Blur Busters Forums

Inco^ wrote: ↑

05 Sep 2024, 15:50

I should receive the PG27AQDP in about 2 weeks (1440p 480Hz OLED), will let you know my feelings on how it compares to PG248QP (1080p 540Hz TN) for competitive FPS.

Oh please do, I went from 1440p 360Hz OLED to the PG248QP and was not impressed and went back to OLED lol

GFresha wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2024, 18:49

Initially with ULMB 2 on vs off I couldn't tell a huge difference to my OLED (I assume its because OLED motion clarity is already top notch) but then even on the PG248QP itself, turning ULMB on vs off didn't affect too much motion clarity, but again, I was testing on Valorant, so it may not be the best test for this type of comparison.

Use a test like www.testufo.com/map#pps=1920 to see major differences.

Don't forget to fix mouse microstutter weak link to make game mouselook as smooth as TestUFO! If testing in a game, use a mouse pollrate of minimum 2000Hz. You can now see visual jitter of 1000Hz when we're in these refresh rate stratospheres.

Try to migrate to "High DPI, low sensitivity" operations if you don't have any legacy reason to stay low DPI, e.g. 1600dpi minimum. Newer games are more high-DPI friendly (more accurate mouse math). Use the Windows mouse sensitivity setting to slow down your high-DPI turbo mouse pointer, without affecting your game muscle memory (unless you have really old games like World of Warcraft that gets affected by that)

Low blur technologies of all kinds (360Hz OLED, or ULMB2) really show weak links at 800dpi & 1000Hz mouse

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

05 Sep 2024, 21:51

GFresha wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2024, 18:49

Initially with ULMB 2 on vs off I couldn't tell a huge difference to my OLED (I assume its because OLED motion clarity is already top notch) but then even on the PG248QP itself, turning ULMB on vs off didn't affect too much motion clarity, but again, I was testing on Valorant, so it may not be the best test for this type of comparison.

Use a test like www.testufo.com/map#pps=1920 to see major differences.

Don't forget to fix mouse microstutter weak link to make game mouselook as smooth as TestUFO! If testing in a game, use a mouse pollrate of minimum 2000Hz. You can now see visual jitter of 1000Hz when we're in these refresh rate stratospheres.

Try to migrate to "High DPI, low sensitivity" operations if you don't have any legacy reason to stay low DPI, e.g. 1600dpi minimum. Newer games are more high-DPI friendly (more accurate mouse math). Use the Windows mouse sensitivity setting to slow down your high-DPI turbo mouse pointer, without affecting your game muscle memory (unless you have really old games like World of Warcraft that gets affected by that)

Low blur technologies of all kinds (360Hz OLED, or ULMB2) really show weak links at 800dpi & 1000Hz mouse

For the most part I did most of those tips, except the polling rate, my razer viper v2 pro is currently at 1000Hz max, but I put in the order for the hyperpoling wireless razer dongle that is supposed to get me up to 8000 Hz.

I already moved on to 3200 DPI to get ready to saturate that high poling rate, so DPI wise I was good for ULMB, but you think with the 8000 or 4000 polling rate is when I can actually feel ULMB vs non-ULMB?

Again I think the differences I am looking for won't be huge since I am testing it in first person games like Valorant so I might be better off with OLED for those games, maybe if it was rocket league or something like OW or apex legends with crazy things moving all around me, ULMB2 would show me a noticeable difference over non ULMB.

So far doing strobe rate = FPS = Hz, adjusting pulse width, and setting DPI to 3200 hasn't shown too much noticeable improvements, maybe the 8000 Hz dongle might, but I think that will also show improvements for the OLED too no?

GFresha wrote: ↑

05 Sep 2024, 22:08

I already moved on to 3200 DPI to get ready to saturate that high poling rate, so DPI wise I was good for ULMB, but you think with the 8000 or 4000 polling rate is when I can actually feel ULMB vs non-ULMB?

I can tell apart 1000 vs 2000 vs 4000 vs 8000
But it's harder to tell apart 2000 vs 8000 than it is to tell apart 1000 vs 2000.

