I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

[Chief Blur Buster]

I legtimiately have a PC from '97 with USB 1.0 (not even 1.1!). I will totally try the Razer 8000 Hz mice on it when I get a chance just for morbid curiosity; someone asked me if newer USB 3.0-class stuff works on 1.0 and I honestly do not know. For science!

Let me know what happens!

IIRC, I think Razer 8K is a USB 2.0 only device, and also USB 1.0 only supports up to 1000 Hz (max).

[lyrill]

‍2/11 20000dpi is laggy in dota 2 and many other games without in game sens for cursor movement or in case of crosshair, no raw input(or buggy). It's like a single pixel* lag into acceleration (of the single pixel*). Any pixel level micro movements will greatly suffer as a consequence. (and I really don't like people, especially fps crowd that despise moba/rts/rpg etc as if they don't deserve to use a good mouse/does not understand or begin to compute the word 'accuracy" or have wooden hands--I mean sure, that's how Scarlett got 400-600 peak apm in a tournament lol..the apm for fps players are literally pathetic)

equivalent lowest dpi u should go for is 5000dpi, because if u want to lower the dpi to eliminate this bug (20k is indeed still buggy in this case, aka where there is no true RAW input, this is no reason to say that the 20k is completely fake--it certainly is much less fake than 8khz--it is not so in csgo for prime example--this I will double-check again later), the only way is to increase system sens, and the only dial up choice u have is the immediate 3/11, which is 4 times the speed, so you cut it from 20k to 5k.‍ (oh and btw this completely debunks the whole "6/11 is golden u can't go any lower or higher they are all trash" just by this splice of viewpoint--because 3/11 5000 completely eliminates that lag just as well as 6/11 1250 does.) (and bonus point, this also completely nullify the "golden standard" 1600 3200 arbitrary 2x2x2x2x bs. I mean it's 2021!! like ....sure if you REALLY love the zygen or outset or any other 3200 locked mouse worthy of some high regards.., but for me honestly let's see how they revamp the SpawN mouse which Xanver teased at the very beginning of Vaxee launch...they are more likely to do a good job with that than they are likely to offer drivers for their mouse omegalul)

The reason for this is obviously that using 6/11 1250 dpi aka 1250edpi equivalent, is too damn fucking bad, even if for games like dota2, even if there is no obvious lag. The case here is that this lag is so obvious on 2/11 20000dpi that whatever benefit 20000dpi should give paired with a working raw input, well it maybe all together doesn't even compute in a none raw scenario, and even if it did, the cumulative result is so trash it's just completely insane for anyone to use it. So yeah basically the highest dpi you can enjoy is just that........and what a freaking coincidence that it is again the same number that truemovepro kicks in smoothing at...(guys don't even begin to tinker with system os on any OTHER mouse if you were just using 6/11 like you should anyways).......if the test results of BattleNonsense is reference grade, then obviously there's not likely a very human perceivable difference of lag from 5k to 20k sensor dpi under the same edpi, as his results are already marginally different from 3200 to 20k. But more importantly we had discussed what concrete and innate reasons a higher dpi is always superior previously in this thread, inputs from Chief and Razer_TheFiend, for those who have forgotten completely, do go back and revisit, and I don't remember the details why but I will go back and check them too. Again, do doublecheck any game you play that "claims" to have raw input, or "enhance pointer accuracy" or any of that, because they could be lying. If they are, too bad u can't use 20k dpi paired with low whatever sens(sens, in this case not the generic sens=mouse sens=dpi lingo) as any such pesky high sophistication problem might be most visibly glared on top dpi, in similar manner that 6/11 20k dpi is still a spaghetti wack fest at 8khz for the last time..(jitter that disappears completely after lowering to........wait for it......around 5k dpi!--pending more exact testing)

Kindly be reminded that the only reason I went to 1250 edpi was because when trying 3/11 on 20k there was even more absurd issue in the form of semi obvious mid traversal acceleration , like not even able to accurately scroll through a scoreboard in warthunder..... that was again obviously 4 times the current edpi I use (I still can't wrap my head around why I am ok with this and it doesn't feel too slow, maybe I'm just that adaptable....? but now going up feels immediately fast), it was 5000edpi. This acceleration definitely exhibits and endangers control (literally unplayable I should say) but I am pretty sure that I can go 5000 edpi because I did go 5000 dpi prior to zygen on various Razer mice, I even posted about using it in QC, it was one of the last post on r/mouse, and it was down-voted to oblivion cus 5000 dpi is like kim kardashian crashing a vegan party or something. since I was running 2300 too prior to that cus I brought out the am-fg for a twirl (which ironically also had 1150, which I refused to use at the time), and hadn't used 1600 since oh I would say anywhere q3 q4 2017 (but in all reality due to hacker wave's first emergence I probably completely abandoned using 1600 not short after the sensei 310/basilisk month, if I ever used them much at all......the 1600 for sniping 1800 for looting/cqc combo might sound a bit pretentious to some, but do know that there are other people who put their csgo sens to like .00X digits so no it's nothing special), I went straight to 3200 no bs on zygen and xm1 rgb debute and any mice after that and prior to this event here..

