[EMI] 1500mV When computer is running!!!

[Thatweirdinputlag]

I hook up on my alt account Valorant to try out "competition" and I feel my mouse is snappier than usual and I have less desync from 1500mV to 400-500mV (Replaced my H850 with HX1200)

My go-to test is, I do activate "Total Packet Loss" and play on the server where I have the highest ping which is texas and 60ms. Usually, my game starts with 5 up to 30 packet losses in the "Outgoing Packet Loss" direction (I know that something happened from my side and I'm already desync from a few milliseconds). Basically, if 60ms becomes playable then I know I will have any issues on my closest server

I did well tonight and I never dropped 30 bombs no matter if I play on my main or smurf.

2023-01-23 01_35_11-Blitz Dashboard.png


Now the goal is to get rid of that 500mV that is emitted from the HX1200 and also from my Pfsense box

Here's where it gets weird, new components, like a new motherboard installed, new PSU etc, will always give you that false sense of "everything is okay now", which is true, I've experienced that when I changed my motherboard once, and when i changed my PSU. everything was so smooth, firing a weapon is extremely buttery as if your mouseclick is actually connected to the trigger. sheriff and desert eagle are not longer laggy to shoot with and extremely in-accurate. After a while "3 days for the motherboard, 2 days or the power supply" the lag and the everything else came back.

I do still hope that it's not the case with your situation. But it is an experience worth sharing, so make sure you don't test it beyond its return date at least.

[F1zus]

Read about how switching power supplies work. They have a PWM controller that creates high-frequency interference from 25 kHz to 200 kHz. Usually in computer power supplies, PWM controllers operate at a frequency of 100 kHz.
Any power supply will throw interference into the network. To suppress them, you need an lc filter.
Your EMI meter measures interference in the range of 10 kHz to 1 MHz, and in fact even lower. It doesn't show the whole range. Basically a useless toy.
You need a normal spectrum analyzer to accurately measure interference from 100Hz to 1MHz.

[F1zus]

The interference that the power supply creates - they do not affect the input lag. You don't have to worry about them. It is important for you to provide clean electricity for the computer and then you will forget about input lag.
Look at the picture below - can you see how much harmonic distortion is in the electrical network? They affect the input lag.
The lower this value, the better.

[KingAzar]

Today I tested and I got the start game total packet loss between 5 and 30 and just from that I knew the game will be desync! I am pretty sure the remaining 500mV (EMI) that is still active is the culprit . I need to find a way to get rid of it. The next purchase will be DC Blocker. So far, input lag is gone!

[KingAzar]

Also, I was playing around with EMF Meter, and like you guys said some components will emit something. So far these components get some detection:
- PSU
- AIO Water Pump (Is if from the Infiniti Glass)?
- Memory RAM (Is it from the RGB?)
- Fan (Is it from the RGB?

Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aoZ8ZvGQ7cPwBnSR9

[KingAzar]

The interference that the power supply creates - they do not affect the input lag. You don't have to worry about them. It is important for you to provide clean electricity for the computer and then you will forget about input lag.
Look at the picture below - can you see how much harmonic distortion is in the electrical network? They affect the input lag.
The lower this value, the better.

I would quote that my tool is certainly useless but at least it gave me some direction on what's going on. I was able to reduce the 1500mV to 500mV, the puzzle is not completed yet but from your point of view what do I miss to get this clean electricity?

[Thatweirdinputlag]

Also, I was playing around with EMF Meter, and like you guys said some components will emit something. So far these components get some detection:
- PSU
- AIO Water Pump (Is if from the Infiniti Glass)?
- Memory RAM (Is it from the RGB?)
- Fan (Is it from the RGB?

Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aoZ8ZvGQ7cPwBnSR9

That is completely normal, as long as the reader doesn't detect anything beyond 1-2 ft away from any electronic equipment. In general, anything that carries rapidly changing electrical currents will have electromagnetic emissions. A typical 12900k CPU for instance has close to 3 Billion transistors which can switch on and off at an extremely high frequency. So to simplify it, assuming a 5000MHz CPU frequency then each of those transistors are switching on and off 5,000,000,000 times a second and that is what emits the electromagnetic interference. Same goes to basically every component in your system. Most PC Fans however are DC fans that come with a 4th pin for PWM signal "Pulse-Width Modulation", which sends high frequency waves of pulses rather than the full DC current "Direct Current" to make them spin, they are more efficient and quieter than regular DC "3-Pin fans" since they can operate at lower rpms and consume less energy while making less noise, even though they are actually making noise from those pulses, but the frequency of that noise is well beyond any audible sound for the human's range of hearing. those pulses however also produces electromagnetic emissions.

