internet latency & effects on hit registration

[nuggify]

User Ekwalipt mentioned something very crucial in this thread.

...
People should know that their level of play is actually much, much higher than they think.
...
As I said, my goal is to break through this global problem with input lag to the masses, so that people know that in fact their level of play is much, much higher than they think. All eSports players are ordinary people who have ideal conditions for playing (input lag is 0), which is why there are very few eSports players, because there are very few people who do not have Input lag(you Need perfect electricity without electromagnetic interference). Some people have less Input lag, others have more, and eSports players do not have any at all, and this is unfair.

This guy knows what's up but he ultimately came to the wrong conclusions. This has nothing to do with electricity & electromagnetic interference and has everything to do with internet and what i have explained above.

Actually hes not wrong. This is absolutely an electrical issue for some of us. It does not matter whether we are connected to internet at all for our problems to be present.

[mello]

oh shit thats why it happens without a internet in offline mode

Wrong thread buddy. This is a completely different issue to what some other people are experiencing. If the problems occur on desktop & offline, then this obviously does not have anything to do with the internet.

Actually hes not wrong. This is absolutely an electrical issue for some of us. It does not matter whether we are connected to internet at all for our problems to be present.

ONLY if it happens also on desktop & in offline mode. I'm also unable to verify what kind of issues & input lag problems other people are experiencing and i suspect the manifestation of the problem is completely different to what i'm describing and what is caused by bad internet essentially. If the problems occur only when gaming online, then obviously it has nothing to do with electricity. I have seen many times before people going crazy about this stuff and thinking it must be electricity, when in fact it was internet related issue all along. The biggest misconception for people are things like ping / latency and throughput. They automatically assume that if they have low ping, no lags / no ping spikes and good throughput (fibre 1Gb/s for example) then they are set and there is nothing more to it, but they are completely wrong. This is why, some of them are chasing their own tails for years or decades and are unable to find a solution to their problems.

[nuggify]

oh shit thats why it happens without a internet in offline mode

Wrong thread buddy. This is a completely different issue to what some other people are experiencing. If the problems occur on desktop & offline, then this obviously does not have anything to do with the internet.

Then maybe don't quote someone (Ekwalipt) that was specifically talking about the electricity related input problems in a thread that he created when he himself has confirmed beyond doubt that it cannot be internet related. You said he had it wrong that it was electrical in nature, but I can assure you he did not as I have been in contact with him and he certainly has the same issues I do.

ONLY if it happens also on desktop & in offline mode. I'm also unable to verify what kind of issues & input lag problems other people are experiencing and i suspect the manifestation of the problem is completely different to what i'm describing and what is caused by bad internet essentially. If the problems occur only when gaming online, then obviously it has nothing to do with electricity. I have seen many times before people going crazy about this stuff and thinking it must be electricity, when in fact it was internet related issue all along. The biggest misconception for people are things like ping / latency and throughput. They automatically assume that if they have low ping, no lags / no ping spikes and good throughput (fibre 1Gb/s for example) then they are set and there is nothing more to it, but they are completely wrong. This is why, some of them are chasing their own tails for years or decades and are unable to find a solution to their problems.

Hey look I am open minded. If I have seen with my own eyes how a very strange electrical issue can cause issues like this then I can certainly believe that some strange ISP side issues could cause something very similar. One day we will know what exactly causes these problems but for now we will just need to discuss this in good faith and hopefully respect each other- that in our own cases we have adequately ruled out enough to say with confidence if it is electrical or network related. Spare us the condescension when you yourself are in a similar camp- suffering a problem that is very hard to diagnose through measurements, but clearly there are irregularities and cause for questions regarding performance across many different hardware or software configurations.

Maybe I should add that the creator of this very thread confirmed that his issues were not network related but were actually the same issue that I have as well- affected strangely by the electrical setup. Its clear that there is enough overlap between the two that there should be some discussion about this. Although I think anyone wondering if their performance problems may be this or that, should first and foremost verify that:
A. Its not the software.
B. Its not the hardware.
C. Does it happen only online or offline as well.

Then and only then should people explore whether it is electrically caused.

As far as I know these two PC issues (of this nature) are the only two technical problems you cannot solve via replacing software or hardware. I am certainly curious what the cause is for these strange net issues is, and I think your theory that it could be the unintended consequences of ISP throttling sounds feasible. Do you have any data that could shed light on this?