NOW I will find time to go back to the sensei tian(ten) and see just how much lag I can perceive with 18k raw dpi locked and with 3/11 being 4500 edpi, with 2/11 being 1125 edpi, which are just a tad slower than 5000 and 1250 and within reasonable range for matching reference value against the viper 8k values I mentioned above. and I will also test against tmp itself running 4500 dpi/edpi at 6/11 and 1125 dpi/edpi at 6/11, where there are no "1 frame" smoothing.

For the Viper 8k I would have loved to try 10k dpi paired with some os sens that sadly doesn't exist, but I guess when I am supposed to be able to use 20k dpi with any true raw input game, 10k doesn't matter (as the lowest dpi that benefit from the firmware update optimizations)

[heavywe]

As data, since I changed my logitech gpro for a razer viper mini, on the page https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime I constantly give less than 190ms, and with my gpro it was normal to give more than 210ms

[Mr1991]

Does anybody know how much it would cost the MoBo makers to have each USB port on the back of the Rear I/O panel be a independent root USB hub instead of the shared mess that it is now?

I heard Razer is talking to some mobo vendors about that.

The time is ripe for decicated high-Hz USB ports, so we can plug in a 4 KHz keyboard and an 8 KHz mouse at the same time without them clogging each other in the hardware, and lower USB / chipset / CPU processing overheads as much as possible.

Ideally, software should be the only weak link for high-Hz devices.

They already are

https://pasteboard.co/JSwwfRr.png
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z590%20Taichi/

[lyrill]

Does anybody know how much it would cost the MoBo makers to have each USB port on the back of the Rear I/O panel be a independent root USB hub instead of the shared mess that it is now?

I heard Razer is talking to some mobo vendors about that.

The time is ripe for decicated high-Hz USB ports, so we can plug in a 4 KHz keyboard and an 8 KHz mouse at the same time without them clogging each other in the hardware, and lower USB / chipset / CPU processing overheads as much as possible.

Ideally, software should be the only weak link for high-Hz devices.

They already are

https://pasteboard.co/JSwwfRr.png
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z590%20Taichi/

what does this mean? usb 4.0 O.o
oh seperate ctrllers ahhylmao....wake me up when apex pro 2 come out with 2k+hz and 0.1mm actuation 0.5mm max actuation and built in dampening mechanism at end travel. (even then I doubt that this is a hard requirement, because even I would admit that playing starcraft the mouse movement are not as extremely accurate as fps, and fps the main lack of apm in CONTRAST to the other genre, comes from the keyboard--not that fps kb apm contribution are lower than mouse apm.......so yeah until the next true mega genreblend esport comes out)

btw since mouse "hz" isn't static, why (if so) is kb hz static?? when _theFiend said that kb doesn't even need to be as high in the first place

[Mr1991]

There’s already 4K keyboards, and none will be perfectly static, keyboards are less important because you’re only pressing keys every now and then, mouse is a constant stream of updated plots that needs to be precise for precise gameplay in the majority of games.

Imo ur better off sticking to a 1khz keyboard for now for more stable 8k

[lyrill]

There’s already 4K keyboards, and none will be perfectly static, keyboards are less important because you’re only pressing keys every now and then, mouse is a constant stream of updated plots that needs to be precise for precise gameplay in the majority of games.

Imo ur better off sticking to a 1khz keyboard for now for more stable 8k

"every now and then" that's the fps gamer in you speaking m8 that's exactly what I just described. when actuations can be 0.1mm on all keyboards and people are used to it, then it's the same as mouse movements moving 0.1mm or whatever "sub micron level" as logitech tried to advertise in their 25.6k update. and in terms of constant movement, full analog like input too, but there's no game made for that in the mainstream. u really gotta consider that games are made for the current day pleb tier keyboards, as in any keyboard that can do none gaming stuff. mech boards came from cherry..who made boards for industry and workspace usage....led kb came from tg3 from wisconsin... if only console games ain't as close sourced and casul as they are, high quality and high standard analog inputs would have been a lot more developed and spread around... and as a consequence I'm afraid the pc market is also in a negative feedback loop. And I'm talking about everything and all the mentality, including how fps players disregard other genres or projecting down to cs/quake players disregard other shooters...you see so many people complained about zowie's lack of innovation for years, yet how many among those would admit they are sinful for playing cs and the same stale mode and maps for eternity....

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Could Razer be lying about their Optical Sensors "Native CPI"?

[lyrill]

.......??

[Kamen Rider Blade]

.......??

Their stated CPI on their sensor is achieved through some sort of interpolation instead of natively being capable of achieving 20,000 CPI?

Or is their another issue?

Maybe this explanation will help you figure out what's wrong with the Razer Viper 8 kHz sensor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc7JVjcPzL0