I use 2000 because I get 90% of the benefit of >1000 poll rate, at 75% less mouse-thread CPU load. Even 2000 vs 8000 is more subtle than 1000 vs 2000. 4000-8000 can lower frame rate of many games due to CPU overload if the game has an inefficient mouse thread. Thusly, 2000 is a compromise.

You can use mouse profile switching, and use 4000-8000 in the friendly games, 2000 in almost everything else, and 1000 in problem games.

Also, not all systems will let you do 8000 Hz properly, many systems fail above ~2500Hz.

And yes, definitely makes a difference with ULMB2 during high-DPI operations.
Mouselook in real world FPS games feels more TestUFO-smooth at TestUFO-panning speeds.

This is 1000 Hz:


This is 8000 Hz:


The mouse jitter can coarsen your mouselook feel somewhat, making less less TestUFO-smooth.
There are tons of weak links:
- Old sensors
- Bad mouse pad
- Dirty mouse feet
- Bad drivers
- DPI (should be high, 1600+, even 3200+)
- Pollrate (should be 2000+ but not too high as to overload game)

Address all of them, and you get magic TestUFO-fluidity slow mouselooks in FPS that can help in tracking moving objects like airplanes or fast-moving vehicles.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

06 Sep 2024, 11:50

And yes, definitely makes a difference with ULMB2 during high-DPI operations.

The mouse jitter can coarsen your mouselook feel somewhat, making less less TestUFO-smooth.
There are tons of weak links:
- Old sensors
- Bad mouse pad
- Dirty mouse feet
- Bad drivers
- DPI (should be high, 1600+, even 3200+)
- Pollrate (should be 2000+ but not too high as to overload game)

Address all of them, and you get magic TestUFO-fluidity slow mouselooks in FPS that can help in tracking moving objects like airplanes or fast-moving vehicles.

Out of those, bad mouse pad is another! I am using a 5 year old QcK and it doesn't even feel like my mouse is on a mouse pad, but like its just gliding on my desk lol

Trying to get either the Vaxee PA or LGG Saturn Pro (Artisan zero is a bit too much on a mousepad)

Everything else should be in check, I still have the 540Hz ULMB2 monitor but its a secondary monitor for now and using the OLED as main driver, once I get the hyper-poling dongle and test 2000-8000Hz and also get a premium mouse pad, will go back to it and retest.


The other issue is a bit of an unfair test is I am going from 1440p OLED to the 1080p TN, and thats really throwing me off, 360Hz vs 540Hz ULMB2 seems not a significant comparison vs 1080p and 1440p, I think if I had that 1440p ULMB 2 360Hz monitor then it would have been a bit more fair comparison so then its not comparison clarity + resolution, but only clarity

Another thing I was wondering, the OLED im using has 0.2 MS response time, while that TN monitor, on Normal OD is 1.7 ms (not sure how much response time when its ULMB2), but I assume 1.7 MS vs 0.2 MS response time is not as significant of a difference as clarity with OLED vs strobing 540Hz/360Hz?

Also Chief while we on the topic, I know during strobing having refresh rate headroom = less crosstalk, on that PG248QP, I can overclock it to 540Hz and then ULMB2 at 500Hz, would that have any benefit in terms of crosstalk? Or that benefit of refresh rate headroom is when we are talking something like 360Hz strobing on a 540Hz monitor or a 240Hz strobing on a 360Hz monitor etc... Not 40Hz headroom right? Or it doesn't matter, as long as you have some sort of headroom then your golden? In all cases I can push 600 fps+ on Valorant so I can match FPS=Hz but I was curious about refresh rate headroom and crosstalk

GFresha wrote: ↑

06 Sep 2024, 13:49

Another thing I was wondering, the OLED im using has 0.2 MS response time, while that TN monitor, on Normal OD is 1.7 ms (not sure how much response time when its ULMB2), but I assume 1.7 MS vs 0.2 MS response time is not as significant of a difference as clarity with OLED vs strobing 540Hz/360Hz?-

GtG doesn't matter when strobing hides GtG in total darkness. GtG is just the cause of strobe crosstalk, but if GtG is fast enough to be completely hidden between strobe flashes, GtG becomes irrelevant. (But usually it's not...except on a few displays like Meta Quest, Apple Vision Pro, or a well-calibrated ViewSonic XG2431, if you're super-anal on strobe crosstalk). 1.7ms will produce lots of strobe crosstalk for 360Hz strobing, though, but you may not see it unless motion speeds are fast enough.
__

But for non-strobed LCD vs OLED...

