[EMI] 1500mV When computer is running!!!

[KingAzar]

KingAzar, and all of you guys:
I spoke to an electronic engineer, and he came to my house a few days ago with an oscilloscope. With the computer on, he noticed a value of 1.700mV... and he guaranteed me that with industrial filters he can bring the value down to 20. But if, as I think, the 1.700mV is due to my power supply (RM850X corsair), you guys just think that it is useless to install it? just because probably that value so high depends on the psu? I was stupid not to let him do the test with the computer off, so I would know without any doubt if the problem came from the electrical system or from the psu. However, if kingazar by replacing the PSU and installing the greenwave filters, has reached such a low value, could it be that if I keep my current PSU which is probably itself generating 1.700mV, but installing those industrial filters, I can bypass the problem?

I am pretty certain that your RM850X will produce dirty noise. I tested 3 units with Corsair and they are all producing something even the HX1500i which is a pretty expensive PSU was making nasty dirty noise. The best is to have something to measure. I received all my computer parts for my new PC with the Seasonic TX-1000 and I unless I'm very wrong, I am pretty sure that PSU will also produce something EMI-wise, I just hope that it's = or less to the HX1200 otherwise I'll be very disappointed.

Now, the good thing is that you know that even when your computer is ON, the noise on your line is high and your objective is to reduce it. I was able to get mine from 1500mV to 80-120mV when everything is ON and it's been weeks that I had no input lag on my mouse! But I'm also waiting on 2 extra filters to try to get lower than what I have currently.

They are a couple of industrial filters and also consumer high-graded filters that are installed straight from the panel box that will basically clean the entire house. An electrician proposed to me the Power Perfect Box (with modular filter), they are multiple versions the standard at $1195 and the heavy-duty at $1495. Have seen some videos about it and hmmm I'm not very convinced even if indeed it reduces the noise pretty well! video 1 and video 2
I've seen people trying to replicate the same result with 4 basic Greewanve noise filters from the panel box and get good results.

Now it all depends on the knowledge of what is currently running on your line and if the filter does the job that you expect. I decided to create 1 line from the panel box where all my computer stuff is connected and that same line is being filtered

[KingAzar]

That model is not available on Amazon Canada. Ugh!

I have 2 extra Greenwave Filters coming next week, which will be 4 in total, which I will mix with the Furman PST-8D before returning the power conditioner.

Until now my input lag hasn't come back so happy so far but still have some desync in Valorant so I'll try to maximize the noise on the line as much as possible.

Now the major update is that I will upgrade my computer to the latest hardware available on the market:
CPU: AMD 5950x to Intel 13900K
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII X570 to Gigabyte Aorus Master Z790
RAM: GSKILL 2 x 16Gb C19 3800Mhz to TEAMGROUP TForce 2 x 16Gb C38 7800Mhz
GPU: Gigabyte OC-Gaming 3090 to Gigabyte Aorus Master 4090
PSU: Corsair HX1200 to Seasonic Prime TX-1000

Let see how it goes next week!

This looks like an overkill for just about anything, what is your line of work, do you really need those upgrades? If I were you, i'd get the 13700K, stay below 7000Mhz ram frequency for now "the platform is still relatively new and you'll run into all sorts of stability issues with those speeds not to mention you'll be heavily relying on your CPU's silicon to be able to keep up with those ram sticks", TridentZ offering of 6400Mhz cl32 is a great choice imo. Also, either wait for the 4080ti or 4090ti if you unless you absolutely need to upgrade your card then I guess 4090 it is, reason is the GPU Market is at a weird unstable place in regard to demand and pricing.

As for the power supply, I have the same model available at a shop super close to me and I was wondering whether I should get it or not, the one I currently use is also a seasonic but their PX series not TX "Platinum rating not Titanium". Would be great if you can do a noise test once you get that! I will also be ordering an EMI meter, the Tri-field one is my best option since it can tolerate 110-250V and 50-60hz. Where I live, the entire home is supplied with 230V 50Hz.

I have other purposes that justify my upgrade "FlightSim" and not just Valorant. I got some deal around certain parts so I decided to plunge. I will do the testing on the Seasonic PSU. It's already here but I'm a bit lazy at the moment to take it out, I'll wait for all parts to be here and mount all.

