I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

[howiec]

Regarding NIC Interrupt Moderation Rate, here are some interesting findings: https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCS ... /README.md

Good to know. I'm sticking to disabled/off for now as I've had no issues thus far.

[Razer_TheFiend]

Pretty sure the 3399 is called Focus+ and is already in the RVU, DAv2 etc.; Or is it a new revision specifically for 8000 hz?

Same silicon, but using modes that were invented specifically for high polling rates.

What's the estimated release date? Q2 2021?

There is none.

If we wanted to sell a Viper with new electronics (which is essentially what our prototypes are), I'd say the hardware is ready to go now. It's just a matter of how much actual demand there is for it, and how well it works for use as a primary/only mouse.

I'm fully aware that enthusiasts are willing to understand and work around the numerous small "ecosystem issues" that come with an 8000Hz mouse, but enthusiasts are 1% of the market. Can't release a product that has a 20% return rate because it makes their task manager bug out (actual issue).

[howiec]

I mean EGG is already enlisting 3370, pretty sure nobody would do 8khz with 3389.

What is EGG?

3389 is just an example... Any sensor + firmware that doesn't optimize things like timing, which the Focus+ does do, is an example of a "standard 33xx" sensor in my book.

[lyrill]

I mean EGG is already enlisting 3370, pretty sure nobody would do 8khz with 3389.

What is EGG?

3389 is just an example... Any sensor + firmware that doesn't optimize things like timing, which the Focus+ does do, is an example of a "standard 33xx" sensor in my book.

yes i have not forgotten the official pages 1 year ago, although I am not sure how exactly the 3370 fares on that regard since nobody bothered to post anything like Razer did. But EndGameGear claims that 3370 processes info 10% faster than 3389. and let's not forget that 3389's 99.4%, 3399 is 99.6%, and 3370 per MountainGG's claim is calculated to be 99.7% accuracy wise. (or is it error rate including the process lag? I honestly don't even...)

[howiec]

I mean EGG is already enlisting 3370, pretty sure nobody would do 8khz with 3389.

What is EGG?

3389 is just an example... Any sensor + firmware that doesn't optimize things like timing, which the Focus+ does do, is an example of a "standard 33xx" sensor in my book.

yes i have not forgotten the official pages 1 year ago, although I am not sure how exactly the 3370 fares on that regard since nobody bothered to post anything like Razer did. But EndGameGear claims that 3370 processes info 10% faster than 3389. and let's not forget that 3389's 99.4%, 3399 is 99.6%, and 3370 per MountainGG's claim is calculated to be 99.7% accuracy wise. (or is it error rate including the process lag? I honestly don't even...)

Claimed accuracy is one thing but firmware customization/optimization likely makes a difference even with the same IC.
Hence experience with multiple mice and their sensors is more useful and is real-world testing.

I've used many mice over the years and my conclusion is that all 3310/3360's feel somewhat sluggish (yes, at CPIs without smoothing), 3389 feels more responsive but with more feeling of "overshoot", and the 3399 (Focus+) has best of both, not sluggish but also less "overshoot" feeling.

Again this is just my experience and there are many other factors, e.g. mouse surface and/or calibration, polling rate, LOD, CPI, system.

Here's just some, not all, of the mice I've used:

• MM720 (previous main)
• MM710
• M4
• Viper Ultimate
• O
• O-
• SK-S Ace
• FK2
• S2 Divina
• Kone Pure Optical
• Kone EMP
• G305
• G403 Wireless

EDIT: removed 3370 (incorrect). My Makalu 67 should arrive soon, hopefully.

[axaro1]

I've used many mice over the years and my conclusion is that all 3310/3360/3370s feel somewhat sluggish (yes, at CPIs without smoothing), 3389 feels more responsive but with more feeling of "overshoot", and the 3399 (Focus+) has best of both, not sluggish but also less "overshoot" feeling.

I really like the clicks on the Viper Mini, it does feel faster than my GPW (according to RTings it's basically 1 frame faster at 240hz) but the 3359 is one of the worst if not the worst sensor I've ever tried, much worse than the 3360 and the 3360.

Logitech did a great job with the Hero 16k both in terms of LOD and tracking, it's easily the smoothest and least jittery mouse I've ever tried even though I'm not a big fan of the shape.
You should definitely give the Hero a try.

I'm really interested by the PAW3370 on the XM1R (which supposedly has 50% less errors than other pixart sensors, which may or may not make an actual difference) and presorted Kailh GM 8.0 can be a nice upgrade over the switches on the GPW.
Can you describe the 3370? Does it feel like an improvement over something like the 3360 or is it just a cheap but newer 3389?

The Hydrogen seems like the best mouse but I don't expect an unknown company to have worldwide availability or decent support, thats why I'm hoping for Razer to release the Avalon as soon as possible but improvements in the Windows ecosystem for 8000hz support are a key point to make it happen.

[howiec]

Logitech did a great job with the Hero 16k both in terms of LOD and tracking, it's easily the smoothest and least jittery mouse I've ever tried even though I'm not a big fan of the shape.
You should definitely give the Hero a try.

I've used the original Hero sensor in the G305 that I listed above. Yes, it's a great mouse and sensor overall but I've found other ones that suit me and/or perform better, e.g. Viper Ultimate, SK-S Ace (Skoll Small), MM720, and of course, this Razer 8kHz prototype.