[MatrixQW]

Apart from all these issues, disable Windows network throttling to see if it helps.
It did for me for the game I play.

Quote from Microsoft's article (for W7 but still applies to W10):
"In some cases, by connecting correctly to a network game, you could experience a slow performance (lag), with pauses or jumps between the video's actions.

https://ttcshelbyville.wordpress.com/20 ... ing-index/
https://support.microsoft.com/es-es/help/2445848

[mello]

Then maybe don't quote someone that was specifically talking about the electricity related input problems in a thread that he created when he himself has confirmed beyond doubt that it cannot be internet related.

I haven't seen him mentioning that, electricity was only his assumption as a possible culprit.
But his whole definition & description of the problem fits perfectly into internet related issues.

Hey look I am open minded. If I have seen with my own eyes how a very strange electrical issue can cause issues like this then I can certainly believe that some strange ISP side issues could cause something very similar. One day we will know what exactly causes it and we will have our answers but for now we will just need to discuss this in good faith, that in our own cases we have adequately ruled out enough to say with confidence what is the cause for the problems. Spare us the condescension when you yourself are in a similar camp- a problem that is very hard to diagnose through measurements, but there are clearly irregularities and cause for questions.

Dude, i have been gaming online since 1997 and i have seen these problems creeping up over time and have been deeply affected by them. I have seen people making all kinds of crazy assumptions about what the problem is over the years to no avail. The problem has been known and has been identified in ADSL / DSL days when ISP's started using automated monitoring systems like DLM (Dynamic Line Management). This is when fast path mode was basically converted & forced into interleave mode, and this is exactly when different people started getting massive problems when playing FPS games online. This was supposed to fix network congestion problems due to massive influx of people at that time who started getting their own (often first time ever) home internet connections. But an undesirable side effect of that is poor FPS gaming performance. This also affects how the mouse movement feels when aiming, including controlling the recoil and tracking enemies among many other things. And because of that many people incorrectly attributed this to problem with mouse > usb ports > electricity & interference. The key thing to understand is, if the problem occurs only when gaming online (FPS games) and not on desktop & when using other applications, then the problem is poor internet connection and nothing else. If mouse feels weird / inconsistent on desktop then we are talking about completely different issue.

Maybe I should add that the creator of this very thread confirmed that his issues were not network related but were actually the same issue that I have as well- affected strangely by the electrical setup.

I have seen people claiming many things, including fixing the issue, but after few days / few weeks they always came to the realization that the problem has not been fixed. I'm quite confident that the creator of this thread is incorrect in his own assumptions, this includes the claim that this is not a network related issue.

Its clear that there is enough overlap between the two that there should be some discussion about this.

Except there isn't. It's just that people are unable to describe the issues they are having precisely enough. Saying that your mouse feels weird, that aiming doesn't feel smooth or that you think that you are affected by some kind of input lag is not exactly what i would describe as good enough & precise information. And this is exactly what most people are doing when seeking help.

Also, there isn't an overlap between the two issues simply because electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to produce that kind of changes within the game dynamics & mechanics. It would, possibly, be able to produce stutter, freezes, lags / ping spikes, fps drops, packet loss, that kind of thing, but never the kind of things that people are experiencing. So, electrical interference would be able to produce random artifacts, not game-specific (in relation to game dynamics & mechanics) artifacts. Therefore, the issue i'm describing here is clearly not a random artifact, but a deliberate (targetted) man-made artifact done via software. It doesn't feel random in relation to the things being affected, only the degree and intensity of the problem changes. It perfectly fits into the idea of constantly changning line conditions during different times of the day, based on how many people are using internet and to what degree this creates a problem known as network congestion. All the gaming issues fit perfectly into a very specific network packets, and these are UDP packets on the upstream channel. If these packets are being affected in the way i'm describing, then it would explain perfectly everything people see & feel that is happening on their screens while playing FPS games online. Electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to work as precisely and only on certain network packets and create constant and very specific issues in relation to game dynamics & mechanics. It can essentially can only be done by something that controls the packets directly. This is where ISP and their particular and automated network monitoring system comes into play. This is the root cause and a culprit for everything that is happening to many gamers online. An occam's razor principle.

Although I think anyone wondering if their performance problems may be this or that, should first and foremost verify that:
A. Its not the software.
B. Its not the hardware.
C. Does it happen only online or offline as well.

