Emi issues are more common than you think

[dervu]

By just taking your PC to another place and observing that it is not different there, can also mean something in that PC was damaged.
But to rule that out it would mean spending another thousands of $, so it's hard.
Also by doing so, trying out new PC - if it would turn out it is being damaged, you just lose money.
Expensive testing.

[nyxo100]

By just taking your PC to another place and observing that it is not different there, can also mean something in that PC was damaged.
But to rule that out it would mean spending another thousands of $, so it's hard.
Also by doing so, trying out new PC - if it would turn out it is being damaged, you just lose money.
Expensive testing.

dont waste your money i tried with a new brand gaming notebook and the issue is exactly the same btw i know a guy who change all parts of his PC even the monitor cables etc and the issue was the same.

[Shade7]

Excited to see your results.

I also have a 5600x in my setup (with a pretty cheap mobo, ASUS TUF B550 Plus).

How would one test for EMI conditions?

Right now, I've ordered a pure sine wave UPS, and seeing if that helps my issues that I've had across 2 different builds.

I would say a UPS test might confirm if it is EMI or not if you see your gameplay improves, but even better if you test your pc in 2-3 different locations perhaps on your friends house etc and see if there’s improvement or not and test their computer in that location and compare. I never bothered buying testing equipments as they measure certain EMI frequencies only. Difference between offline and online? Do you still feel mouse being wonky offline?

Well, don’t get your hopes up too much tho lol,I predict their will be an improvement but by how much, we shall see. Sometimes, getting your system to be able to play games fine without too much input lag is a fix, you don’t need to have a 100% clean pro tier players gameplay. My issue is affecting my gameplay too much where it’s hard to do basic shit so if I improve that, I’ll win.

Whats your full 2 pc builds where you experience this issue ? What have you tried to fix so far?

Build 1 (4-5 years old now)
-ASUS Z370-P MOBO
-Intel 8700K
-Samsung SSD EVO 500GB (forgot the exact model)
-EVGA 1080TI SC Black Edition
-Corsair H100i v2 AIO
-NZXT S340 MID Case
-Corsair CX Series 750 Watt 80+ Bronze
-Corsair RAM 2x8GB vengeance LPX RAM 3200MHz C16

Build 2 (What I'm currently using)
-ASUS TUF B550 PLUS MOBO
-AMD 5600x
-EVGA 1080TI SC Black Edition (recycled from my old build) (Also tried Asrock 6600XT, but didn't like it)
-Artic P12 (7x) case fans
-Vetroo V5 CPU coolor
-Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 1TB NVME
-Corsair 4000D Airflow Case
-CORSAIR RM850 850 W ATX 80 PLUS GOLD
-Tried 2 different Ram kits

• Patriot Viper Steel 2x8GB 3733Mhz C17

• G-Skill 2x8GB 3200Mhz C14 (Samsung Bdie)

I've also switched ISPs last year. I used to have Comcast, but now have Verizon Fios Gigabit Fiber (940/940)

I've been having strange desync/oddities in my gameplay for the last few years. Only started really noticing it around 2020.

I also have tried two different monitors, a different Display-port cable, and several different Ethernet cables.
-Acer XF250Q 240Hz
-ASUS VG258QM 280Hz

One thing I've noticed is that when my game is working better (on a rare occasion, but it does happen from time to time) is that the ingame graphics look MUCH clearer. Right now I play Valorant as my main game, and when my PC is working well, the textures are a lot more detailed. It's especially noticeable when observing the walls of the map. You notice new details that you've never noticed before, despite playing that map countless times.

It's crazy cuz I noticed the exact same things on top of the mouse input lag, microstuttering and desync issues with graphics looker clearer and better with nicer textures, less jagged shimmering lines and edges and no graininess when it is better. Atleast I know you and I have same detailed issues.

It also randomly improves for me sometime. But other times the first few minutes starting up the game first time for the day it is better. Alao it was better on for an hour while using couple vpns first times. And lastly, it gets better for few seconds when i get back on the game after doing something else with game minimized.
So far I think it's internet related. What you think?

That's crazy- exact same thing for me as you are describing.

Same graphical issues (that look like Antialiasingg/jagged oddities around edges).

And I also was considering a network issue for quite a while, since certain vpns helped me.

I tried Exitlag, ExpressVPN, WTFast. And in my opinion WTFast did make my gameplay feel a lot smoother.

Still, it wasn't fully consistant, and I feel that the issue is more than just network related.

