Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Falkentyne
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Falkentyne » 23 Dec 2020, 20:39

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
10 Dec 2020, 03:16
fernan1234 wrote:
03 Dec 2020, 14:02
Thank you for the response! I actually found that topic while my previous post was being approved, and was disappointed to see that the K does not work for our 60hz single strobe purposes. So it has to be the P, though that one unfortunately cannot avoid crosstalk for the entire screen. Hopefully the two monitors released next year will not have any crosstalk issues at all.
If you use PC-based 60Hz, you may be able to use Vertical Total 4500 to eliminate crosstalk for 60Hz while also producing a Quick Frame Transport effect (faster transmission of refresh cycle to allow it to be strobed sooner).

Consoles won't be able to do this, but this is a trick that PCs can do.
Vertical Total 4500? That's pixel clock 561 mhz...can those old monitors even go that high?

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Dec 2020, 21:20

Falkentyne wrote:
23 Dec 2020, 20:39
Vertical Total 4500? That's pixel clock 561 mhz...can those old monitors even go that high?
This is not referencing to old monitors, but the typical 240 Hz monitor.

You double VT to halve Hz. Or quadruple VT to quarter Hz.

So all 240Hz VT1125 monitors can theoretically do 60Hz VT4500, if its electronics are designed properly.
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elexor
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by elexor » 24 Dec 2020, 05:17

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
23 Dec 2020, 21:20
So all 240Hz VT1125 monitors can theoretically do 60Hz VT4500, if its electronics are designed properly.
my zowie does VT4860 when in blurreduction mode at 60hz I replicated this exactly with freesync enabled like you said. It works ok but the strobe quality is not as high. I'm thinking when you switch to freesync it changes the overdrive to something sub optimal. Tried everything even tried adjusting the odgain you can make it alittle bit better.

So the only way to get my perfect strobe quality is with benq blur reduction enabled and the scanrate upconvert is making it impossible to sync my strobe perfectly so I'm just about ready to give up on this monitor.

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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Dec 2020, 15:31

elexor wrote:
24 Dec 2020, 05:17
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
23 Dec 2020, 21:20
So all 240Hz VT1125 monitors can theoretically do 60Hz VT4500, if its electronics are designed properly.
my zowie does VT4860 when in blurreduction mode at 60hz I replicated this exactly with freesync enabled like you said. It works ok but the strobe quality is not as high. I'm thinking when you switch to freesync it changes the overdrive to something sub optimal. Tried everything even tried adjusting the odgain you can make it alittle bit better.
I think you are right -- the FreeSync overdrive is not optimal for strobing, especially with your 60Hz-single-strobe hack.
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 29 Dec 2020, 16:47

Great video from a5hun of ApertureGrille about DIY 60 Hz single-strobe hack:

phpBB [video]


The bottom line is that it is easy for manufacturers to do (especially with the help of Blur Busters).
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equalvision87
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by equalvision87 » 05 Jan 2021, 12:59

Does this exist but with 75hz?

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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Jan 2021, 15:30

equalvision87 wrote:
05 Jan 2021, 12:59
Does this exist but with 75hz?
Several monitors such as ViewSonic XG270 can strobe at 75 Hz, yes.
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KuraiShidosha
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by KuraiShidosha » 06 Jan 2021, 03:40

I'm a firm believer in VRR ULMB. I am running the CRU hack for my PG279Q and enjoying 60hz emulators with single strobe perfectly synced framerate. It's really important that it's VRR based instead of just 60hz v-sync because NES runs at 60.1hz and without that proper syncing of the .1 you end up with judder and flickering hiccups every few seconds.

Unfortunately this PG279Q is an old IPS 1440p 144-165hz monitor so its response times just aren't up to the task of general use at 60hz or below. I've taken it all the way down to 38hz single strobe. The flickering is... fun lol but man it's bizarre seeing that perfect response time ghosting with no double strobing.

I've also used my Valve Index and Virtual Desktop for 80hz strobing but it's not really compatible with anything interesting like emulators. Almost better to just do 120hz and double strobe since its response times and persistence are so low. But I really think VRR Strobing is the key to having an ultimate future display.

Any recommendations on a 1440p 144-240hz VA/IPS monitor that can do strobed VRR at least down to 60hz single strobing? Preferably one with significantly better response times?

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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by AddictFPS » 06 Jan 2021, 11:44

I think proper VRR+Strobing today not exist. I only know ASUS ELMB-Sync, but is not single strobe ! so, you can imagine the result.

https://www.aperturegrille.com/reviews/ ... B-Waveform

You can solve NES issue making a custom resol with fixed frecuency 60.1Hz with incoming Eve QHD 240Hz, and for old emulators of "Arcade Gabinets" games, than run in NTSC a bit under 60Hz, hopefuly soon single strobe lower limit go down to at least 48. If new Eve monitors finaly can single strobe under 60, to cover also 50p europe stream, woluld be amazing.

VRR avoiding reach FPS=Hz has very low input lag, but strobing add input lag (the time the backlight is Off), so until Blue Phase LCD response time + backlight rolling scan with dinamic brightness arrive, i see difficult implement a proper eSports Gaming LCD VRR+SingleStrobe.

ASUS ELMB-Sync use algoritm to dinamic multi-strobe each frame to compensate brightness loss when framerate drop. This cause multiple repeated images, i think this is not the good way to control brightness.

If backlight can be dinamicaly controlled at each strobe, when framerate drop can be applied a bit more voltage, in teory can be done single strobe maintaining the same brightness level at different frequencies with very good quality electronics, if frametime drop, backlight voltage boost to compensate. Issue would be one frame of async, because monitor can't predict how much long the next frametime would be.

If framerate is high, like in modern games, not should be a serious issue. With low frequencies oscillating, maybe can be noted, like the flicker, but if GPU is enought to maintain steady 60FPS, no problem, also steady brightness and flicker.

elexor
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by elexor » 06 Jan 2021, 18:20

strobing at 60.1hz is easy or any other weird refreshrate used by retroconsoles. retroarch need's a easy way to change videomodes without using VRR.
The MisTer fpga, ossc etc just change the pixel clock to alter the speed it works just fine on a single strobed monitor.

issue with native 60hz devices and single strobe is the extra lag it's not that bad but retrogamers are very sensitive to it. retroarch has many lag reducing settings that can compensate for this.

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