Poor quality audio from PC. What gives?

[Manmademan]

Yeah, it does give some indication that there is something. But I don't think it is very accurate. The numbers should not change.

I have very accurate measurement device, which is quite expensive. Magnetic field does not change, when I move it to close to the water heater radiator. The slight deviation is from my shaking hands. This is as it should be.

Also one cheap way is to use AM radio. The noise should not change.

If you decide to call the electrician you can ask him to use earth leakage current clamp meter on those water pipes (in bathroom also). I just repeat here as a precaution, do not touch bare metal parts on those pipes.

It seems to measure something else then, I still think it's the magnetism of the radiator. There was an option to change the unit to milliGauss like your device shows, but all it seemed to do was change the decimal place; it said 7000-8000 mG instead of 750 mT.

Your radiator looks identical to mine. The phone sensor reading jumped to red when I placed it on the darker exposed metal part behind the temperature knob where there was no paint. That part was definitely exposed grounded metal (no zap either, but I understand and appreciate what you're trying to warn about and why). Standing 1-2cm in front of the two water pipes must be the real source, because it gives me a very subtle feeling of tingling, but no actual tingle. The radiator doesn't do that. The pipes are about 20-30cm away from a wall outlet that also has the grounded TV/Radio coax sockets. I'm starting to think the pipes radiate something directly into that outlet and then it makes its way into the rest of the electrical system due to how close they are to each other constantly, but I can't explain how the interference can reach beyond 4-5 meters.

Your issue is kinda same that i have…
Can you more discribe building you live in.
How many apartments are there,
how many entrance in the building if there is multiple entrance more than 2? (by entrance i dont mean back door)
What about lift is there or no?

It's a building wider than it is tall, 4 apartments per floor and there are 3 floors with no elevator. In this case I don't think any of that really matters though.


Anyway, to whoever finds this post and themselves in a similar soup in the future:
Don't spend a penny on anything before you have tried to simply move your PC, guitar, amp, headphones or whatever the device is, further away from any radiators and windows; try it in a room that is farthest away from the source. This has been the best improvement yet but ultimately its effect depends on how far you can distance yourself and your devices from it, but probably doesn't fix it all the way even then.

[cybepine]

It seems to measure something else then, I still think it's the magnetism of the radiator. There was an option to change the unit to milliGauss like your device shows, but all it seemed to do was change the decimal place; it said 7000-8000 mG instead of 750 mT.

Your radiator looks identical to mine. The phone sensor reading jumped to red when I placed it on the darker exposed metal part behind the temperature knob where there was no paint. That part was definitely exposed grounded metal (no zap either, but I understand and appreciate what you're trying to warn about and why). Standing 1-2cm in front of the two water pipes must be the real source, because it gives me a very subtle feeling of tingling, but no actual tingle. The radiator doesn't do that. The pipes are about 20-30cm away from a wall outlet that also has the grounded TV/Radio coax sockets. I'm starting to think the pipes radiate something directly into that outlet and then it makes its way into the rest of the electrical system due to how close they are to each other constantly, but I can't explain how the interference can reach beyond 4-5 meters.

Your phone measures exactly the same thing, AC magnetic fields, caused by AC currents. Just like I said earlier it is just not accurate. Most likely real value is below 50 mG (0.005 milliTesla). If you measure AC magnetic fields there is always AC current. In America they prefer to use milliGauss and in here Europe Tesla (micro or milIi) unit. I prefer the mG.

Look here what I found! (see the pictures) These piece of **** TN-C earthing systems...

I just bought the earth leakage clamp meter. It measures down to 0.1 milliamps. I have a different clamp meter but it does not measure this low.

There should be no current on the water pipes. This (88 mAmps) is a dangerous amount of current.

Now I have to call the electrician myself...

Anyway I hope you will be able to solve your problem somehow.

[Manmademan]

Your phone measures exactly the same thing, AC magnetic fields, caused by AC currents. Just like I said earlier it is just not accurate. Most likely real value is below 50 mG (0.005 milliTesla). If you measure AC magnetic fields there is always AC current. In America they prefer to use milliGauss and in here Europe Tesla (micro or milIi) unit. I prefer the mG.

Yeah, a lot of this simply goes over my head because I don't have a background in electronics or electricity; all these grounding and live-neutral terms I've mentioned here is something I have simply learned from trying a million things.

Look here what I found! (see the pictures) These piece of **** TN-C earthing systems...