Then and only then should people explore whether it is electrically caused.

Correct. But keep in mind that people can be mistakenly swayed into researching potential electrical causes, just because they have exhausted all other possible explanations (at least to the best of their knowledge). For some people there might be also a placebo effect in play and the fact that this problem sometimes briefly goes away or is less noticeable. And this in return might cause a false sense that the change that was made actually made an impact or improved things.

I am certainly curious what the cause is for these strange net issues is, and I think your theory that it could be the unintended consequences of ISP throttling sounds feasible. Do you have any data that could shed light on this?

Have been doing that on this forum for many years now. Apart from my recent posts (and many older ones), which describe what is really going on, the reason why ISP would decide to throttle upstream channel is because IIRC, it is a direct culprit of network disturbances and this has always been the case. So, instead of increasing, improving and expanding the reliability and resilience of the network, they are introducing shortcuts which causes unintended consequences in online FPS games. People need to remember that ISP's do not care about gamers, this is not their target or main concern. They want to have as many subscribers as possible with the single aim of eliminating or limiting network disconnections to minimum.

[Unixko]

Then maybe don't quote someone that was specifically talking about the electricity related input problems in a thread that he created when he himself has confirmed beyond doubt that it cannot be internet related.

I haven't seen him mentioning that, electricity was only his assumption as a possible culprit.
But his whole definition & description of the problem fits perfectly into internet related issues.

Hey look I am open minded. If I have seen with my own eyes how a very strange electrical issue can cause issues like this then I can certainly believe that some strange ISP side issues could cause something very similar. One day we will know what exactly causes it and we will have our answers but for now we will just need to discuss this in good faith, that in our own cases we have adequately ruled out enough to say with confidence what is the cause for the problems. Spare us the condescension when you yourself are in a similar camp- a problem that is very hard to diagnose through measurements, but there are clearly irregularities and cause for questions.

Dude, i have been gaming online since 1997 and i have seen these problems creeping up over time and have been deeply affected by them. I have seen people making all kinds of crazy assumptions about what the problem is over the years to no avail. The problem has been known and has been identified in ADSL / DSL days when ISP's started using automated monitoring systems like DLM (Dynamic Line Management). This is when fast path mode was basically converted & forced into interleave mode, and this is exactly when different people started getting massive problems when playing FPS games online. This was supposed to fix network congestion problems due to massive influx of people at that time who started getting their own (often first time ever) home internet connections. But an undesirable side effect of that is poor FPS gaming performance. This also affects how the mouse movement feels when aiming, including controlling the recoil and tracking enemies among many other things. And because of that many people incorrectly attributed this to problem with mouse > usb ports > electricity & interference. The key thing to understand is, if the problem occurs only when gaming online (FPS games) and not on desktop & when using other applications, then the problem is poor internet connection and nothing else. If mouse feels weird / inconsistent on desktop then we are talking about completely different issue.

Maybe I should add that the creator of this very thread confirmed that his issues were not network related but were actually the same issue that I have as well- affected strangely by the electrical setup.

I have seen people claiming many things, including fixing the issue, but after few days / few weeks they always came to the realization that the problem has not been fixed. I'm quite confident that the creator of this thread is incorrect in his own assumptions, this includes the claim that this is not a network related issue.

Its clear that there is enough overlap between the two that there should be some discussion about this.

Except there isn't. It's just that people are unable to describe the issues they are having precisely enough. Saying that your mouse feels weird, that aiming doesn't feel smooth or that you think that you are affected by some kind of input lag is not exactly what i would describe as good enough & precise information. And this is exactly what most people are doing when seeking help.

Also, there isn't an overlap between the two issues simply because electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to produce that kind of changes within the game dynamics & mechanics. It would, possibly, be able to produce stutter, freezes, lags / ping spikes, fps drops, packet loss, that kind of thing, but never the kind of things that people are experiencing. So, electrical interference would be able to produce random artifacts, not game-specific (in relation to game dynamics & mechanics) artifacts. Therefore, the issue i'm describing here is clearly not a random artifact, but a deliberate (targetted) man-made artifact done via software. It doesn't feel random in relation to the things being affected, only the degree and intensity of the problem changes. It perfectly fits into the idea of constantly changning line conditions during different times of the day, based on how many people are using internet and to what degree this creates a problem known as network congestion. All the gaming issues fit perfectly into a very specific network packets, and these are UDP packets on the upstream channel. If these packets are being affected in the way i'm describing, then it would explain perfectly everything people see & feel that is happening on their screens while playing FPS games online. Electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to work as precisely and only on certain network packets and create constant and very specific issues in relation to game dynamics & mechanics. It can essentially can only be done by something that controls the packets directly. This is where ISP and their particular and automated network monitoring system comes into play. This is the root cause and a culprit for everything that is happening to many gamers online. An occam's razor principle.

