Any no-compromises upgrade from BenQ XL2720Z in 2023?

[Ozzuneoj]

I have had my XL2720Z for around 7 years now and it has been a great monitor. The main weaknesses are of course the low PPI of 1080P on a 27" display, and the viewing angles of a TN panel... but those haven't been a huge issue for my use case.

I have been using the monitor at 120Hz with Blur Reduction enabled 100% of the time for the past 7 years and it works great. Even when browsing the web I love how clear everything is when scrolling. I have been using the Blur Busters Strobe Utility that entire time as well.

I have been keeping my eyes open for something newer for a while now, but I just haven't seen anything that seemed like an upgrade in all aspects.

I wouldn't mind something a little larger (my eyes aren't what they were 7 years ago), higher res, higher refresh rate, better image quality etc... but I think I'd really really notice if the motion blur was worse.

I have a 55" LG C1 in my living room and for our use cases I have settled on just using it at 120Hz with no BFI. It looks phenomenal, but there is a clear difference in the clarity of motion compared to my XL2720Z with blur reduction enabled.

Does anything exist that is ~30-32", 1440P or higher, 240Hz, with BFI\strobing comparable to or better than the XL2720Z? If not, is there anything that comes close to that? The non-negotiable features would be 1440P+ and BFI\strobing.

Thanks guys.

[RonsonPL]

There's nothing matching EVERY good aspect of XL2720Z, but there's a few models that are good in some aspects.
Personally, I don't know much, as for me, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 and 120Hz strobed modes are a MUST, and that's rare.
Browse some threads here, read what Chief wrote about the near term future. Good stuff is around the corner, in form of both OLEDs getting BFI soon, 480-500Hz being likely for late 2024 and BlurBusters 2.0 certificate being created. Let's wait and see what fruits it will bring.
I'm considering getting LG 800B just for the purpose of testing, but heard a lot of bad comments about it's quality control. Issues with backlight ununiformity/bleed etc.
It only has 100-120Hz strobe range but is just 220€ at the moment which is a breathe of fresh air in the stale air of gaming monitor's pricing.
It's only 27" though. I wish I could share any knowledge about 32", but for me, either the monitor has everything required for 2.0 certificate, or it doesn't exist if the price is above 300€. Therefore, I don't know anything about 99,999% of what's currently on the market.
If you've waited this long, I'd suggest postponing to early 2025. You'll have much more options and much more solid info on what's coming within a few months.
Also, consider other paths, like getting an older (sadly, newer = less BFI options and functionalities ) LG OLED TV or wearable displays. The micro-OLED googles are super expensive and flawed but it's only a few months since the first one was released with much more events on the horizon, which are likely to improve both quality and pricing.
After watching 20 minutes of my own gampay video in VR, while lying down and having the virtual huge screen above (like on the ceiling) - I know I'm not buying a TV ever again. Bigscreen Beyond introduces lightweight. This way of looking at content/gaming has a big future. I have 90% chance of being completely wrong on this one, but I expect that by the end of 2026, the revolution will already have started.
So, plan your upgrade path accordingly. Don't spend 2500€ on a monitor released just a moment before a huge change happens (like 500Hz OLEDs or wearable VR/AR headsets with proper low persistence/BFI modes implemented)

[Ozzuneoj]