I just bought the earth leakage clamp meter. It measures down to 0.1 milliamps. I have a different clamp meter but it does not measure this low.

There should be no current on the water pipes. This (88 mAmps) is a dangerous amount of current.

Now I have to call the electrician myself...

Anyway I hope you will be able to solve your problem somehow.

That doesn't sound good. It has been ages since it has happened but touching the radiator used to give me a small zap.
The metal body of a ceiling light fixture in my living room also used to give me a weird sensation instead of a zap, like my muscles were constricting or I started feeling slightly lightheaded. I think there was a low amount of current present on the metal, but that doesn't happen anymore either. Looking at the chart you posted, maybe somewhere around 80 milliamps could have been it.

I'm not sure what your situation is and if you're also having issues with poor audio quality, but if the stray current in your radiator is the culprit and getting it fixed solves an issue, feel free to share about it here.


With that said:

I luckily found the improvement for the worst part of this issue, and the improvement lasts:
Installing a missing ceiling light fixture to the ceiling in my kitchen. I moved into this apartment over 10 years ago and have never connected a ceiling light fixture to the live and neutral wires sticking out from the ceiling in the kitchen. I don't understand why or how this helps. A circuit is now complete? I can only guess.

The audio makes way more sense now. It feels like the audio has been "2D" instead of "3D" the whole time; like having one eye closed but you can still see, but you can't judge the depth and distance of things, or in this case positional sounds.
Now the audio sounds more like it is coming from a position on my screen instead from a general direction. For example: a pedestrian walks past my character in a GTA game and the footstep sounds originate from the location of the pedestrian's feet on my screen.
This agreement of audio and visual is crucial if you want to feel like you're almost in the environment of a movie or a game yourself, and it should be a basic and obvious thing too, but apparently not in this apartment.

But, the audio is still just ever so slightly unfocused because of the radiator.
Headphones plugged into phone and standing near the radiator still degrades the sound but the effect doesn't seem as strong, the audio keeps its structure.
When I stand still near the water pipes and radiator, it feels like the entire "360 sphere" of sound my headphones produce, is shifted towards inside my head, and the space between sounds or frequencies is reduced, making the audio unclear and cramped.

[cybepine]

I do not have any issues with my computers or with audio.

I just wanted to post these pictures for you and other people. So you know what to do and if these help in any way with your problem. (e.g. when the electrician comes).

This (my) issue is a health hazard, because it is in a wet room.

Good to hear that you fixed your problem partially.

But it seems to me that you may have some pretty big problems with your electrical system. You shouldn't have any issues with anything if everything is properly installed and serviced. In other words, no zaps or audio deterioration.

Also if everything in your house wiring is in good order, it should not have any effect. Even if you have installed ceiling light fixture or not.

[Manmademan]

I do not have any issues with my computers or with audio.

I just wanted to post these pictures for you and other people. So you know what to do and if these help in any way with your problem. (e.g. when the electrician comes).

This (my) issue is a health hazard, because it is in a wet room.

Good to hear that you fixed your problem partially.

But it seems to me that you may have some pretty big problems with your electrical system. You shouldn't have any issues with anything if everything is properly installed and serviced. In other words, no zaps or audio deterioration.

Also if everything in your house wiring is in good order, it should not have any effect. Even if you have installed ceiling light fixture or not.

I appreciate you going as far as taking pictures of your own radiator and helping out with ideas even if you don't have the same issue.

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. A ceiling light fixture being connected shouldn't make any difference to audio quality from a PC, realistically speaking. It just does though in this case, which means something in this apartment simply isn't right.
It could be the "grounded radiator which somebody in the building has used as a ground" problem you mentioned in the first place which has an effect on every wire coming from the ceiling or outlets in the walls in this apartment.. but it also travels by air and is strong enough to reach beyond 5 meters.
It's frustrating how the interference doesn't manifest itself as a background hiss or buzz like a typical ground loop issue would, but instead it's silent and there is no way of telling it's happening in the background. I also don't know what part of the headphones it's affecting.
What type of interference that travels by air, has an effect on the 20hz-20000hz audio frequency and makes audio "clarity" worse, and makes audio sound small/cramped, the closer you are to the source? Is it affecting the magnetic field of the speakers that moves the diaphragm? Is it the +-ground wires inside the headphone cord being overflooded by the interference?