Although I think anyone wondering if their performance problems may be this or that, should first and foremost verify that:
A. Its not the software.
B. Its not the hardware.
C. Does it happen only online or offline as well.

Then and only then should people explore whether it is electrically caused.

Correct. But keep in mind that people can be mistakenly swayed into researching potential electrical causes, just because they have exhausted all other possible explanations (at least to the best of their knowledge). For some people there might be also a placebo effect in play and the fact that this problem sometimes briefly goes away or is less noticeable. And this in return might cause a false sense that the change that was made actually made an impact or improved things.

I am certainly curious what the cause is for these strange net issues is, and I think your theory that it could be the unintended consequences of ISP throttling sounds feasible. Do you have any data that could shed light on this?

Have been doing that on this forum for many years now. Apart from my recent posts (and many older ones), which describe what is really going on, the reason why ISP would decide to throttle upstream channel is because IIRC, it is a direct culprit of network disturbances and this has always been the case. So, instead of increasing, improving and expanding the reliability and resilience of the network, they are introducing shortcuts which causes unintended consequences in online FPS games. People need to remember that ISP's do not care about gamers, this is not their target or main concern. They want to have as many subscribers as possible with the single aim of eliminating or limiting network disconnections to minimum.

interesting i want to see how internet affect mouse movement in general
so if my keyboard is not responsive to its because internet ? i dont think so
i living in 12 floor apartments and i am in 3 floor with issue but friend on 12 floor doesnt have issue same provider ISP everything what is going on then

[nick4567]

Then maybe don't quote someone that was specifically talking about the electricity related input problems in a thread that he created when he himself has confirmed beyond doubt that it cannot be internet related.

I haven't seen him mentioning that, electricity was only his assumption as a possible culprit.
But his whole definition & description of the problem fits perfectly into internet related issues.

Hey look I am open minded. If I have seen with my own eyes how a very strange electrical issue can cause issues like this then I can certainly believe that some strange ISP side issues could cause something very similar. One day we will know what exactly causes it and we will have our answers but for now we will just need to discuss this in good faith, that in our own cases we have adequately ruled out enough to say with confidence what is the cause for the problems. Spare us the condescension when you yourself are in a similar camp- a problem that is very hard to diagnose through measurements, but there are clearly irregularities and cause for questions.

Dude, i have been gaming online since 1997 and i have seen these problems creeping up over time and have been deeply affected by them. I have seen people making all kinds of crazy assumptions about what the problem is over the years to no avail. The problem has been known and has been identified in ADSL / DSL days when ISP's started using automated monitoring systems like DLM (Dynamic Line Management). This is when fast path mode was basically converted & forced into interleave mode, and this is exactly when different people started getting massive problems when playing FPS games online. This was supposed to fix network congestion problems due to massive influx of people at that time who started getting their own (often first time ever) home internet connections. But an undesirable side effect of that is poor FPS gaming performance. This also affects how the mouse movement feels when aiming, including controlling the recoil and tracking enemies among many other things. And because of that many people incorrectly attributed this to problem with mouse > usb ports > electricity & interference. The key thing to understand is, if the problem occurs only when gaming online (FPS games) and not on desktop & when using other applications, then the problem is poor internet connection and nothing else. If mouse feels weird / inconsistent on desktop then we are talking about completely different issue.

Maybe I should add that the creator of this very thread confirmed that his issues were not network related but were actually the same issue that I have as well- affected strangely by the electrical setup.

I have seen people claiming many things, including fixing the issue, but after few days / few weeks they always came to the realization that the problem has not been fixed. I'm quite confident that the creator of this thread is incorrect in his own assumptions, this includes the claim that this is not a network related issue.

Its clear that there is enough overlap between the two that there should be some discussion about this.

