G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

[flood]

why do we need to have this discussion so many times

gsync isn't magic that makes 50fps look like 120fps. all it does is eliminate tearing, and it does so in a way that does not have the disadvantages of traditional double buffering vsync.

low refresh rate or framerate will always feel bad. but the definition of "low" varies from person to person. for example, for me, low would be anything <80fps

[Haste]

why do we need to have this discussion so many times

gsync isn't magic that makes 50fps look like 120fps. all it does is eliminate tearing, and it does so in a way that does not have the disadvantages of traditional double buffering vsync.

low refresh rate or framerate will always feel bad. but the definition of "low" varies from person to person. for example, for me, low would be anything <80fps

+1

The issue here is the PR from NVDIA and all the hype in the hardware websites. Best way to sell G-sync is to mislead the consumers into thinking it will magically make 45-60 fps feel smooth. Which is fundamentally impossible (except maybe with crazy amounts of artificial motion blur, but who would really want that)


The other big misconception is to think that G-sync will eliminate stutter. Again, no. It can't. If the game's frame-rate is all over the place or if the game engine is bad enough that the game feel stuttery even at a stable framerate. G-sync can't do anything about it.

I think blurbusters should insist more on these things. Because these misconceptions are everywhere on forums all over the net.
We had the "the eyes can't see more than 60fps" myth.
Now we already have a new one: "adaptive refresh eliminates stutter and makes 50fps perfectly smooth"

[GameLifter]

I understand that G-Sync doesn't magically make 40 fps look like 120fps. However, 40-50fps should not feel stuttery. When I say stuttery, I don't mean a frame rate drop. I mean it looks like it's dropping frames when you turn with a mouse in certain games when before having G-Sync on it didn't. I also clearly notice the frame stutters going away in Crysis 3 when using a controller to turn while it's in the EXACT same area with the same frame rate and everything. It is as clear as day that there are frame stutters in Crysis 3 with G-Sync on and using my mouse to turn.

I can literally stand in the same area where the fps is in the 50s, move the mouse and see it stutter then move the analog stick on my Xbox 360 controller and it won't have the stuttery motion. Yes, the framerate is in the 50s so it won't look quite as smooth as 120 fps I get that, but it should NOT look like it's dropping frames and giving a stuttery and jerky motion.

[Haste]

I know what you mean. Panning can feel a lot more stuttery than it should be for a given frame rate. Even though the mouse is polled at 1000Hz. And using a controller can mitigate it a little. ( For example in AC4 )

I don't know about G-sync actually causing stuttering though. I haven't experienced that.

[MrBrown]

I now know what OP meant actually.

So with the Vsync and no-Vsync, the monitor is refreshing at 144 hz and the mouse pointer is refreshing at 144 hz, even if the game only has like 80 fps. The mouse pointer still looks smooth because it is refreshing at 144hz (while the game might run at 40 fps for example).

With gsync- if the game only runs at 50 fps, you will only see 50 frames per second, which leads to the mouse pointer beeing stuttery.

Ive just tested the Nvidia Pendulum Demo and the mouse pointer does indeed feel "stuttery" at 40-60fps which the demo offers.

Ive also just tested it in Dota, and set the max_fps to 50 and the mouse pointer began to feel really laggy. With 144 hz and no vsync / no gsync, the mouse pointer is smooth even if I limit the game to max_fps 50. I can imagine that some games start feeling weird because of that fact.

But I guess it cant be avoided due to the nature of gsync.

[GameLifter]

Interesting, I just tried the Pendulum Demo and when setting it to 40 and 50 fps the motion didn't feel as smooth but it didn't have the same stuttery feeling I get with the games I've tested. To me, the less smooth motion in the demo seems like it's mainly due to the lower fps and not the mouse cursor skipping. Still, I get what you're saying. What I still wonder about is that when I tried Shadow Warrior it didn't always exhibit the same stuttering. The only time it really stuttered was due to the game engine. At least it appeared. I guess I'll have to test more games later.

