244hz question

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
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Felicity
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Re: 244hz question

Post by Felicity » 02 Sep 2020, 17:45

I disagree in use cases of cpu bound games and not gpu bound games. No one I know who played any comp game at a high level, with rare exceptions of people who didn't know how to tune their motherboards, preferred gsync on even when properly configured. I gave it a hard shot and it made me feel... slow. Just a bit. Just enough to throw me off. At first it felt great, and then I realized I was just not seeing the same things.

My advice with gsync is not just 'no its the same' it's 'can you absolutely blow past your refresh rate and your .1% lows never go near it? if so, there's literally no point to gsync unless you see tearing badly'.

only the blurbusters mafia seems to be on this gsync train but that's understandable, it does look quite good when gpu bound under refresh rate... but you must understand the use case is LOW settings on a 1080p or lower resolution. the goal is to be ABOVE refresh rate, not assumptions of below it. If you are below your refresh rate for any reason in a competitive game, fix ur pc first.

edit: I guess you said this several times already but implying we are locking at 238hz the same as gsync is not good comparison testing

>So, for competitive players, V-SYNC OFF still reigns supreme in the input lag realm, especially if sustained framerates can exceed the refresh rate by 5x or more.

I don't get this. Even just a 1.25x improvement removes the need for reduced buffering in many cases from 240hz. 5x? Are we on 60hz to begin with?

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jorimt
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Re: 244hz question

Post by jorimt » 02 Sep 2020, 19:21

Felicity wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 17:45
I disagree in use cases of cpu bound games and not gpu bound games.
I think I've made it very clear I was predominately referring to G-SYNC vs. no sync at the same FPS within the refresh rate. At that point, the primary difference, is with no sync, you're getting a single frame (tearline) in varying offsets with the scanout, which gives you little to no input lag advantage on average, just a tear and less even frame delivery, whereas no sync with framerates well above the refresh rate is an entirely different beast due to multiple tear slices in a single scanout.
Felicity wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 17:45
My advice with gsync is not just 'no its the same' it's 'can you absolutely blow past your refresh rate and your .1% lows never go near it? if so, there's literally no point to gsync unless you see tearing badly'.
The only way to achieve native, 1:1 scanout/single frame alignment without additional sync-induced input lag or stutter is G-SYNC. Again, I wasn't specifically focusing on no sync with framerates above the refresh rate.
Felicity wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 17:45
only the blurbusters mafia seems to be on this gsync train but that's understandable, it does look quite good when gpu bound under refresh rate... but you must understand the use case is LOW settings on a 1080p or lower resolution. the goal is to be ABOVE refresh rate, not assumptions of below it. If you are below your refresh rate for any reason in a competitive game, fix ur pc first.
Really? I think I'm incredibly reserved when it comes to G-SYNC proselytizing; if you look at any of my previous material, I never once say it's the only way to go. I don't even advocate it. I only advocate players use what they prefer. It's an option.

I even said as much in an earlier post here:
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That all said, G-SYNC is just an option. Try both G-SYNC on and G-SYNC off, and make your own decision based on your own tolerances and preferences. If it feels better to you, keep it on, if not, turn it off, simple as that.
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I agree tearing artifacts are much less of an issue if your system can sustain and reach framerates high above the refresh rate, but in the case of Apex, that's not practical at, say, 240Hz, so G-SYNC can still be an option to eliminate tearing and increase consistency at a fixed FPS cap. Again though, you can go either way. It's up to the player.
Felicity wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 17:45
I don't get this. Even just a 1.25x improvement removes the need for reduced buffering in many cases from 240hz. 5x? Are we on 60hz to begin with?
First of, if you had read all of my previous posts in this thread, you would have seen me say:
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If you can't tolerate tearing artifacts, use G-SYNC. If tearing artifacts don't bother you, your framerate can exceed your refresh rate by at least 2x times, and you want the lowest input lag possible (in the context of sync lag), turn G-SYNC (and V-SYNC) off, and uncap your framerate.
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Secondly, no sync does not directly reduce buffering over capped G-SYNC, this only applies to uncapped V-SYNC behavior. In fact, if your system is GPU bound with no sync + framerates above the refresh rate (just as an example), you have more potential lag due to an increase in the pre-rendered frames queue than you did if you played with G-SYNC and an appropriate FPS cap that prevented max GPU usage in the same scenario.

So it isn't quite that cut and dry.

Also, while there is a difference, there isn't a huge measurable difference in average input lag levels between G-SYNC and no sync at 240+ Hz:

Image

Again though, as I said in my last post, this doesn't mean there isn't a different overall "feel," as both deliver frames differently.

And yes, the lower the refresh rate you have, the more input lag advantage you have with no sync over G-SYNC. But this isn't because G-SYNC "adds" input lag, it's because no sync defeats the scanout.
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RealNC
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Re: 244hz question

Post by RealNC » 03 Sep 2020, 07:32

Felicity wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 17:45
only the blurbusters mafia seems to be on this gsync train but that's understandable, it does look quite good when gpu bound under refresh rate... but you must understand the use case is LOW settings on a 1080p or lower resolution. the goal is to be ABOVE refresh rate, not assumptions of below it. If you are below your refresh rate for any reason in a competitive game, fix ur pc first.
Before saying this nonsense, you should probably read through the gsync tests first. It is made perfectly clear that if you need to cap your FPS to stay in range will increase latencies.
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1000WATT
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Re: 244hz question

Post by 1000WATT » 03 Sep 2020, 10:19

blurbusters mafia - I like it)
Felicity wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 17:45
only the blurbusters mafia seems to be on this gsync train but that's understandable
Now you come and say "Don RealNC, give me justice." But you don't ask with respect. You don't offer friendship. You don't even think to call me "Godfather." You come into my house on the day my daughter is to be married and you ask me to do murder - for money.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

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