Long-term investigation of unstable input, affected by electrical and network conditions

[fa1kk]

Great post! You've literally tried everything. Honestly, there might not be a solution to this issue—it's highly likely just dirty power coming from the grid. By the way, have you tried making the neutral-to-ground bond impedance as low as possible?

I did some tests with several grounding configurations, including TN-C, TN-C-S (local PEN split), and a TT system with a completely separate outlet for the PC. I always ended up going back to the TT setup because it gave me the best results, while TN-C and TN-C-S consistently produced more desync.

I haven't specifically measured the N-PE bond impedance, so I can't say whether it was particularly low or high during those experiments. That's something I haven't been able to check yet because I haven't found a specialist with the proper equipment.

My electric company says the PEN grounding resistance at the transformer is around 4.5 Ohms, but I've never seen any documentation confirming it or witnessed the measurement myself.

[tzatarnaitz]

Hello, I'm lurker for some time on this forum, I've tried a lot of things too, I find myself in your post. but I would like to understand something, I've tried countless locations, some were good, some were bad, but why were the good locations 'good' only for 7/8 days? i don't get it, btw new location = new computer and monitor and peripherals? i never believed in body input lag, but tell me again, why when i leave computer for 5 or 10 mins and after that the game becomes smooth again? for short period of time?

[komarek]

What cross-section are the main L1, L2, L3, and PEN conductors in the distribution board?

Also, could you tell me whether the situation gets better late at night, around 1–2 a.m.? If it does, I have a permanent solution for you because I've been through the exact same

[issawm]

“ Over the years, the same pattern has happened on multiple different PCs, including brand-new ones: the systems are fully capable of feeling normal at first, proving the hardware can provide the mouse feel you’re looking for. Then, after Windows updates or related software changes, the mouse begins to feel floaty again. Because this has repeated across multiple systems, it’s unlikely to be bad hardware or bad luck. The more likely explanation is that a software, driver, firmware, or Windows configuration change is consistently altering how the system behaves after setup. The goal is to identify the specific change that happens between the system feeling normal and it becoming floaty.”

I’ve spent $500 on ChatGPT over the course of 3 years. Yet no leads or anything remotely close and this is all I got in the end..

[fa1kk]

“ Over the years, the same pattern has happened on multiple different PCs, including brand-new ones: the systems are fully capable of feeling normal at first, proving the hardware can provide the mouse feel you’re looking for. Then, after Windows updates or related software changes, the mouse begins to feel floaty again. Because this has repeated across multiple systems, it’s unlikely to be bad hardware or bad luck. The more likely explanation is that a software, driver, firmware, or Windows configuration change is consistently altering how the system behaves after setup. The goal is to identify the specific change that happens between the system feeling normal and it becoming floaty.”

I’ve spent $500 on ChatGPT over the course of 3 years. Yet no leads or anything remotely close and this is all I got in the end..

I have a different perspective on how software, drivers, and firmware can affect latency and responsiveness. They absolutely can. Different drivers and software can all change how a game feels.

In the same Windows, my game can change from "bad" to "worse" without a single software update, reboot, or driver change. It changes within seconds while the PC is running, and not a single reboot or CMOS reset can help; a full reset of the OC never helped either.

More importantly, the monitor itself changes. Motion clarity, perceived blur, image sharpness, and brightness all change together with the mouse feel.

After years of testing, I don't see evidence that it is the root cause. At most, software seems capable of amplifying or reducing an already existing condition rather than creating it.

TLDR: I can do whatever I want with the system, but if I have a random improvement on the monitor and mouse, no matter what I do, it will be there.

[Asesino34]

Have you tried using an SFP network card with a fiber optic media converter? I didn't know this technology existed until Slender mentioned it in a comment some time ago. Unfortunately, there aren't really any videos showing what it's like to game on a PC using this setup, except for one YouTuber, Sab3lo. He lists an SFP network card in his PC specs, and his gameplay is just massacre after massacre.