There's nothing matching EVERY good aspect of XL2720Z, but there's a few models that are good in some aspects.
Personally, I don't know much, as for me, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 and 120Hz strobed modes are a MUST, and that's rare.
Browse some threads here, read what Chief wrote about the near term future. Good stuff is around the corner, in form of both OLEDs getting BFI soon, 480-500Hz being likely for late 2024 and BlurBusters 2.0 certificate being created. Let's wait and see what fruits it will bring.
I'm considering getting LG 800B just for the purpose of testing, but heard a lot of bad comments about it's quality control. Issues with backlight ununiformity/bleed etc.
It only has 100-120Hz strobe range but is just 220€ at the moment which is a breathe of fresh air in the stale air of gaming monitor's pricing.
It's only 27" though. I wish I could share any knowledge about 32", but for me, either the monitor has everything required for 2.0 certificate, or it doesn't exist if the price is above 300€. Therefore, I don't know anything about 99,999% of what's currently on the market.
If you've waited this long, I'd suggest postponing to early 2025. You'll have much more options and much more solid info on what's coming within a few months.
Also, consider other paths, like getting an older (sadly, newer = less BFI options and functionalities ) LG OLED TV or wearable displays. The micro-OLED googles are super expensive and flawed but it's only a few months since the first one was released with much more events on the horizon, which are likely to improve both quality and pricing.
After watching 20 minutes of my own gampay video in VR, while lying down and having the virtual huge screen above (like on the ceiling) - I know I'm not buying a TV ever again. Bigscreen Beyond introduces lightweight. This way of looking at content/gaming has a big future. I have 90% chance of being completely wrong on this one, but I expect that by the end of 2026, the revolution will already have started.
So, plan your upgrade path accordingly. Don't spend 2500€ on a monitor released just a moment before a huge change happens (like 500Hz OLEDs or wearable VR/AR headsets with proper low persistence/BFI modes implemented)

Thanks for the reply. I have been browsing here for many years (this forum is why I bought this monitor 8 years ago), so I keep up on the latest discussions, but lately almost everything is focused on extremely high priced displays these days.

My XL2720Z was purchased direct from BenQ as a refurb and it was very affordable (under $250 I think). These modern "solutions" are almost all $899 or higher. Add in an $800-$1000 black frame insertion device and you've got a great setup that is so far beyond my price range that it's not even worth talking about. Alternatively, people are focusing on 360Hz-500Hz non-strobed gaming displays (also $900+), which will not give any improvement to motion clarity if the frame rate is still in the 100-200fps range, so they basically require very low graphics settings, insanely power GPUs, or both.

I need a monitor, so wearables are not an option for me, sadly.

I already have an LG C1 55" TV in the living room as mentioned. I don't think even a 42" OLED would be a good fit for my needs, and the prices of those are still very high. If burn-in was an absolute non-issue, they ran at 240Hz and had better BFI I would consider saving up for a long time to maybe get one... but they fall quite short in those areas now.

After doing some research I do think that the Gigabyte Aorus FI32Q-X is a super nice monitor, with basically everything I was looking for, but the price is still very high at $629. It has blur reduction (even with VRR if I want to experiment with that), 1440P, 240Hz (280Hz OC), and it's larger than my 27" to compensate for my "aging" eyes. It also uses a normal RGB subpixel layout and seemingly no KSF-phosphor issues. I would really consider the FI27Q-X for $200 and just try to sit closer, but it stupidly has the BGR layout which is not something I want to get into.

Honestly, if the FI27Q-X was RGB or the M27Q-X didn't have the KSF-phosphor red ghosting issues, either of those would be about as close to perfect for my needs as I'm likely to get for under $500 (though the lack of swivel on the M27Q-X stand is really lame and would affect my uses for it).

I just hate having to have these lame compromises for a display that is so much more expensive than what I bought almost 10 years ago.

[Chief Blur Buster]

I observe that the topic title is "no-compromises" so XG2431 is the only one that seems to have no lineitem downgrade relative to XL2720Z (even the lag of XG2431 is lower too). XG2431 is capable of less strobe crosstalk (for same Hz) than XL2720Z. And you can get giant vertical totals (VT4000+) for 60Hz modes. View www.blurbusters.com/xg2431

OLED BFI is good and also a definitely good candidate -- only if you accept a bit of an MPRT downgrade to gain the benefits of OLED. It can be worth it! But keep in mind that OLED BFI MPRT (4ms for 240Hz OLED BFI executing on 60-120Hz) are higher than LCD strobe MPRTs (typically 0.5ms-2ms).