Ohh, the good old Flightsim.. 13900k it is.. I actually just want to see if the PSU unplugged from the PC or as a stand-alone plugged to the Power is making any noise. However, no hurries mate, let us know when you hook everything up! Best of luck

Seasonic Prime TX-1000 will emit between 300 and 400 mV better than the HX1200
On the video with a test with zero filtering. Unsure what it went YOYO but after that got stable around 370-400 mV

Now with the computer running with the new hardware, it seems to emit more EMI. Instead of being at 80-120 mV with two filters, I get to 250+. Unsure if I am doing something wrong but yeah will play along. The other 2 filters are coming this week I hope!

[Thatweirdinputlag]

Seasonic Prime TX-1000 will emit between 300 and 400 mV better than the HX1200
On the video with a test with zero filtering. Unsure what it went YOYO but after that got stable around 370-400 mV

Now with the computer running with the new hardware, it seems to emit more EMI. Instead of being at 80-120 mV with two filters, I get to 250+. Unsure if I am doing something wrong but yeah will play along. The other 2 filters are coming this week I hope!

Thank you for taking your time in doing this. This was partially one of my concerns, EMI filtration tends to actually consume power, power that will not be recorded as "output" power hence reducing the efficiency of the PSU. I.E Better filteration = less EMI = more power loss = less efficiency. I'm assuming in order for Seasonic to reach the Titanium level efficiency in their TX series they had to compromise with filtration. Probably the reason why a lower standard "HX1200 which is Platinum rated" has lower efficiency when it comes to input vs output power, yet better filtration.

However, Based on Cybenetics papers, the Seasonic does actually have 1 more X-Cap, which is a safety capacitor used mainly for EMI filtration:

Corsair HX1200: 6x Y caps, 2x X caps, 2x CM chokes, 1x MOV
Seasonic TX-1000: 6x Y caps, 3x X caps, 2x CM chokes, 1x MOV, 1x Discharge IC

That said, it does not include how big each of those capacitors are or their rating.

Some nice reads if you're interested:
https://hal.science/hal-01887159/document
https://www.electronicdesign.com/techno ... r-supplies

What I'm confused about is, what part of the EMC standards lets 1 PSU, unhooked from the system, consuming <0.01watts produce that much EMI? Or maybe the EMI Meter that you use is not strictly indicative of what types of measurements the EMC Standards use? No idea tbh.

Thanks for the video again!

[TomerA]

Also, I was playing around with EMF Meter, and like you guys said some components will emit something. So far these components get some detection:
- PSU
- AIO Water Pump (Is if from the Infiniti Glass)?
- Memory RAM (Is it from the RGB?)
- Fan (Is it from the RGB?

Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aoZ8ZvGQ7cPwBnSR9

That is completely normal, as long as the reader doesn't detect anything beyond 1-2 ft away from any electronic equipment. In general, anything that carries rapidly changing electrical currents will have electromagnetic emissions. A typical 12900k CPU for instance has close to 3 Billion transistors which can switch on and off at an extremely high frequency. So to simplify it, assuming a 5000MHz CPU frequency then each of those transistors are switching on and off 5,000,000,000 times a second and that is what emits the electromagnetic interference. Same goes to basically every component in your system. Most PC Fans however are DC fans that come with a 4th pin for PWM signal "Pulse-Width Modulation", which sends high frequency waves of pulses rather than the full DC current "Direct Current" to make them spin, they are more efficient and quieter than regular DC "3-Pin fans" since they can operate at lower rpms and consume less energy while making less noise, even though they are actually making noise from those pulses, but the frequency of that noise is well beyond any audible sound for the human's range of hearing. those pulses however also produces electromagnetic emissions.

In general don't take the readings of your EMF meter at heart, as long as there are no emissions beyond 1-1.5ft away then it's normal. As for the emissions inside of your case itself, well, all I can tell you is that you have so many streamers with their RGB Puke cases displayed in the background and they don't experience any of our issues. You can play with spread-spectrum values in your Bios, but that "in my humble opinion" changes nothing, since the amount of EMI emissions will still be present, they are just spread over varying frequencies "to adhere to EMC regulations".