Lastly, I thought the audio sounded the best in my bathroom when listening with headphones plugged into phone, but standing close to the breaker panel wall which is next to my apartment's front door (the bathroom is 2m away straight ahead in this location), the audio sounds the absolute clearest. As soon as I have line of sight to the living room even when I stand at the front door, the audio clarity drops, but not by a massive amount.

[AudAmerica]

I do not have any issues with my computers or with audio.

I just wanted to post these pictures for you and other people. So you know what to do and if these help in any way with your problem. (e.g. when the electrician comes).

This (my) issue is a health hazard, because it is in a wet room.

Good to hear that you fixed your problem partially.

But it seems to me that you may have some pretty big problems with your electrical system. You shouldn't have any issues with anything if everything is properly installed and serviced. In other words, no zaps or audio deterioration.

Also if everything in your house wiring is in good order, it should not have any effect. Even if you have installed ceiling light fixture or not.

I appreciate you going as far as taking pictures of your own radiator and helping out with ideas even if you don't have the same issue.

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. A ceiling light fixture being connected shouldn't make any difference to audio quality from a PC, realistically speaking. It just does though in this case, which means something in this apartment simply isn't right.
It could be the "grounded radiator which somebody in the building has used as a ground" problem you mentioned in the first place which has an effect on every wire coming from the ceiling or outlets in the walls in this apartment.. but it also travels by air and is strong enough to reach beyond 5 meters.
It's frustrating how the interference doesn't manifest itself as a background hiss or buzz like a typical ground loop issue would, but instead it's silent and there is no way of telling it's happening in the background. I also don't know what part of the headphones it's affecting.
What type of interference that travels by air, has an effect on the 20hz-20000hz audio frequency and makes audio "clarity" worse, and makes audio sound small/cramped, the closer you are to the source? Is it affecting the magnetic field of the speakers that moves the diaphragm? Is it the +-ground wires inside the headphone cord being overflooded by the interference?

Lastly, I thought the audio sounded the best in my bathroom when listening with headphones plugged into phone, but standing close to the breaker panel wall which is next to my apartment's front door (the bathroom is 2m away straight ahead in this location), the audio sounds the absolute clearest. As soon as I have line of sight to the living room even when I stand at the front door, the audio clarity drops, but not by a massive amount.

Bathrooms often have tin/aluminum foil in the walls, which may reduce the effects of EMI.

[AudAmerica]

I think this problem may not come from the earphones, because the earphone signal is still processed by the PCB, maybe there is some kind of EMI interfering with the phone

[Manmademan]

I think this problem may not come from the earphones, because the earphone signal is still processed by the PCB, maybe there is some kind of EMI interfering with the phone

It seems to affect both the phone and headphones. Changing the orientation of my DAC/Amp or moving its location, and slowly turning my head 360 degrees both do something to the clarity. I've since placed my DAC/Amp on the floor in front of my metal PC case which blocks the line of sight to the radiator and it has helped just a little. Since I moved my desk and PC farther away from the water pipes and radiator, I found the audio sounds the most "balanced" when I sit facing their direction. It's as if there is a constant mismatch of voltage between the left and right speakers or wires that results in the speakers not "matching" each other which makes the audio come out unfocused.. or the interference introducing too much crosstalk into the wires or speakers, I'm guessing.

This is a paragraph from Wikipedia about "stereo imaging" which is affected by crosstalk:

Stereo imaging refers to the aspect of sound recording and reproduction of stereophonic sound concerning the perceived spatial locations of the sound source(s), both laterally and in depth. An image is considered to be good if the location of the performers can be clearly identified; the image is considered to be poor if the location of the performers is difficult to locate. <- My issue.

[Manmademan]

Wow. Here is an update that has made a world of difference not only to the audio side of things but also my monitor's image quality.
This may also interest those who suffer from input latency related issues because I noticed something in that area too (I know input latency threads are more prevalent and talked about in this forum).

My computer setup is in my living room. Plugging extension cords/power strips to my living room's empty wall sockets makes a ridiculously good improvement to the clarity (and quality) of my audio, and vividness, motion smoothness and pixel clarity of my monitor.
The image is more vivid and things just pop out more on my screen. The biggest difference that I also notice now is actual depth in the image too which I had no idea my monitor was capable of displaying.. or I have lived in this apartment for too long and have gotten used to everything sounding and looking worse than what they actually could sound and look like.