Except there isn't. It's just that people are unable to describe the issues they are having precisely enough. Saying that your mouse feels weird, that aiming doesn't feel smooth or that you think that you are affected by some kind of input lag is not exactly what i would describe as good enough & precise information. And this is exactly what most people are doing when seeking help.

Also, there isn't an overlap between the two issues simply because electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to produce that kind of changes within the game dynamics & mechanics. It would, possibly, be able to produce stutter, freezes, lags / ping spikes, fps drops, packet loss, that kind of thing, but never the kind of things that people are experiencing. So, electrical interference would be able to produce random artifacts, not game-specific (in relation to game dynamics & mechanics) artifacts. Therefore, the issue i'm describing here is clearly not a random artifact, but a deliberate (targetted) man-made artifact done via software. It doesn't feel random in relation to the things being affected, only the degree and intensity of the problem changes. It perfectly fits into the idea of constantly changning line conditions during different times of the day, based on how many people are using internet and to what degree this creates a problem known as network congestion. All the gaming issues fit perfectly into a very specific network packets, and these are UDP packets on the upstream channel. If these packets are being affected in the way i'm describing, then it would explain perfectly everything people see & feel that is happening on their screens while playing FPS games online. Electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to work as precisely and only on certain network packets and create constant and very specific issues in relation to game dynamics & mechanics. It can essentially can only be done by something that controls the packets directly. This is where ISP and their particular and automated network monitoring system comes into play. This is the root cause and a culprit for everything that is happening to many gamers online. An occam's razor principle.

Although I think anyone wondering if their performance problems may be this or that, should first and foremost verify that:
A. Its not the software.
B. Its not the hardware.
C. Does it happen only online or offline as well.

Then and only then should people explore whether it is electrically caused.

Correct. But keep in mind that people can be mistakenly swayed into researching potential electrical causes, just because they have exhausted all other possible explanations (at least to the best of their knowledge). For some people there might be also a placebo effect in play and the fact that this problem sometimes briefly goes away or is less noticeable. And this in return might cause a false sense that the change that was made actually made an impact or improved things.

I am certainly curious what the cause is for these strange net issues is, and I think your theory that it could be the unintended consequences of ISP throttling sounds feasible. Do you have any data that could shed light on this?

Have been doing that on this forum for many years now. Apart from my recent posts (and many older ones), which describe what is really going on, the reason why ISP would decide to throttle upstream channel is because IIRC, it is a direct culprit of network disturbances and this has always been the case. So, instead of increasing, improving and expanding the reliability and resilience of the network, they are introducing shortcuts which causes unintended consequences in online FPS games. People need to remember that ISP's do not care about gamers, this is not their target or main concern. They want to have as many subscribers as possible with the single aim of eliminating or limiting network disconnections to minimum.

how can it happen with a dedicated line if its network congestion there is no congestion with dia its unshared through and through no local congestion and its deffinitely not one of the multiple 50,000 dollar routers at the isps headend thats experiencing congestion or else everyone within a 50 mile radius would be experiencing this

[nuggify]

I haven't seen him mentioning that, electricity was only his assumption as a possible culprit.
But his whole definition & description of the problem fits perfectly into internet related issues.

Well maybe you need to go back and revisit the thread. He is clear about his theory that it is electrical in nature, despite the fact that he is not well versed in the technical side of electrical problems. You just proved once again that these problems are very similar by saying the symptoms that we have posted again and again about are very close to the ones you guys get only while playing online. The difference is that for many of us our system is ALWAYS like that. Be it desktop, offline games, online games- what have you. We have been more clear about our symptoms than you have and have gone into great detail on many of the threads. I will state them again so you can drill it into your thick skull and stop acting like your above us. Mouse is highly inaccurate, the cursor feels heavy or way too fast as if it is accelerated despite having all acceleration disabled. Mouse micro adjustments are near impossible and building muscle memory is completely out of the question as it tracks wildly differently by the hour. Adding ferrite cores, using online UPS, lifting ground prong, using power conditioners, changing the placement or proximity of routers etc all have instantaneous affect on cursor tracking (I can state many more things that have affect). Keyboard inputs and mouse clicks are delayed and or dropped often, this varies as well. Monitor display is degraded, motion is blurred, AA is almost non existent (very jagged edges), colors washed out, and there is severe hitching. Network performance both WIFI and wired are poor, there is desync in games as if we are not seeing the same thing our opponents see timing wise. Severe stuttering at times (in fact my game reports the stutters as resource stalls per minute). All of these things are affected instantaneously when we change something about our electrical setup. It is nearly always temporary however and the problem eventually degrades back to the point it was at before the changes. The problem varies throughout the day as well likely a result of load on the electrical system but without being able to say what the cause is we cannot know this for sure. This is beyond placebo and I would hope that you could respect that. I do believe however that I have a particularly severe case of this problem and so to me it is all abundantly clear.