Thank you so much for the explanation! This is awesome

Question: Since the PSU is emitting EMI in the electric line, does that also mean that my computer is self-inflecting bad electricity?

Yes, that's right. Your computer itself emits bad electricity. This makes any switching power supply. Router power supply, phone charger, LED lamps, washing machines, TVs, monitors. The more powerful the power supply, the more it emits bad electricity.
To combat bad electricity, you need:
1) online ups
2) inverter voltage stabilizer
3) isolating transformer.
I recommend options 1 and 2.
You can ask for an online ups test or an inverter voltage regulator and see if it will affect your computer.

Hi man, I'm reading your comments over the forum, and it seems like you know what you are talking about.
I wanted to ask, can you suggest me on a Online UPS to buy?
Unfortunately, back in the days I've purchased a regular UPS (non Online)
Eaton 5E 2000i USB + Program which did not resolve my EMI issues.

I would really appreciate your response, thanks in advance.

[KingAzar]

Seasonic Prime TX-1000 will emit between 300 and 400 mV better than the HX1200
On the video with a test with zero filtering. Unsure what it went YOYO but after that got stable around 370-400 mV

Now with the computer running with the new hardware, it seems to emit more EMI. Instead of being at 80-120 mV with two filters, I get to 250+. Unsure if I am doing something wrong but yeah will play along. The other 2 filters are coming this week I hope!

Thank you for taking your time in doing this. This was partially one of my concerns, EMI filtration tends to actually consume power, power that will not be recorded as "output" power hence reducing the efficiency of the PSU. I.E Better filteration = less EMI = more power loss = less efficiency. I'm assuming in order for Seasonic to reach the Titanium level efficiency in their TX series they had to compromise with filtration. Probably the reason why a lower standard "HX1200 which is Platinum rated" has lower efficiency when it comes to input vs output power, yet better filtration.

However, Based on Cybenetics papers, the Seasonic does actually have 1 more X-Cap, which is a safety capacitor used mainly for EMI filtration:

Corsair HX1200: 6x Y caps, 2x X caps, 2x CM chokes, 1x MOV
Seasonic TX-1000: 6x Y caps, 3x X caps, 2x CM chokes, 1x MOV, 1x Discharge IC

That said, it does not include how big each of those capacitors are or their rating.

Some nice reads if you're interested:
https://hal.science/hal-01887159/document
https://www.electronicdesign.com/techno ... r-supplies

What I'm confused about is, what part of the EMC standards lets 1 PSU, unhooked from the system, consuming <0.01watts produce that much EMI? Or maybe the EMI Meter that you use is not strictly indicative of what types of measurements the EMC Standards use? No idea tbh.

Thanks for the video again!

I knew I was not doing something right but after putting in the right configuration I was able to get it stable around 85mV with 2 filters which I could not do with the HX1200i = VIDEO!

[Thatweirdinputlag]

I knew I was not doing something right but after putting in the right configuration I was able to get it stable around 85mV with 2 filters which I could not do with the HX1200i = VIDEO!

That's actually pretty neat! You ended up plugging the filters back to back?

Did you try gaming while the meter is on? Can you also do more measurements at different times/days? No need for a video ofc, just a follow-up..

I guess for you now the testing phase begins, 3-4 weeks should be optimal. Plus you still have 2 more filters on the way..

[KingAzar]

I knew I was not doing something right but after putting in the right configuration I was able to get it stable around 85mV with 2 filters which I could not do with the HX1200i = VIDEO!

That's actually pretty neat! You ended up plugging the filters back to back?

Did you try gaming while the meter is on? Can you also do more measurements at different times/days? No need for a video ofc, just a follow-up..

I guess for you now the testing phase begins, 3-4 weeks should be optimal. Plus you still have 2 more filters on the way..

Here is what's going on

I now have 4 filters and the gain is not huge but still good to see. The best configuration on a small single circuit power bar would be 2 + 2 and have your pc connected in the middle. Now I am between 50 to 65mV with, smart light ON, 4 phone charging, dimmer light on: Video

Gaming-wise, all my mice are very responsive, I don't even know which one to use, the floating lag feeling has been gone since I went from 1500mV to 120mV and now at 55mV, it feels the same. In-game experience is also great, I have more time to react when my ping is on the good side (depending on which server I play) but even on high ping (65) I still do things that were head-hurting to accomplish before!

