Stuttering with mobile 4090, but NOT with integrated graphics

[john_k]

Hi! First off, very helpful site and tools. They've been very useful in demonstrating the stutter problem that I've been experiencing with my new laptop. So, my problem is this - at my 240 hz refresh rate, my laptop's 4090 has noticeable slowdown/speedup/hitching/micro-stuttering, even when I'm hitting 240 fps at low settings. The card is performing well as far as fps and settings are concerned, and the temps are fine, but the frame timings are just very bad. The movement across the screen just feels inconsistent. When I disable my 4090 and use the intel igpu, the problem disappears entirely. I'm using the latest nvidia drivers, and I've tried disabling/enabling gsync and vsync in the nvidia control panel. Any ideas about what can be causing this behavior?

The first picture is with only my graphics card enabled (optimus off, gpu only). The second picture is with my graphics card off (igpu only).

[Chief Blur Buster]

I have noticed similar problems occasionally on some of my systems -- even on a desktop RTX 3080 -- and I'm also trying to trace the cause of the problem. This seems to have only happened recently with Windows 11 and latest GPU drivers, so I will forward this to someone I know at NVIDIA.

There is a pattern of a recent boom of user reports about this, and I'm even personally affected -- not always.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12170
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12162
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12126

It often goes for many seconds without the red spikes, then suddenly, 1/240sec spikes (240Hz), refreshtime spikes as if VSYNCs are being spontaneously missed. Even in Performance Plan, and Min CPU 100%, even with Process Lasso forcing chrome.exe to High Priority, and fewer software running in background (disable mouse software, disable RGB software, etc).

This is something that happened only in the last few days, and only inconsistently; and right now as of June 20, 2023, there is no known fix (yet).

I wonder;
- if it is a driver change; (NVIDIA)
- if it is a Windows 11 change; (Microsoft)
- if it is a Chrome change; (Google)

But it also happens in FireFox too! So if two different browser engines show those periodic refreshtime spikes, then I think it's a system wide problem (NVIDIA driver bug or Windows 11 bug).

Graphics driver testers at Intel/AMD/NVIDIA should add www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph as it is an excellent canary-in-coal-mine for special-patterned stutters. Browsers are terrible at accurate frame pacing, so browser-based frametime inaccuracies are EXCELLENT benchmarks of timing bugs in a system -- so whatever happens in this browser (nothing running, only chrom.exe running www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph ....) is a canary that indicates a possible jitter issue for games.

What happens in this, also are indicative of issues that sometimes affects game stutters too;

If you move the mouse continuously on top of the TestUFO, it kinda helps (to an extent).

This is mighty weird. Anyway, sending a permalink to this post to NVIDIA;

[john_k]

Thanks for your reply - I have Windows 11 as well, but the problem for me has been going on longer than a few days. I've also posted to the subreddit of Zephyrus M16 owners, to see if any of the 2023 model owners have this issue as well, and linked them to the testUFO graph. I suppose I'll have to wait and see!

[andrelip]

I suspect it is either power savings or high temps. Use HWInfo and check if your effective GPU clock is high enough.

If it's not, try afterburner or use the disable p state regedit and test again.

I have zero problems with this test, but I'm using the desktop version of it.

[Ragerlis]

I have noticed similar problems occasionally on some of my systems -- even on a desktop RTX 3080 -- and I'm also trying to trace the cause of the problem. This seems to have only happened recently with Windows 11 and latest GPU drivers, so I will forward this to someone I know at NVIDIA.

There is a pattern of a recent boom of user reports about this, and I'm even personally affected -- not always.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12170
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12162
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12126

It often goes for many seconds without the red spikes, then suddenly, 1/240sec spikes (240Hz), refreshtime spikes as if VSYNCs are being spontaneously missed. Even in Performance Plan, and Min CPU 100%, even with Process Lasso forcing chrome.exe to High Priority, and fewer software running in background (disable mouse software, disable RGB software, etc).

This is something that happened only in the last few days, and only inconsistently; and right now as of June 20, 2023, there is no known fix (yet).

I wonder;
- if it is a driver change; (NVIDIA)
- if it is a Windows 11 change; (Microsoft)
- if it is a Chrome change; (Google)

But it also happens in FireFox too! So if two different browser engines show those periodic refreshtime spikes, then I think it's a system wide problem (NVIDIA driver bug or Windows 11 bug).

Graphics driver testers at Intel/AMD/NVIDIA should add www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph as it is an excellent canary-in-coal-mine for special-patterned stutters. Browsers are terrible at accurate frame pacing, so browser-based frametime inaccuracies are EXCELLENT benchmarks of timing bugs in a system -- so whatever happens in this browser (nothing running, only chrom.exe running www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph ....) is a canary that indicates a possible jitter issue for games.

What happens in this, also are indicative of issues that sometimes affects game stutters too;

If you move the mouse continuously on top of the TestUFO, it kinda helps (to an extent).

This is mighty weird. Anyway, sending a permalink to this post to NVIDIA;

Just a heads up about this specific problem, actually in total accident while installing a new nvme SSD, stumbled on a new clue about this issue.

My old(z390 asus 9700k 2080) setup and new(i7 12k 4080 z590 asus) have a constant microstutter visible in the UFO test frametime test, usually into 2 to 4ms range variation +- in a 240 fps range and random infrequent bigger spikes(4.16ms expected frametime), so its a HUGE variation and its very visible giving a motion sickness feeling while playing and a overall imprecise/lag feel, even with input lag tests saying otherwise with a nvidia reflex monitor.

Ok, i just learned to live with it, but while installing a new nvmeSSD, i got a variety of problems, ranging from blue screens, hangs and overall poor performance, which lead me to turn off a BIOS option named "AMI Native NVMe Driver Support" and "M.2_2" to off.

And voilà! Stutter due screenshot, its stable otherwise.



Its so low now, as we can see it ranges between 0.1 and 0.2ms most of the time, a reduction in 90%+ of overall frametime variance.



Its at least a curious event, how affected frametime stability and makes some sense, as reports increasing in the same timeframe of nvme SSDs getting hugely popular and cheap world wide.

Maybe its nothing and its just my systems behavior but at least i hope this shed some light on the problem.

Edit: Reference with it enabled.




All SS's are with the system idle, as you can imagine, ingame things get WAY more erratic.

[Chief Blur Buster]

The problem disappeared for me too, but not because of an SSD driver. Probably a combination of driver update and Windows update over the last while. I guess a bug got fixed somewhere.

There may be other causes, but I'm good now too.

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