This also affects how the mouse movement feels when aiming, including controlling the recoil and tracking enemies among many other things. And because of that many people incorrectly attributed this to problem with mouse > usb ports > electricity & interference. The key thing to understand is, if the problem occurs only when gaming online (FPS games) and not on desktop & when using other applications, then the problem is poor internet connection and nothing else. If mouse feels weird / inconsistent on desktop then we are talking about completely different issue.

It just so happens that people with severe input problems, desync and the like overlap because these two issues are the only external to hardware or software problems that can cause this. Its interesting you only mention FPS games. Does it affect other games? For reference I do not even play FPS games, I play many other competitive genres and this electrical problem affects them all equally.

I do not think it is a result of USB ports or the mouse in particular being affected at all. I believe the logic controller of the PC itself is being screwed up which causes a cascading affect on our PCs. This is explainable via common mode noise.

This white paper details much of that: http://www.gryphon-inc.com/PDF%20Litera ... 0Paper.pdf

Of note:
"How does common mode noise enter a Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS)? The “common” side of the output of most Switch Mode power supplies is connected to the metal chassis of equipment that it powers. This is the same chassis that is connected to the incoming power line ground wire for safety. It is through this potential path that common mode noise often passes from the power line to the computer based equipment. There is a probability that some portion of this noise will pass through the power supply and into the system logic. While the SMPS itself can be damaged by the noise if it is too great, it is more likely that the semiconductor devices in the equipment will be disrupted or damaged by this noise."

"Common mode noise (and all other electrical noise, for that matter) can also find unexpected paths through a system. The frequency of the noise (cycles per second) and rate of change (dv/dt) can have a profound impact on the path noise takes, sometimes bypassing the intended conductors and causing unpredictable operation."

I have seen people claiming many things, including fixing the issue, but after few days / few weeks they always came to the realization that the problem has not been fixed. I'm quite confident that the creator of this thread is incorrect in his own assumptions, this includes the claim that this is not a network related issue.

Ive gone into this plenty now that the way this issue manifests, it can certainly come and go and practically anything that seems to help at first will degrade relatively soon after. For instance many, many people tried the low tier Furman power conditioners. Nearly every single one reported that it helped immensely, initially but soon after it almost completely stopped working (there is still very minor affect when using conditioner vs using a normal power strip). I own this conditioner and that was my experience. My personal theory for this is that the capacitors become saturated, or likely even become damaged in some way. One thing is certain, which is that the conditioner is doing something to improve the symptoms at first.

Its clear that there is enough overlap between the two that there should be some discussion about this.

Except there isn't. It's just that people are unable to describe the issues they are having precisely enough. Saying that your mouse feels weird, that aiming doesn't feel smooth or that you think that you are affected by some kind of input lag is not exactly what i would describe as good enough & precise information. And this is exactly what most people are doing when seeking help.

Also, there isn't an overlap between the two issues simply because electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to produce that kind of changes within the game dynamics & mechanics.

Electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to work as precisely and only on certain network packets and create constant and very specific issues in relation to game dynamics & mechanics. It can essentially can only be done by something that controls the packets directly. This is where ISP and their particular and automated network monitoring system comes into play. This is the root cause and a culprit for everything that is happening to many gamers online. An occam's razor principle.

Yes there is overlap between the issues and that is the very reason you have people confused about what is what. You vastly underestimate how complex this electrical issue actually is. The very affects I have personally observed simply put seem like black magic at times. However we know that electrical interference currents being where they are not supposed to be can cause a domino affect of strange issues. In fact I have no doubt that my electrical problems are intertwined to a great degree with the ISP network. I should state some of my strange observations here. Changing virtually any Wifi router setting instantaneously makes my mouse tracking smoother and more precise temporarily. This is case whether or not I am connected to the internet. Using a VPN when connected to the net makes video streams very smooth and game play improves. Placing common mode chokes (ferrites/toriod cores) on my coax at the ISP drop has dramatic affects on all of the issues. Using a fiber media converter straight to my PC with a fiber PCIE NIC card has had notable benefit for my input issues.