To be honest I am happy for now! I will keep you posted in the next coming weeks! I decided to return the Furman, this 4 little guys are doing great

[Thatweirdinputlag]

Here is what's going on

I now have 4 filters and the gain is not huge but still good to see. The best configuration on a small single circuit power bar would be 2 + 2 and have your pc connected in the middle. Now I am between 50 to 65mV with, smart light ON, 4 phone charging, dimmer light on: Video

Gaming-wise, all my mice are very responsive, I don't even know which one to use, the floating lag feeling has been gone since I went from 1500mV to 120mV and now at 55mV, it feels the same. In-game experience is also great, I have more time to react when my ping is on the good side (depending on which server I play) but even on high ping (65) I still do things that were head-hurting to accomplish before!

To be honest I am happy for now! I will keep you posted in the next coming weeks! I decided to return the Furman, this 4 little guys are doing great

Wonderful mate, congrats! Keep in mind that new rigs always tend to work nicely, I.E. no input lag, barely any desync or lag problems so on and so forth. At least that was one of the main observable results of getting a new setup. However, I have a great deal of optimism regarding your case. Best of luck and keep us posted!

[assombrosso]

I knew I was not doing something right but after putting in the right configuration I was able to get it stable around 85mV with 2 filters which I could not do with the HX1200i = VIDEO!

That's actually pretty neat! You ended up plugging the filters back to back?

Did you try gaming while the meter is on? Can you also do more measurements at different times/days? No need for a video ofc, just a follow-up..

I guess for you now the testing phase begins, 3-4 weeks should be optimal. Plus you still have 2 more filters on the way..

Here is what's going on

I now have 4 filters and the gain is not huge but still good to see. The best configuration on a small single circuit power bar would be 2 + 2 and have your pc connected in the middle. Now I am between 50 to 65mV with, smart light ON, 4 phone charging, dimmer light on: Video

Gaming-wise, all my mice are very responsive, I don't even know which one to use, the floating lag feeling has been gone since I went from 1500mV to 120mV and now at 55mV, it feels the same. In-game experience is also great, I have more time to react when my ping is on the good side (depending on which server I play) but even on high ping (65) I still do things that were head-hurting to accomplish before!

To be honest I am happy for now! I will keep you posted in the next coming weeks! I decided to return the Furman, this 4 little guys are doing great

In a bad location, what we noticed is, electricity affects components gradually until lag fully settles in and then can’t be fixed, that should take around 6-9 days to fully settle in, so be ready, god bless.

[dervu]

I knew I was not doing something right but after putting in the right configuration I was able to get it stable around 85mV with 2 filters which I could not do with the HX1200i = VIDEO!

That's actually pretty neat! You ended up plugging the filters back to back?

Did you try gaming while the meter is on? Can you also do more measurements at different times/days? No need for a video ofc, just a follow-up..

I guess for you now the testing phase begins, 3-4 weeks should be optimal. Plus you still have 2 more filters on the way..

Here is what's going on

I now have 4 filters and the gain is not huge but still good to see. The best configuration on a small single circuit power bar would be 2 + 2 and have your pc connected in the middle. Now I am between 50 to 65mV with, smart light ON, 4 phone charging, dimmer light on: Video

Gaming-wise, all my mice are very responsive, I don't even know which one to use, the floating lag feeling has been gone since I went from 1500mV to 120mV and now at 55mV, it feels the same. In-game experience is also great, I have more time to react when my ping is on the good side (depending on which server I play) but even on high ping (65) I still do things that were head-hurting to accomplish before!

To be honest I am happy for now! I will keep you posted in the next coming weeks! I decided to return the Furman, this 4 little guys are doing great

In a bad location, what we noticed is, electricity affects components gradually until lag fully settles in and then can’t be fixed, that should take around 6-9 days to fully settle in, so be ready, god bless.

By saying "fully settles in and then can't be fixed" do you mean that it is not working better even if you disconnect PC completely for whole day or more and then connect again?