[fa1kk]

Have you tried using an SFP network card with a fiber optic media converter? I didn't know this technology existed until Slender mentioned it in a comment some time ago. Unfortunately, there aren't really any videos showing what it's like to game on a PC using this setup, except for one YouTuber, Sab3lo. He lists an SFP network card in his PC specs, and his gameplay is just massacre after massacre.

I haven't tested an SFP network card personally, so I can't say whether it makes any difference or not. One of the people in our group did try it, and, according to him, it actually made things worse rather than better.

Personally, I don't expect it to address the root cause. My house already has a pure fiber connection right up to the ONU, with only about 25 cm of Cat5e between the ONU and either my PC or router. Disconnecting the Ethernet cable completely doesn't change the offline symptoms (mouse feel and monitor behavior), so replacing that last short copper segment with SFP doesn't seem like something that would explain what I'm observing.

That doesn't mean SFP cannot affect networking in some setups. I just don't see enough evidence to justify chasing that path before understanding why the offline behavior changes in exactly the same way.

In roughly 7 out of 10 cases, whenever the monitor and mouse improve, the online experience also improves almost immediately. I've only had a few cases where the monitor and mouse felt great while the online experience was still terrible, and in those cases changing the network route made a massive difference. That tells me there are likely two separate problems: one affecting the offline state (monitor/mouse), and another affecting online synchronization. I don't think the last 25 cm of Ethernet cable between the ONU and the PC is the limiting factor.

[Terrykk]

“ Over the years, the same pattern has happened on multiple different PCs, including brand-new ones: the systems are fully capable of feeling normal at first, proving the hardware can provide the mouse feel you’re looking for. Then, after Windows updates or related software changes, the mouse begins to feel floaty again. Because this has repeated across multiple systems, it’s unlikely to be bad hardware or bad luck. The more likely explanation is that a software, driver, firmware, or Windows configuration change is consistently altering how the system behaves after setup. The goal is to identify the specific change that happens between the system feeling normal and it becoming floaty.”

I’ve spent $500 on ChatGPT over the course of 3 years. Yet no leads or anything remotely close and this is all I got in the end..

I have a different perspective on how software, drivers, and firmware can affect latency and responsiveness. They absolutely can. Different drivers and software can all change how a game feels.

In the same Windows, my game can change from "bad" to "worse" without a single software update, reboot, or driver change. It changes within seconds while the PC is running, and not a single reboot or CMOS reset can help; a full reset of the OC never helped either.

More importantly, the monitor itself changes. Motion clarity, perceived blur, image sharpness, and brightness all change together with the mouse feel.

After years of testing, I don't see evidence that it is the root cause. At most, software seems capable of amplifying or reducing an already existing condition rather than creating it.

TLDR: I can do whatever I want with the system, but if I have a random improvement on the monitor and mouse, no matter what I do, it will be there.

This is so true, hence why I have given up on tinkering with bios and the OS altogether for a while now.

Nowadays I run completely stock and don’t bother with anything, sometimes even run my ram at JEDEC speeds for weeks until i can be bothered changing it. As long as I make sure my system is stable (no crashes, BSOD, driver incompatibility issues, etc) I observe that nothing I do ever influences my system positively and/or permanently.

Like you said even during the same session or at random hours during the day, motion clarity is great, monitor looks brighter, textures aren’t degraded, character model outlines and textures become visible and clear.

This inexplicable issue comes and goes, and happens whether my system is optimized (6000CL28 Hynix-A die manual OC’d profile which passed 8hrs of kharu and memtest, undervolted 9800x3d -20 all cores with a PBO OC, 4080Super) or completely stock.

The bottom line is that; it doesn’t matter how much I go out of my way to push my hardware or software side to its absolute limits, the gains and extra FPS/lower latency absolutely pale in comparison to when my system and peripherals magically decide to work properly one random day or night. Having experienced this unpredictable change, the difference between stock and optimized becomes redundant, almost a waste of time even.