To understand how strobe pulsewidth affects MPRT, view TestUFO Variable Persistence BFI for 240Hz Monitors, or adjust the Pulse Width of XL2720Z during 3000 pixels/sec motion like www.testufo.com/map

[Ozzuneoj]

I observe that the topic title is "no-compromises" so XG2431 is the only one that seems to have no lineitem downgrade relative to XL2720Z (even the lag of XG2431 is lower too). XG2431 is capable of less strobe crosstalk (for same Hz) than XL2720Z. And you can get giant vertical totals (VT4000+) for 60Hz modes. View www.blurbusters.com/xg2431

OLED BFI is good and also a definitely good candidate -- only if you accept a bit of an MPRT downgrade to gain the benefits of OLED. It can be worth it! But keep in mind that OLED BFI MPRT (4ms for 240Hz OLED BFI executing on 60-120Hz) are higher than LCD strobe MPRTs (typically 0.5ms-2ms).

To understand how strobe pulsewidth affects MPRT, view TestUFO Variable Persistence BFI for 240Hz Monitors, or adjust the Pulse Width of XL2720Z during 3000 pixels/sec motion like www.testufo.com/map

Thank you for the input. The XG2431 is definitely an impressive monitor. If only there was a 27" or larger 1440P equivalent. Sadly, I can't go down to 24", and I'd like to go up in resolution.

I would seriously consider an OLED model if the price wasn't so high. The LG C1 in my living room is the most incredible image I've ever seen and the first display that has truly wowed me since the days of running a top of the line CRT at 2048x1536@85Hz. I know that there may be some more affordable OLED models from Dough coming eventually, but the price is still quite high and I would be concerned about burn-in due to my usage patterns. I would like to get many many trouble-free years out of whatever I buy, like I have had with my XL2720Z.

Have you had an opportunity to see the strobing quality on a Gigabyte FI32Q X? It's still very pricey but seems to have absolutely every feature I could ask for (except for OLED blacks of course). If the FI27Q-X was RGB rather than BGR or the M27Q-X didn't have the KSF-phosphor red ghosting issues, either of those would be great too, though I'm unsure how good the strobing is on those too. If only Gigabyte would contact you to put out proper Blur Busters Approved 27" and 32" monitors like the FI32Q-X and FI27Q-X, with top quality strobing and without the BGR and KSF phosphor issues. That would be fantastic!

[Ozzuneoj]

Well, this is kind of weird timing. I just saw a news article about Gigabyte announcing a new M27Q-X Rev. 2.0 just yesterday.

Here is the product page:
https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Monitor/M27Q-X-rev-20/sp#sp

... and a comparison of what is currently known about it vs the Rev. 1.0 on DisplaySpecifications:
https://www.displayspecifications.com/e ... 732726e8b3

Seems like the color and brightness specs have shifted around a bit. Hopefully it is standard RGB and doesn't use KSF phosphors.

Still, it's too bad they couldn't also add the ability to rotate the display on the base. That's such a dumb thing to leave off of such a nice display.

We'll see what the price is when it's released.


EDIT: Wow, I emailed Gigabyte for more info about this new revision and they replied to me within half an hour. Amazing!

I asked:

*Does the display panel have an RGB or BGR subpixel layout?

*Does the panel's backlight utilize KSF phosphors or some other technology?

*Can you provide the model or at least brand of the panel used in this monitor?

*When will it be available at retail in the USA?

*What will be the MSRP?

Also, is there a current plan to release an updated FI27Q-X as well? The current FI27Q-X uses a BGR subpixel layout, which causes many issues for various programs. An updated model that uses standard RGB would be very nice. Alternatively, if the M27Q-X simply had a full tilt\height\rotate stand that would be great too. The lack of rotation on M-line of monitors is unfortunate, but they otherwise look like great products!

They replied:

Dear Customer,

Our product team can only disclose:

It is a RGB sub pixel layout.

It will be available in Early October.

MSRP will be similar to the original model.

FI27Q X will not have a revision 2.

M27Q X & V2 have a tilt and height adjustable stand but will not feature rotate.


We thank you for the feedback and good questions.

Best Regards,

Jimmy

So, RGB is good. I have a feeling it won't be KSF since several of the color and brightness specs have changed, but we won't know until someone gets to test one after release.

If it's about the same price as the previous model, it should be in the $400 US range, which isn't dirt cheap but is pretty good for all the features you get. Unless there is some other glaring flaw or shortcoming, this could be my next monitor.


