smartphones are often crap (the overprocessing/filtering/etc that makes them look all the same), but if you look closer to the professional handwave photos instead, they actually reveal rail-based-quality too. There are handwave Sony a6000's superior to rail-based Sony a6000's and cheap motorized Sony a6000's. . But handwave is not necessarily crap at all. Human eyes are not on a rail and don't track perfectly either, there are actually many opportunities to engineer the error margins to overlap between human eyes and handwave cameras with the right kind of magic. The two characteristics (handwave accuracy + smartphone quality) independently layer on each other, but are separate issues. The magic is the brute-force spray of 10fps-30fps creates large numbers of samples that compensates for lower accuracy. Brute force sample count creates occasional chances (1 in 1000) of high-accuracy track. Sometimes all a person has is time, so that 1000 photos is cheaper than 1 photo from motorized. And still produces 1-in-1000 photo with a sync track more accurate/clearer than the sync track of a motorized. The sheer scientific samplerate and the lower budget (time vs money) has already legitimized handwaves among researchers / Ph.Ds under certain conditions. If you don't believe me, please read here. Nonwithstanding, yes, some people try to boast that their crappy-smartphone-but-good-tracking hobby pursuit is superior to reviewers -- but I try to walk the fine line of encouraging hobbyist pursuits as smartphone cameras gets better and better. You see me do this. They can be limited science but does incubate further improvement as I determine which phones are better and which phones are worse. Now, the other thread has some better WYSIWYG examples than the same-looking pursuits.
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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by RedCloudFuneral » 10 May 2020, 17:30

I don't remember which of the many MSI OPTIX MAG251RX threads it was discussed in(I've poked into each one and cannot find the discussion) but how can this monitor have around 120% SRGB when MSI claims its only 100%. Is there panel variation that can get you above average saturation or are MSI being modest? I haven't seen any company selling a 240hz+ IPS claiming wide-gamut colors and from what I see on the various display roadmaps the panels that can do vibrant colors & 240hz are still in development.

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 May 2020, 18:50

vlkfree wrote:
10 May 2020, 15:28
RLCScontender wrote:
10 May 2020, 03:53
Good catch. I stand corrected, it definitely wasn't aligned correctly. That is an oversite on my part. But here's the one that is aligned.

Image
hahahaha awesome !!!
i remember when you said my acer was bad and now you talk about the msi like the better
but it's exactly the same shit with the test than my acer or the asus

hey bro, i don't know why you are like that, but tn is 100x better
if you want or not, the result will be the same

i'm lucky, i didnt trust you at 100%
i bought the msi and the benq, i will see by myself the reality :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by RLCScontender on 10 May 2020, 19:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 May 2020, 18:54

vlkfree wrote:
10 May 2020, 15:28
RLCScontender wrote:
10 May 2020, 03:53
Good catch. I stand corrected, it definitely wasn't aligned correctly. That is an oversite on my part. But here's the one that is aligned.

Image
hahahaha awesome !!!
i remember when you said my acer was bad and now you talk about the msi like the better
but it's exactly the same shit with the test than my acer or the asus

hey bro, i don't know why you are like that, but tn is 100x better
if you want or not, the result will be the same

i'm lucky, i didnt trust you at 100%
i bought the msi and the benq, i will see by myself the reality :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your Acer is definitely still slower than the MSI. The middle overdrive with 0% overshoot isn't nearly as quick as the MSI's 3rd overdrive at slight overshoot

Image\
Image


i might it slightly smaller and as you can see, the MSI is clearly SHARPER than your blurry Acer.


obviously, it may "look" the same but it's because my photo is zoomed unlike your Acer. I've shrunk the photo and it's VERY VERY VERY obvious that the MSI is WAYYYYY sharper than your Acer.


Anyway, i found the g2g average for the Acer predator. it's 4.2ms g2g on its middle(normal) overdrive. that is definitely still slower than the MSI And the 280hz ASUS.

all of the Acer Nitro and Acer predator's have the same problem. They don't have a 3rd overdrive setting to compete with the alienware, MSI, and Asus. But insead, rely on the middle overdrive with 0% overshoot. The problem with that is, although there's 0% overshoot,it's not maximizing its speed capacity of the panel.

I would rather take 3ms g2g with 6-8% overshoot than 4.2 g2g with 0% overshoot. The MSi's slight overshoot is NOT NOTICEABLE at 240hz anyway because the panel is refreshing so fast.

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