[fa1kk]

“ Over the years, the same pattern has happened on multiple different PCs, including brand-new ones: the systems are fully capable of feeling normal at first, proving the hardware can provide the mouse feel you’re looking for. Then, after Windows updates or related software changes, the mouse begins to feel floaty again. Because this has repeated across multiple systems, it’s unlikely to be bad hardware or bad luck. The more likely explanation is that a software, driver, firmware, or Windows configuration change is consistently altering how the system behaves after setup. The goal is to identify the specific change that happens between the system feeling normal and it becoming floaty.”

I’ve spent $500 on ChatGPT over the course of 3 years. Yet no leads or anything remotely close and this is all I got in the end..

I have a different perspective on how software, drivers, and firmware can affect latency and responsiveness. They absolutely can. Different drivers and software can all change how a game feels.

In the same Windows, my game can change from "bad" to "worse" without a single software update, reboot, or driver change. It changes within seconds while the PC is running, and not a single reboot or CMOS reset can help; a full reset of the OC never helped either.

More importantly, the monitor itself changes. Motion clarity, perceived blur, image sharpness, and brightness all change together with the mouse feel.

After years of testing, I don't see evidence that it is the root cause. At most, software seems capable of amplifying or reducing an already existing condition rather than creating it.

TLDR: I can do whatever I want with the system, but if I have a random improvement on the monitor and mouse, no matter what I do, it will be there.

This is so true, hence why I have given up on tinkering with bios and the OS altogether for a while now.

Nowadays I run completely stock and don’t bother with anything, sometimes even run my ram at JEDEC speeds for weeks until i can be bothered changing it. As long as I make sure my system is stable (no crashes, BSOD, driver incompatibility issues, etc) I observe that nothing I do ever influences my system positively and/or permanently.

Like you said even during the same session or at random hours during the day, motion clarity is great, monitor looks brighter, textures aren’t degraded, character model outlines and textures become visible and clear.

This inexplicable issue comes and goes, and happens whether my system is optimized (6000CL28 Hynix-A die manual OC’d profile which passed 8hrs of kharu and memtest, undervolted 9800x3d -20 all cores with a PBO OC, 4080Super) or completely stock.

The bottom line is that; it doesn’t matter how much I go out of my way to push my hardware or software side to its absolute limits, the gains and extra FPS/lower latency absolutely pale in comparison to when my system and peripherals magically decide to work properly one random day or night. Having experienced this unpredictable change, the difference between stock and optimized becomes redundant, almost a waste of time even.

I'm not claiming we all have the same problem. Similar symptoms can have different causes.

What I'd really appreciate is people trying to find flaws in my investigation or suggesting tests I haven't considered yet.

[kimchi man]

I am experiencing exactly the same symptoms as the original poster. I have also concluded that the cause is neither hardware nor software, but rather an electrical issue.

I believe that most players are experiencing this problem. They simply have never experienced a truly normal environment, so they do not realize that their setup is abnormal and mistakenly assume that it is working as intended.

I have traveled to many different regions across my country and visited internet cafés (PC cafés) to investigate this issue. I have tested more than 30 locations, and only two of them felt normal.

The problem was present even in the metropolitan areas with excellent infrastructure. It also appeared in newly built facilities with modern equipment.

Interestingly, the places without the issue were located in smaller cities, were relatively old, and did not even have particularly high-end equipment.

I also found that one PC café had no issue at all, while another café only about 100 meters away suffered from it. This suggests that there is probably nothing wrong with the electricity coming from the power plant, through the transformer, and into the building itself. It seems more likely that the problem begins during the distribution of electricity inside the building.

I currently suspect radio-frequency interference or EMI. The reason is that when I watch YouTube videos on my smartphone in the same room as my computer, the video quality appears slightly degraded, just like when I use my PC. The image loses some depth and sharpness.

However, when I watch the same YouTube videos in my bathroom, the videos surprisingly look clearer and smoother, with noticeably better depth and image quality.

The only thing that changed was my location.