...Even 1.7ms is surprisingly significant when you're not using strobing. 1.7ms turns 360Hz LCD down to as blurry as a 240Hz OLED.

1.7ms is more than 50% of a 360Hz refreshttime, adding extra motion blur.

It's why OLED is so much clearer looking for strobeless motion blur reduction.

1.7ms is like adding yet another 1/588sec camera shutter blur to your motion (during eye tracking fast motion). It's not that clear cut because GtG is a curve and not a delayed squarewave. (MPRT behaves more squarewave with GtG=0)

At 3000 pixel/sec mouse movement, that adds 5 more pixels of blurring/ghosting (above 10% transparency, from the GtG10-90 cutoff) from the math of 3000 * 0.0017 = 5 pixels extra blur due to slow GtG!

___

Pros of LCD strobe: Less motion blur (strobed mode), darker, dimmer, but you may get crosstalk.
Pros of 540Hz in LCD: Possibly lower latency when not strobed (unverified)
Pros of 360Hz in OLED: Low blur (less than unstrobed 540Hz), full brightness, full color, still deliciously low latency

I would wager to guess that unstrobed, the 540Hz LCD may have a slight edge. But with strobing adding more lag than the refreshtime latency differential of 360-vs-540, it's possible 360Hz OLED is lower lag than *strobing* a 540Hz LCD.

If you want low blur AND low lag /simultaneously/, the edge goes to the 1440p 360Hz for me.

But it's a tough call, if you're primarily about esports. It will somewhat depend on the framerate firehose that the game can spew at the display.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

06 Sep 2024, 14:33

Pros of 540Hz in LCD: Possibly lower latency when not strobed (unverified)

I would wager to guess that unstrobed, the 540Hz LCD may have a slight edge. But with strobing adding more lag than the refreshtime latency differential of 360-vs-540, it's possible 360Hz OLED is lower lag than *strobing* a 540Hz LCD.

If you want low blur AND low lag /simultaneously/, the edge goes to the 1440p 360Hz for me.

But it's a tough call, if you're primarily about esports. It will somewhat depend on the framerate firehose that the game can spew at the display.

So in regards to strobing, by lag you mean input lag? If so it seems the rtings review of the PG248QP shows 1.8 ms with BFI on vs off at max Hz, but it seems strobing at 500 Hz is 0.5 ms lag

GFresha wrote: ↑

05 Sep 2024, 21:05

Inco^ wrote: ↑

05 Sep 2024, 15:50

I should receive the PG27AQDP in about 2 weeks (1440p 480Hz OLED), will let you know my feelings on how it compares to PG248QP (1080p 540Hz TN) for competitive FPS.

Oh please do, I went from 1440p 360Hz OLED to the PG248QP and was not impressed and went back to OLED lol

Hi randomly stumbled across this post, I just upgraded from the PG248QP to PG27AQDP myself and wanted to offer my experience.

I ran gsync (no vsync) without ulmb 2 on the TN panel and with identical settings the 480hz OLED actually feels smoother in CS2. Not too significant of a difference but definitely noticeable. I was worried about the downgrade from 400 nits to 275 nits but my eyes quickly got used to it. Competitively I'd imagine it's not that much of an advantage but it's definitely an upgrade in terms of comfort.

Going on a tangent in recent years there's been a shift in the tour de france towards comfort vs absolute aerodynamic gains on bike frame geometries. I think it's a very similar parallel.

yee wrote: ↑

08 Sep 2024, 03:43

I was worried about the downgrade from 400 nits to 275 nits but my eyes quickly got used to it.

You were using 100% brightness before?

RealNC wrote: ↑

08 Sep 2024, 08:10

You were using 100% brightness before?

Its common with those who play comp games to crank it all the way up