EDIT: In other news, I see that Dough is pushing their new Spectrum Black 32" 4k 240Hz OLED for $699 if you pre-order. Those are some mighty tantalizing specs for the money, but without knowing about how it will stack up regarding BFI and other features, it seems like a huge gamble. Especially since you won't get the thing until April 2024 at the earliest (ouch!) and the company is so new\small that long-term support is completely unknown. Very risky purchase all around for someone like me ($699 is a lot of money). I can see why they made the pre-order price so low versus what you'd pay for a display like this from another brand (probably $1000 or more). ----

EDIT2: Actually, nevermind. I just realized that Dough Spectrum is Eve Spectrum renamed. Looking up their reputation will tell you that it is NOT a good idea to invest $699 (or any other amount) into this product nearly a year before it is expected to ship. There aren't even any OLED panels on the market that match the specs their claiming, which means they have no product to even build yet, let alone sell. If it ends up being a good monitor when it eventually comes out, that's great. But I'm not gambling on it given the company's history. Yikes.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Keep in mind that you specified:

Personally, I don't know much, as for me, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 and 120Hz strobed modes are a MUST, and that's rare.

Most monitors do not support this. Doublecheck RTINGS to see if your model supports 60Hz single strobe, they test for that capability.

Also, if you prefer to hold out for OLED BFI, you should be informed I am now working with (at least) 3 OLED monitor vendors for BFI, so you might want to wait a bit. Be noted, the BFI range will still only be 60-120Hz, even for 240Hz panels, but at least it includes your strobe range preference.

[Ozzuneoj]

Keep in mind that you specified:

Personally, I don't know much, as for me, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 and 120Hz strobed modes are a MUST, and that's rare.

Most monitors do not support this. Doublecheck RTINGS to see if your model supports 60Hz single strobe, they test for that capability.

No, that wasn't me that said that. That was another poster. While I do like having the option for low Hz strobed modes, realistically I have almost never used them on my XL2720Z in 7+ years of ownership. 1080P at 120Hz with Blur Reduction (and your Strobe Utility of course) is what I have used for 99.99% of the time I've owned this display. I don't do console gaming at all, and for retro computing I just use a CRT, but I would definitely hang on to the XL2720Z either as a second display on my main system or for running software that specifically benefits from it's features.

For my next display I'd would like to have 1440P or 4K at 240Hz and strobe modes that look decent at 120Hz and higher refresh rates. VRR would be nice to tinker with too. Gigabyte tends to offer all of those, as well as the ability to tinker with VRR + strobe mode (Aim Stabilizer Sync), which I'm sure isn't perfect, but it's very cool that they even offer it.

Have you ever reached out to Gigabyte in particular to support the strobe utility or to improve their Aim Stabilizer modes at all?

Also, if you prefer to hold out for OLED BFI, you should be informed I am now working with (at least) 3 OLED monitor vendors for BFI, so you might want to wait a bit. Be noted, the BFI range will still only be 60-120Hz, even for 240Hz panels, but at least it includes your strobe range preference.

Again, the strobe range preference wasn't mine, so I don't think that's a huge deal for me. It would be nice to be able to have a strobe mode at 240Hz, just so I could see what it looks like, but I understand that isn't possible on OLED at this point.

It's also, sadly, very unlikely that any of the OLED monitors we're referring to will be affordable for someone like me. The world of $1600 GPUs and $1000+ monitors is just not for me. Spending a bunch on an LG C1 for the whole family to use, and for company to enjoy when we have people over to play games made sense, but I can't justify spending that much on my personal display when I'm used to a refurb 1080P LCD I bought back in 2016 for $250.

I'd love for my next monitor to be OLED, but the prices just aren't there yet. The 32" 4k 240Hz OLED from Dough sounds great on paper (except still no pivot... what the heck guys?) for the $699 preorder price, but after reading about their reputation and past experiences I'm definitely not throwing money at them for a product that doesn't exist yet and will possibly never ship (or even be refunded actually).