[Mugabi]

I just replaced mobo and psu and lag stopped, I didn’t even did a windows reinstall. Hit rig, bullets arriving to destination, killing enemies became super super smooth, like a different game lol. But here’s where it’s weird, my mouse is erratic, I noticed how sensitivity changes, it’s better than before but it didn’t improve as much as the stuttering, visual lag and hit reg which became near perfect, played 7 hours non stop and it didn’t degrade. Holly Molly. Obviously 7 hours isn’t enough so I’ll keep playing for a week, I have a feeling that this is it, I’ll now have to deal with mouse being erratic. This one seems like a separate issue, I can’t put my finger around it. Before the new mobo and psu, everything was laggy, killing, spray bullets disappearing, shit hit reg, swapping weapons very slow, visual lag so I thought mouse being that slow was a by product of the overall lag, now lag is almost non existent and mouse still behaves weird as fuck.


Another huge thing thing I noticed, how you can see clean smooth 240fps, I get what ppl say taking about their screen looking like 60fps jittery etc, I don’t see this anymore, the smoothness while moving looking around is insane,itS like everything refreshes so fast.

I’ll keep testing but so far lag improved by like 90%, crazy as fuck. And it doesn’t fucking degrade.

I have this theory that my GPU is producing a lot of emi but my strong mobo and psu are too shielded and emi resistant witH tons of power regulating features that they fought lag, but the emi is still there beIng produced.

[Mugabi]

By just taking your PC to another place and observing that it is not different there, can also mean something in that PC was damaged.
But to rule that out it would mean spending another thousands of $, so it's hard.
Also by doing so, trying out new PC - if it would turn out it is being damaged, you just lose money.
Expensive testing.

If you know a place where you can buy and return items, go now and buy crosshair dark hero mobo with be quiet 850 platinum straight dark 11 or whatever it’s name is and try playing lol.

[Mugabi]

Cool builds, and I agree with the thing about maps looking not good with shimmering and artificats, it happens to me as well. But the the thing that drives me crazy is mouse keyboard being super slow, feeling like dragging a 1kg mouse at some occasions and having tremendous lag/stutter online.
In those two builds, you experienced pretty much the same issues? Not much difference?
What made me think it’s hardware being susceptibile to these issues compared to other hardware is that I tried my friends pc in same location, and it performed way way better than mines, it wasn’t perfect but he had zero mouse keyboard issues and I was able to kill cleanly with many headshots without issues. Then I started to google stuff like “my new pc has input lag compared to my old” or “upgraded my mobo and I have input lag” and found many many threads on reddit about this, same location, same environment just different pc parts, this leds me to believe some hardware can be faulty n cause input lag or hardware not protected/shielded as much as it should compared to other hardware.

I have also tried my pc in 4-5 different locations without a single difference in performance, I don’t think all these places suffer from the exact same issue (maybe they are but very highly unlikely). And from all of this I gathered that, the biggest things that can impact pc performance is mobo+ psu + gpu+ cable management + case, you need all these to be in top notch condition to avoid your system getting affected by emi.

If you have time and money and know a place that do refunds, I would say try a top tier mobo (for amd x570 crosshair dark hero ) your psu isn’t too bad and perhaps a different gpu that is non gigabyte, keep replacing parts until you found the one that clicks. But start with UPS for now I would say, see how it goes.

Interesting.

Yes- I'm very excited about the UPS. This is the one I ordered. Should arrive around Thursday.

https://www.costco.com/cyberpower-1500v ... 27623.html

Both builds have had the same issues I feel.

The inconsistencies started out with my first build while playing a different game a few years ago. Suddenly my gameplay became terrible. I went from having the #1 spot in ranked to the point where I struggled to win most gunfights- even against average players.

I've been troubleshooting more thoroughly the last few months (with the help of this forum & Valorant's support team).

At this point, I think I'm ruling out networking. I don't have any more packet loss since I have gotten Fiber. My speeds/bandwidth are also more than enough.

Right now, I hope it's something electrical that can be solved. I live in the U.S. (New Jersey) & in a fairly new home (~20 years old), so never considered that there could be an electrical issue causing these things. One thing I have noticed, is that the brightness of the ceiling lights in my room seem to vary on different days. My family doesn't notice it, but, I swear, some days it looks significantly brighter than others (I always keep the dimmer on maximum). My house did have some electrical work done about 6-7 years back. I wonder if they messed something up.

Trying to figure out the culprit will waste a lot of your time, if you game most of your time and is serious, try to make a plan and do it fast. I’d say trying of different location is the first thing u should do (good in theory, hard to implement but cuts a lot of time) , if you move around different locations with not much difference, then there’s nothing much you can do as far as changing location so you gotta do other things like
UPS change hardware /shielding emi etc. I did first change location, didn’t help , tried bunch of things but this hardware change helped the most, never played like this since 1.5 years

[Shade7]

Trying to figure out the culprit will waste a lot of your time, if you game most of your time and is serious, try to make a plan and do it fast. I’d say trying of different location is the first thing u should do (good in theory, hard to implement but cuts a lot of time) , if you move around different locations with not much difference, then there’s nothing much you can do as far as changing location so you gotta do other things like
UPS change hardware /shielding emi etc. I did first change location, didn’t help , tried bunch of things but this hardware change helped the most, never played like this since 1.5 years

Which hardware change are you referring to again- sorry.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Not surprised.