[flood]

I can literally stand in the same area where the fps is in the 50s, move the mouse and see it stutter then move the analog stick on my Xbox 360 controller and it won't have the stuttery motion. Yes, the framerate is in the 50s so it won't look quite as smooth as 120 fps I get that, but it should NOT look like it's dropping frames and giving a stuttery and jerky motion.

do you mean in game pannign or mouse cursor movement?

The issue here is the PR from NVDIA and all the hype in the hardware websites. Best way to sell G-sync is to mislead the consumers into thinking it will magically make 45-60 fps feel smooth. Which is fundamentally impossible (except maybe with crazy amounts of artificial motion blur, but who would really want that)

and addd the fact that we're much more sensitive to smoothness when interacting with the mouse. 45 fps can look smooth for a video or an animation, but feels absolutely terrible when you try to use your mouse in a 45fps game.
gsync is a big step in the right direction but imo the main problem is that game devs are eager to trade fps for visual quality to make screenshots and static scenes look better.

[GameLifter]

I can literally stand in the same area where the fps is in the 50s, move the mouse and see it stutter then move the analog stick on my Xbox 360 controller and it won't have the stuttery motion. Yes, the framerate is in the 50s so it won't look quite as smooth as 120 fps I get that, but it should NOT look like it's dropping frames and giving a stuttery and jerky motion.

do you mean in game pannign or mouse cursor movement?

The issue here is the PR from NVDIA and all the hype in the hardware websites. Best way to sell G-sync is to mislead the consumers into thinking it will magically make 45-60 fps feel smooth. Which is fundamentally impossible (except maybe with crazy amounts of artificial motion blur, but who would really want that)

and addd the fact that we're much more sensitive to smoothness when interacting with the mouse. 45 fps can look smooth for a video or an animation, but feels absolutely terrible when you try to use your mouse in a 45fps game.
gsync is a big step in the right direction but imo the main problem is that game devs are eager to trade fps for visual quality to make screenshots and static scenes look better.

In game panning.

[Haste]

The issue here is the PR from NVDIA and all the hype in the hardware websites. Best way to sell G-sync is to mislead the consumers into thinking it will magically make 45-60 fps feel smooth. Which is fundamentally impossible (except maybe with crazy amounts of artificial motion blur, but who would really want that)

and addd the fact that we're much more sensitive to smoothness when interacting with the mouse. 45 fps can look smooth for a video or an animation, but feels absolutely terrible when you try to use your mouse in a 45fps game.
gsync is a big step in the right direction but imo the main problem is that game devs are eager to trade fps for visual quality to make screenshots and static scenes look better.

Totally. While not perfect, I found the Hobbit 1 and 2 at 48fps HFR to be surprisingly smooth for only 48fps. But I guess that's thanks to the way they filmed it. Shutter speed, panning speed, ...

And I agree with you about the developers. I think they are really not helping the current situation. Which is why Youtube's plans to support 60fps videos is a big deal. (60fps game trailers)

[MrBrown]

Well dont get Nvidia wrong ppl, Gsync is indeed a massive improvement to vsync. And if youre playing games that are typically played with a controller, like TR 2013 @ 50fps for example, you will not have negative effects of the mouse stuttering and the image indeed will be much smoother and tearing free than playing at a 60hz monitor with 50fps.

But it does seem like the negative side effect of gsync at low framerates is the stuttering mouse pointer, simply because with the old vsync and no-sync the mouse pointer still was refreshed 144 times per second even though the game ran at only 50fps. Because you had steady 144hz monitor refresh rate with vsync and no-sync. Now the with gsync the mouse pointer is only beeing refreshed and shown 50 times per second if the game runs at 50 fps. It sucks for point and click games like Mobas, RTS games etc. But usually those games arent that graphics heavy anyways.

Again you can test it in strategy games like SC2 or Dota etc. Just limit those games games to 50 fps in the console or 45 fps and you will see how all of a sudden the mouse starts to feel stuttery. In Dota just open the console and type fps_ max 45. It feels like playing at 60 hz monitor again, when you are actually used to 144 hz.

But for me its not a problem, as long as the fps stays above 100 in the games, heck even above 80, the mouse stuttering isnt really that much noticable.