Correct. But keep in mind that people can be mistakenly swayed into researching potential electrical causes, just because they have exhausted all other possible explanations (at least to the best of their knowledge). For some people there might be also a placebo effect in play and the fact that this problem sometimes briefly goes away or is less noticeable. And this in return might cause a false sense that the change that was made actually made an impact or improved things.

I am certainly curious what the cause is for these strange net issues is, and I think your theory that it could be the unintended consequences of ISP throttling sounds feasible. Do you have any data that could shed light on this?

Have been doing that on this forum for many years now. Apart from my recent posts (and many older ones), which describe what is really going on, the reason why ISP would decide to throttle upstream channel is because IIRC, it is a direct culprit of network disturbances and this has always been the case. So, instead of increasing, improving and expanding the reliability and resilience of the network, they are introducing shortcuts which causes unintended consequences in online FPS games. People need to remember that ISP's do not care about gamers, this is not their target or main concern. They want to have as many subscribers as possible with the single aim of eliminating or limiting network disconnections to minimum.

Ok so you have a theory, but zero data to back it up and so that puts you into the same camp that the folks with electrical issues have.

[nick4567]

also mello what do you mean by isps cutting corners i have 2 different coax isps that dont share the same networking devices or line and i can confirm they are both n+0 which means fiber is pushed very deep and there are no amplifiers on the coax meaning they are shared by way less people because of limitations of distance on coax they are setup like this to support docsis 4.0 which will allow symmetric 10gb speeds and 1 node will only be able to serve 10 houses so but i will try my true 5g hotspot as i just got a 5g capable phone and respond back once i test that but mello u gotta understand that isps are a business and they will do their best to take care of their customers concerns unless they dont want to be a business anymore and that means that any place with any sort of competition is a quick phone call complain "fix or i switch" scenario but i do also understand how plausible isp sounds as i do get insta peeked and it does feel like an extremely magnified peekers advantage in all honesty

[oldschool007]

what mello says makes sense in any case. I have the same assumption that it is a local overload of the networks.
i have been playing shooter since counterstrike 7.1 and that is a very long time. if i was watching someone ingame i could tell after 1 minute if this person has a good internet connection or not. especially with cs 1.6 you could see it clearly on recoil at m4/ak and on the hit registration.

I have played a few years little and since about 1 year again (call of duty/warzone) and i can do what i want but my hit registration is bad. I am seen by the opponent also earlier and it works very delayed but I often have the best ping on the server. I know for example where an opponent comes out and I am in the zoom of a weapon and I get hit before I can even pull the trigger. Since you play against console players on warzone you might think that this is not possible.

I have a 3000 Euro PC and everything perfectly adjusted on a 240 Hz display. perfect mouse sensitivity, a good mousepad, i can hear opponents well with a good headset and i have good reflexes. Everything is useless if my internet is broken.
The crazy thing is there is no sign except the ingame performance. Download/Upload speed is good, no disconnects and a ping 10-20 ms, sometimes 30 ms.

I have tried 3 different ISPs and it is the same everywhere. The ping differs a bit.

Pc and Xbox the same, modem and different routers.So I tested everything before the phone jack.
I proceeded logically and tried to exclude the things.

I have excluded the routing of the ISP by the ISP change or VPN. So I excluded the last way with the routing and the first way in the private area.
The problem can only be between my house or the overloaded line at the DSL outdoor slam or the distributor (where the DSL ports are and where all users are connected).
I have heard that in Germany 60-120 people are on one line. An ISP change didn't work for me because the line is always the same.

The network belongs to the Telekom and other ISPs rent this line from the Telekom. This does not change the fact that my line is a shared medium.

for me the last try is a cheap leased line, a direct connection to the backbone/data center of an ISP.
With this all preliminary steps are skipped and i have my own line. i have been waiting for a few weeks for the setup and will gladly report if there has been a change.

but the problem can only be here. I have contact in many german forums with other players who also try to eliminate this problem. One player plays fifa at his home and it is going very badly, if he plays fifa at his girlfriend's house online it is a completely different feeling. My friend lives 1 mile away from me and it has a different feel than playing at my house.
If it is the same ISP and in almost the same area, the routing will be the same.

It can't be because of the electricity. I have also ruled that out with an uninterruptible power supply.