But we make a distinction between non-lag EMI issues versus lag-related EMI issues.

So this thread is kinda half-offtopic, but is relevant to helping explain to average laypeople of another angle to EMI creating computer problems;

EMI->blankout/crash is common
EMI issues causing momentary monitor blackouts are common. You've seen the media reports of LG 5K display blacking out if a WiFi router is nearby them.

EMI->lag is a lot rarer
Non-network-related EMI issues that are so subtle that they simply create input lag, is a lot rarer. (error correction storms creating lag, as explained here).

___

Some electronics have become so sensitive to interference, that they just blankout (screen goes temporarily blank, etc) or crash (bluescreen, etc) -- I know a computer that reliably bluescreens when a nearby 1980s vaccuum is turned on within 12 inches of the computer tower, because it's a like mini-EMP bomb. No permanent damage, just computer crash. Very common if you pulse something very close to an unshielded computer (i.e. computers with a glass side are essentially unshielded computers that are not EMP-proofed against simple domestic-appliance interference).

-- Aside: At the end of the day -- we're not renaming this forum to indicate common-ness. Nominally, we discourage forum members that are only registering here only for our EMI forum and only posting in our EMI forum (and we may later create a new rule based on this to lower noise). But we let this EMI subforum exist since EMI is still a legitimate latency-related issue (even if rarer). Ideally we prefer only a fraction of a poster's traffic to be in this area, but what can we do...

[dervu]

Some electronics have become so sensitive to interference, that they just blankout (screen goes temporarily blank, etc) or crash (bluescreen, etc) -- I know a computer that reliably bluescreens when a nearby 1980s vaccuum is turned on within 12 inches of the computer tower, because it's a like mini-EMP bomb. No permanent damage, just computer crash. Very common if you pulse something very close to an unshielded computer (i.e. computers with a glass side are essentially unshielded computers that are not EMP-proofed against simple domestic-appliance interference).

If you know what device makes it crash, maybe it would be fun experiment to find out if moving it further from PC would cause lag?

[Chief Blur Buster]

Some electronics have become so sensitive to interference, that they just blankout (screen goes temporarily blank, etc) or crash (bluescreen, etc) -- I know a computer that reliably bluescreens when a nearby 1980s vaccuum is turned on within 12 inches of the computer tower, because it's a like mini-EMP bomb. No permanent damage, just computer crash. Very common if you pulse something very close to an unshielded computer (i.e. computers with a glass side are essentially unshielded computers that are not EMP-proofed against simple domestic-appliance interference).

If you know what device makes it crash, maybe it would be fun experiment to find out if moving it further from PC would cause lag?

Polite note about quality of your question:
- To a newbie, this is a legit question of curiously
- To a Ph.D university graduate, this can feel like a stupid question to them

Because it's a game of S/N margins and every people have different S/N margins, what happens with an identical rig for Person 1 will not happen for Person 2.

It can be as little as a little more photons or fields / a little fewer photons or fields. Every location have very different ambient electromagnetics (e.g. entire spectrum beyond visible light), with infinite numbers of frequencies of very different strengths in every different location. It's not as simple as a single wavelength like WiFi or reddish-orange light or 88.7MHz radio wave or whatnot.

So trying to come up with reliable EMI reproduction that works in all locations and cases is hard, unless there's extremely defectively-designed equipment involved (like the LG 5K recall).

Since there is an infinite amount of ambient electromagnectic-radiation differences in every cubic nanometer of the entire universe (more dramatically different than two random cloud-precipitation ice crystals aka snowflakes, the old adage "no two snowflakes are alike") -- consequently, you can't reproduce reliably, unless you use overkill (e.g. nuclear EMP) or you intentionally cherrypick defectively-designed equipment (e.g. early LG 5K display) in order to get reproducibility between two different users in two different locations, despite identical rigs.

Simplified example: A lightbulb is emitting light, which is a bunch of electromagnetic radiation (photons). But you know the whole electromagnetic spectrum (radio waves and microwaves are longer wavelength than visible light, while x-rays and gamma-rays are shorter wavelength than visible light). In this analog continuum of electromagnetic spectrum, there's an infinite number of frequencies. You call WiFi 2.4 GHz, but it's actually an infinite number of frequencies between exactly 2400 MHz thru 2483.5 MHz, and a wireless modem inside a router creates a WiFi signal.