I didn't expect that to happen at all, but I noticed the image depth thing right off the bat when I started going through the first 2-3 levels of Doom 1 every time I test my audio. And the audio too: the fact that it comes to me automatically now what the direction, position and distance of sound sources are, is telling that something happened for the better. I can almost visualize the sound's outlines around my head because of how clear and in focus the audio sounds now; it sounds like I am in the actual environment of the game and the enemies' sounds originate exactly from their position in the level on my monitor.. it's almost physical. That's how crazy of an improvement this is.

To make sure this wasn't a fluke, I have shut down and started up my PC several times, and it persists after days. In my head I instantly "realize" that it still works when I hear audio or play through a level in Doom and notice the depth in the image. There are many things I have done in the past which I thought helped but later realized they really didn't help in the end.

Now, what happens if I take out the extension cords? The audio is back to sounding almost hollow and flat which I was used to and thought it sounded good until I stumbled across this improvement. The image of my monitor no longer has the depth to it and lacks the pop, color and pixel clarity. There's nothing about it that I can easily put my finger on.. yet I can now notice that my monitor has also been lacking something this entire time.
Even the monitor, just like my headphone audio.. is able to show less of the same kind of "clarity" because of the interference.

This improvement lasts as long as I keep the extension cords plugged in to the wall sockets. The more extension cords I plug, the more it helps, so I have plugged an extension cord into every single wall outlet socket in my living room. This also applies to my kitchen's wall outlets. I could plug in anything else too, not just extension cords, but I felt that the effect wasn't as good.

The strange thing is that it takes a good 15 minutes to "settle". I can notice an immediate improvement in both audio and monitor image quality after turning on my PC, right after I have plugged in an extension cord, but I need to wait around that time for the effect to be at its strongest. I'm really curious to know what's happening behind the scenes. It's as if these extension cords are acting as cleansers.

[Slender]

Wow. Here is an update that has made a world of difference not only to the audio side of things but also my monitor's image quality.
This may also interest those who suffer from input latency related issues because I noticed something in that area too (I know input latency threads are more prevalent and talked about in this forum).

My computer setup is in my living room. Plugging extension cords/power strips to my living room's empty wall sockets makes a ridiculously good improvement to the clarity (and quality) of my audio, and vividness, motion smoothness and pixel clarity of my monitor.
The image is more vivid and things just pop out more on my screen. The biggest difference that I also notice now is actual depth in the image too which I had no idea my monitor was capable of displaying.. or I have lived in this apartment for too long and have gotten used to everything sounding and looking worse than what they actually could sound and look like.

I didn't expect that to happen at all, but I noticed the image depth thing right off the bat when I started going through the first 2-3 levels of Doom 1 every time I test my audio. And the audio too: the fact that it comes to me automatically now what the direction, position and distance of sound sources are, is telling that something happened for the better. I can almost visualize the sound's outlines around my head because of how clear and in focus the audio sounds now; it sounds like I am in the actual environment of the game and the enemies' sounds originate exactly from their position in the level on my monitor.. it's almost physical. That's how crazy of an improvement this is.

To make sure this wasn't a fluke, I have shut down and started up my PC several times, and it persists after days. In my head I instantly "realize" that it still works when I hear audio or play through a level in Doom and notice the depth in the image. There are many things I have done in the past which I thought helped but later realized they really didn't help in the end.

Now, what happens if I take out the extension cords? The audio is back to sounding almost hollow and flat which I was used to and thought it sounded good until I stumbled across this improvement. The image of my monitor no longer has the depth to it and lacks the pop, color and pixel clarity. There's nothing about it that I can easily put my finger on.. yet I can now notice that my monitor has also been lacking something this entire time.
Even the monitor, just like my headphone audio.. is able to show less of the same kind of "clarity" because of the interference.

This improvement lasts as long as I keep the extension cords plugged in to the wall sockets. The more extension cords I plug, the more it helps, so I have plugged an extension cord into every single wall outlet socket in my living room. This also applies to my kitchen's wall outlets. I could plug in anything else too, not just extension cords, but I felt that the effect wasn't as good.

The strange thing is that it takes a good 15 minutes to "settle". I can notice an immediate improvement in both audio and monitor image quality after turning on my PC, right after I have plugged in an extension cord, but I need to wait around that time for the effect to be at its strongest. I'm really curious to know what's happening behind the scenes. It's as if these extension cords are acting as cleansers.

how many extension cords you use?
Do you think that the length of the wire affects the noise dispersion, or the number of extension cords?
What brand of extension cords?
Maybe the socket you are connecting to is "correct"?