[Chief Blur Buster]

Good catch. With all these posts, I often read too fast to doublecheck who posted what -- oops.

Yes, OLEDs are expensive and it takes time for prices to fall. It's already lovely that most of the cheapest OLEDs on the market are the 240Hz OLEDs. I am impressed that several manufacturers (ASUS, LG) are available at high-3-figures on some US stores -- cheaper than non-sale TV-based OLEDs. Even sometimes the TV OLEDs are on sale at $800 each on Amazon USA, so keep an eye.

I suspect that 240 Hz OLEDs will fall somewhat quickly this decade as manufacture ramps up better. As 480Hz OLEDs are under development already (roadmapped for 2024 convention demos).

I currently have a feeling that OLED is going to be the tortise in the tortise-vs-hare race this decade, finishing this decade with probably a terrific 1000Hz+ bang that could outperform LCD refresh rates by the end of the decade.

It's still a long time to the end of the decade, so you gotta buy something now to tide you over until then -- but it is quite possible that the monitor after your next purchase, could feasibly be a sub-$500 OLED once the 1440p 240Hz fab capital costs are paid off and they keep the fab running, etc. Who knows?

[Ozzuneoj]

Good catch. With all these posts, I often read too fast to doublecheck who posted what -- oops.

Yes, OLEDs are expensive and it takes time for prices to fall. It's already lovely that most of the cheapest OLEDs on the market are the 240Hz OLEDs. I am impressed that several manufacturers (ASUS, LG) are available at high-3-figures on some US stores -- cheaper than non-sale TV-based OLEDs. Even sometimes the TV OLEDs are on sale at $800 each on Amazon USA, so keep an eye.

I suspect that 240 Hz OLEDs will fall somewhat quickly this decade as manufacture ramps up better. As 480Hz OLEDs are under development already (roadmapped for 2024 convention demos).

I currently have a feeling that OLED is going to be the tortise in the tortise-vs-hare race this decade, finishing this decade with probably a terrific 1000Hz+ bang that could outperform LCD refresh rates by the end of the decade.

It's still a long time to the end of the decade, so you gotta buy something now to tide you over until then -- but it is quite possible that the monitor after your next purchase, could feasibly be a sub-$500 OLED once the 1440p 240Hz fab capital costs are paid off and they keep the fab running, etc. Who knows?

No problem at all about the misquoted reply.

Yes, I'm also really pleased that we're seeing sub $1000 240Hz OLED monitors already. Pretty amazing really. I remember many years ago reading about a 15" 1024x768 OLED monitor that was something like $25,000 (and I'm sure the burn in was horrendous). This was probably 15 years ago now, but when you look at what has happened to the LCD monitor market in that same time, OLED has moved surprisingly quickly in all aspects.

I would definitely like to have an OLED (or MicroLED some day) display on my desk, but I think for my budget I'll have to settle for something much lower in price unless I keep my current display a couple more years.

I am very hopeful that the new Gigabyte M27Q-X Rev. 2.0 will be good (meaning: non-KSF) for ~$400 US when it comes out in a few months... but I feel like there has to be something else on the market that fits what I'm looking for. If you had to pick maybe 3 or 4 27" 1440P 240Hz monitors on the market that are a good buy compared to a ~$900 OLED, what would you choose? Any surprisingly decent monitors for under $300, or exceptional ones under $500? The color and viewing angles of IPS would be nice too. Admittedly, I do notice the color shifting at the edges of my TN XL2720Z when I look at it straight on. I've gotten used to it, but something that didn't do that would be really nice.

Traditionally, I have gone to the Blur Busters monitor lists, reviews and forums for recommendations, but it seems like there are so many monitors coming out these days that the site can't possibly cover them all. I don't see any 240Hz 1440P monitors on the lists here for example.

Anyway, take your time, but I do respect your opinion on these things, so any suggestions are welcome.

Also, without revealing anything you aren't supposed to reveal, have you been involved with any products that are coming out soon that may fit into the sub-$600 price range? Or, do you know of any coming from any companies that would stir up the sub-$600 market significantly?

Thanks Chief.