That's the microwave frequency range (that's why turning on a microwave oven often weakens your houses' 2.4 GHz WiFi signal). But 0 Hz thru infinite Hz is an infinitely long band of infinite number of frequencies -- and any random frequency has a stronger signal. A specific microwave signal (e.g. 2453.3 Mhz might be strong) while concurrently a specific frequency xray signal is medium-strong (1.943252352358239582395823 x 10^17 Hz), while a visible light signal is strong (whatever frequencies from whatever type your lightbulb is emitting, and how far you're from it, etc), etc.

If you've studied high school sufficiently, you begin to realize there's an infinite amount of possible electromagnetic-spectrum signals. An infinite number of different signal strengths along an infinite number of frequencies along the entire electromagnetic spectrum, and manufacturing variances may pick up / reject frequencies better (e.g. a different motherboard may be able to accept a 10% stronger electromagnetic-spectrum without failing, because its transistors/VRMs are better-binned specimens, or whatever).

If you graduated science/physics, you're familiar with the electromagnetic spectrum and how infinitely wide of an analog continuum it is -- and electromagnetic-spectrum can be zillons of simultaneous frequencies of randomly different strengths in every single cubic nanometer of the entire volume of the entire universe. Move a bit further to the side, you're farther from the lightbulb but closer to the radio tower next door and the radium emissions from the earth below, and slightly closer to the WiFi router, and the emissions emitted by your fridge's motor. This is hugely simplified -- but there are an infinite number of electromagnetic sources -- even being a millimeter closer to the star in the sky, could tip the domino on an ultra-threshold situation.

Infinite number of simultaneous electromagnetic wavelengths, infinite number of signal strengths for each, infinite number of concurrent combinations -- and due to inverse square law (away from sources = weaker = fewer photons per second received from that source for that specific wavelength of the infinite number of electromagnetic wavelengths) all of the strengths for all of these infinite number of wavelengths change (up/down) everytime you even move a single atom to the left or down or thataway. Every single location of the universe is completely different.

So even shifting a computer to the side -- you might not be able to reproduce a crash, or whatever, unless one specific electromagnetic-spectrum source is overstrengthed (e.g. like a nuclear EMP) or if the hardware is already so defectively weakly-rejecting EMI, that it's easy to sue smalltime pulses (like from a motor or an antenna) to reliably reproduce the same thing in all locations for all users. Overkill is your friend.

Some YouTuber could perhaps use some giant appliance motor (e.g. unshielded clothes dryer motor while plugging/unplugging starting/stopping/etc) only 1-2 inches away from a chip surface, and maybe semi-reliably create crashes. Who knows? Maybe a YouTuber will come up with reliable instructions, but it definitely won't be easy to reproduce -- since every single location point in the entire volume of universe is all completely different ambient electromagnetic regimes.

But there are a lot of semi-defective (weak EMI rejection) product on the market lurking, not quite as sensitive as the LG 5K recall, but sufficient to produce reliable-reproduction instruction. Unfortuantely, since there are thousands of computer products on the market, you are going to have purchase all of them (2 or 3 of each) and test all of them in many different locations, with the same "force an EMI crash" technique.

It's a common problem but it's not an easily reproducible problem because of binning differences (e.g. different chips will be a few % more/less tolerant) and because every single different point of universe is completely different ambient electromagnetic regimes.

And electronics may be more sensitive to certain frequencies than others, and it's just not possible to test EMI-resistance for every single frequency. Engineers can only do their best, to a baseline home. But you're possibly SOL if you are living outlier (e.g. computer is in outerspace, or next to a nuclear bomb testing site, or computer is only 10 feet away from a 500 kilovolt power line, or whatever). I'm being dramatic -- of extremes -- but in Earth of nearly 8 billion population, more than 1 million people are living underneath ultra-high-intensity EMI like a hospital scanner next door or house under half-a-million-volt power transmission tower, etc. So interference often creates electronics glitches of all kinds -- sometimes as mudane as a temporary screen blankout (one of the more common symptoms)

The number of EMI combinations is much bigger than the number of subatomic particles in the known universe -- so it just is impossible to perfectly reproduce EMI regimes. So we fallback to cherrypicking interference-sensitive equipment (defective manufactured), or cherrypicking extreme-interference-strengths, in order to write reliable reproduction instructions. Despite one-off-interference situations being extremely common.

If you flunked university, you won't understand this post.
If you passed university/college and understand the electromagnetic spectrum well (and how electricity, you'll get the idea.

Those in between might be interested in reading the basics --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_field

It will help people understand why it's far more difficult to create two identical EMI regimes (infinite number of frequencies being made perfectly identical) and making sure that both identical rigs have exactly the same tolerances (identical resistance/overlcocking behaviors), necessary to create identical reproducible EMI behaviors. It's infinitely harder than trying to create two identical nowflakes. You need use the weak-link effect to create reproducibility (e.g. ultrastrong EMI far beyond norms, or defective equipment like LG 5K, or both in combination), despite one-off common-ness.