In general don't take the readings of your EMF meter at heart, as long as there are no emissions beyond 1-1.5ft away then it's normal. As for the emissions inside of your case itself, well, all I can tell you is that you have so many streamers with their RGB Puke cases displayed in the background and they don't experience any of our issues. You can play with spread-spectrum values in your Bios, but that "in my humble opinion" changes nothing, since the amount of EMI emissions will still be present, they are just spread over varying frequencies "to adhere to EMC regulations".

[[email protected]]

Two very informative videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfiOqaeFDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ss9Vp6uTc8&t=99s

[Thatweirdinputlag]

There is a video on Hardware Nexus's youtube channel, it was an interview between Steve & Johnny Guru "The Power Supply guy". Explaining a little bit about the EMI Filters present in the power supplies. Also, another link explaining what is the functionality of the EMI Filter and how it works..

https://youtu.be/yDX_1PWUWdw?t=125 - JG's video
https://www.kemet.com/en/us/technical-r ... plies.html - EMI Filtering mechanism

Thank you for the video, from your perspective, what do you understand and your input, just wants to ensure I'm hearing the same thing from the video. Always good to see other people's points of view

My input on that video is for some reason All what Johnny was aiming at is the filtration that is happening on the return current side, and not the input as to adhere to EMC Regulations and EMI emission standards. Maybe after all, it is true and whatever goes to the components inside the PC themselves at the end is just pure/clean DC Power, after all the conversions, etc. I'm certainly not even the least qualified to attest to how SMPS Typology works and whatnot, so I genuinely have no idea. But you can tell in the video that they never mentioned the quality of the power supplied to the PSU itself, no idea why.

I've contacted Seasonic Support previously asking them about how can a dirty power grid effect the power supply. All I got was vague answers and replies. Basically I explained the situation with a little bit of info as what we have tried and what we are experiencing. I also asked them about their Prime Titanium Series. Those were the replies;

Reply 1:

Thank you for contacting Seasonic and sorry to read your issue.

While our PRIME Series will probably behave better, if you have any issue with your grid, in a way or another it may affect the PRIME as well. So before to make such change and while we were unable to read the 73 pages of your links on Overclock forum, we can only provide some general guidelines:
All outlets are properly grounded? Do these outlets have been tested by an electrician?
Do you have available some Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR) device or some UPS with such feature to see if by filtering the power received by the PSU, you will have less issues. Could be a good solution.
Eventually see if you can add some ferrites on your AC power cord cables and DC cables (between your PSU and components)
Main problem with such issue is that if the problem is outside of your PSU/computer, if you are unable to found the source of it, you may end with this problem no matter the PSU models or brands. Maybe contact your local electricity provider for them to check the lines.

Reply 2:

Thank you for your reply.

While we would like to bring more input, the issue seems not related to power supply as the whole neighborhood seems to have the same issue in a way.
This said, if any leakage is happening above the standard approved one, it can be indeed dangerous not only for your components but also for you. In such situation, your PC case should give you a shock as leakage will remain if you do not have a grounded outlet. Just in case, you have some device that can assist for house without ground: Residual-current device - Wikipedia.
Also, a way to see if you can replicate your issue would be to bring your PC to a computer shop outside your area and see if you can confirm any issue when there especially if they have grounded / non grounded outlet. It should narrow down the issue. If the grid is the issue, then it's to your local electricity provider to handle such issue.

Thank you.

Reply 3:

For safety certification of a PSU, there's no ground impedance defined or required. There's only something regarding resistance (not the same as ground impedance) in CB certification:
image002.png

Now for the grid, usual issue it can give to a PSU it's Power Factor, efficiency or ripple issue. But none seems to be what you have.
Now if ferrites, UPS, AVR have been used and had limited effects, your issue looks like a mystery as such devices are usually the best way to solve grid issue.
You can still get one of those devices, it cannot make things worse and in any case, will help protect in a way your PSU and computer.

We do hope you will be able to find the issue for the all neighborhood.
Thank you.


Towards the end, I just felt that the CS is starting to be a little bit dismissive and so I just decided to stop.

[triplese]

Towards the end, I just felt that the CS is starting to be a little bit dismissive and so I just decided to stop.

Problem is definetely not caused by PSU (or other gear), because if that was - quantity of affected PC users was x1000 greater.
Need to start realize, that cause of problem not in internal in PC/Windows etc. Its external, so need to check powerline parameters, radio field, magnetic field, etc.
Keep in mind that proplayers playing on same consumer hardware at home, on arena they probably have much worse condition of radio field (wifi APs, microphone transmitters etc), so probably its something with electricity, which definitely better at arena and definitely properly mounted and calculated for high wattage load.