I'm really interested by the PAW3370 on the XM1R (which supposedly has 50% less errors than other pixart sensors, which may or may not make an actual difference) and presorted Kailh GM 8.0 can be a nice upgrade over the switches on the GPW.
Can you describe the 3370? Does it feel like an improvement over something like the 3360 or is it just a cheap but newer 3389?

Sorry, I brain-farted and typed 3370 by mistake. Probably sub-consciously waiting for my Makalu 67 to arrive that shipped on 12/3. I'll post findings later.

The Hydrogen seems like the best mouse but I don't expect an unknown company to have worldwide availability or decent support, thats why I'm hoping for Razer to release the Avalon as soon as possible but improvements in the Windows ecosystem for 8000hz support are a key point to make it happen.

Yeah, depending on demand, wouldn't be surprised to see lack of stock.

However, I wouldn't say that it'll be the best mouse for everyone although 2-thru-8kHz capable is 100% the way to go for all future mice.
There are many things that determine which is the "best mouse" for each individual, and a lot of that depends on the grip style, hand-size, use-case (e.g. MMORPG vs FPS), desired SW features, customizability, wired/wireless, aesthetics, surface texture, etc.

However, some things that I consider more or less universal to all mice include:

• Weight - The lower the better
• Weight distribution - Center of mass with respect to grip location is always best (clearly depends on expected grip style)
• Optical Lens XY Location respective to mouse dimensions/shape & other physical features - Also largely depends on expected grip style
• Sensor + Firmware tech
• Power Efficiency if wireless w/o charging surface
• Cable Flexibility & Weight if wired
• Button Latency & Life - Optical better than pure mechanical due to debounce time
• Build Quality & Robustness
• Skate Design & Material - Always want virgin PTFE that's relatively thick w/ rounded edges
• Settings customization & SW
• Warranty

Plus other stuff I may have missed.

[lyrill]

Logitech did a great job with the Hero 16k both in terms of LOD and tracking, it's easily the smoothest and least jittery mouse I've ever tried even though I'm not a big fan of the shape.
You should definitely give the Hero a try.

I've used the original Hero sensor in the G305 that I listed above. Yes, it's a great mouse and sensor overall but I've found other ones that suit me and/or perform better, e.g. Viper Ultimate, SK-S Ace (Skoll Small), MM720, and of course, this Razer 8kHz prototype.

I'm really interested by the PAW3370 on the XM1R (which supposedly has 50% less errors than other pixart sensors, which may or may not make an actual difference) and presorted Kailh GM 8.0 can be a nice upgrade over the switches on the GPW.
Can you describe the 3370? Does it feel like an improvement over something like the 3360 or is it just a cheap but newer 3389?

Sorry, I brain-farted and typed 3370 by mistake. Probably sub-consciously waiting for my Makalu 67 to arrive that shipped on 12/3. I'll post findings later.

The Hydrogen seems like the best mouse but I don't expect an unknown company to have worldwide availability or decent support, thats why I'm hoping for Razer to release the Avalon as soon as possible but improvements in the Windows ecosystem for 8000hz support are a key point to make it happen.

Yeah, depending on demand, wouldn't be surprised to see lack of stock.

However, I wouldn't say that it'll be the best mouse for everyone although 2-thru-8kHz capable is 100% the way to go for all future mice.
There are many things that determine which is the "best mouse" for each individual, and a lot of that depends on the grip style, hand-size, use-case (e.g. MMORPG vs FPS), desired SW features, customizability, wired/wireless, aesthetics, surface texture, etc.

However, some things that I consider more or less universal to all mice include:

• Weight - The lower the better
• Weight distribution - Center of mass with respect to grip location is always best (clearly depends on expected grip style)
• Optical Lens XY Location respective to mouse dimensions/shape & other physical features - Also largely depends on expected grip style
• Sensor + Firmware tech
• Power Efficiency if wireless w/o charging surface
• Cable Flexibility & Weight if wired
• Button Latency & Life - Optical better than pure mechanical due to debounce time
• Build Quality & Robustness
• Skate Design & Material - Always want virgin PTFE that's relatively thick w/ rounded edges
• Settings customization & SW
• Warranty

Plus other stuff I may have missed.

low lod, uppermost circular accuracy, ultra low jitter

max ergonomic for relaxed palm/claw which is the canon grip style

robust buttons that can withstand more exertion under pressure(this seeming status may or may not be fully neutered down by all brands switching back to lighter switches) while prioritizing the ability of nuanced and subtle actuation and handling

[axaro1]

Viper 8Khz CONFIRMED

https://twitter.com/Kephrii/status/1341449006623416320

I really liked the shape of the viper mini but I thought it was a little bit too small, now it's time to say goodbye to my GPW

I assume the NDA has been lifted, is there anything else you can say about the new viper? Did you guys implement a faster microcontroller to handle 8khz polling? Is the sensor the same as the standard viper?

[Brainlet]

What's the estimated release date? Q2 2021?

There is none.

If we wanted to sell a Viper with new electronics (which is essentially what our prototypes are), I'd say the hardware is ready to go now. It's just a matter of how much actual demand there is for it, and how well it works for use as a primary/only mouse.

I doubt there will be much demand considering 99% of people are latency deniers.

I'm fully aware that enthusiasts are willing to understand and work around the numerous small "ecosystem issues" that come with an 8000Hz mouse, but enthusiasts are 1% of the market. Can't release a product that has a 20% return rate because it makes their task manager bug out (actual issue).

Any chance you'll sell it to the 1% with a special disclaimer mentioning these "issues"?