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Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 05 May 2020, 11:22
by PixelDuck87
forii wrote:
05 May 2020, 05:05
RLCScontender wrote:
05 May 2020, 04:41
Being forced to use 60 OD at optimal refresh isn't really pushing what the manufacturer intend the monitor to do. So yup, i too would return that monitor if 80 OD showed any form of ghosting(it's not suppoesd to show ghosting at 2% error rate)

PS. i stand corrected. No need to make a video about it.

if you want to review monitors, i suggest you get yourself an oscilloscope.

i'm thinking about getting the omen x25f. Is that would you recommend that is the top eschelon of TNs?
It was only subjective opinion which everyone can see on own eyes. That is why I added a note that for more info ppl can check ur posts. :)

Omen x25f is very similar to acer nitro XF252QX in motion blur. Omen slighty better but it's not game changer lol

On the left Acer on the right Omen:
phpBB [video]



x25f has better black color uniformity but has bad contrast. It doesnt have anti motion blur reduction. You can't even save profiles in OSD - which is really bad for me.
If I had to choose I would choose XF252QX, esspecialy its quite cheap and have everything you need, except horible black color uniformity, but might be a little fixed with shadow/black boost. And remember its quite hard to get used to TN due to bad colors, but motion clarity and blur is perfect on the Omen or Acer.
Overall its one of the top budget 240hz TN (gaming only) monitor, personally I would not pay anything more because the difference is not worth.
Can you please make a video like this with MAG?

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 05 May 2020, 18:02
by Chief Blur Buster
Nice side-by-side pursuit camera "technique" -- this is better than some of the earlier attempts -- going from one screen to the next -- to compare relative differences.

One bit of a nit:
-- Aside from the bluish tint, the TN viewing angles rears itself in making the middle and bottom row background color almost the same because the smartphone is closer to the screen than the human head is. However, the video pursuit technique is otherwise valid and I see enough tickmarks to correctly analyze the images.
-- YouTube re-compression is a bit nasty though, makes it harder to see difference between the monitors, I bet the differences is more visible in the original file. Possibly 4K 60fps video will help, or a higher-bitrate 1080p mode

In the future I'd use landscape smartphone to make it easier to analyze (and easier to pause between two monitors, to compare same-photo two-monitor pursuit!). And practice pursuiting a little more square along the screen surface.

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 05 May 2020, 20:10
by masneb
RLCS really needs to chill out with his drum beating this comes across as a extremely heavy handed marketing campaign. Literally allowing no one an opinion that differs from his own and will just crap talk you until you accept his. It's not conducive to a environment where people are trying to post their own subjective takes on monitors, which are also valid.

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 05 May 2020, 20:23
by xxxtinct
PixelDuck87 wrote:
05 May 2020, 11:22
forii wrote:
05 May 2020, 05:05
RLCScontender wrote:
05 May 2020, 04:41
Being forced to use 60 OD at optimal refresh isn't really pushing what the manufacturer intend the monitor to do. So yup, i too would return that monitor if 80 OD showed any form of ghosting(it's not suppoesd to show ghosting at 2% error rate)

PS. i stand corrected. No need to make a video about it.

if you want to review monitors, i suggest you get yourself an oscilloscope.

i'm thinking about getting the omen x25f. Is that would you recommend that is the top eschelon of TNs?
It was only subjective opinion which everyone can see on own eyes. That is why I added a note that for more info ppl can check ur posts. :)

Omen x25f is very similar to acer nitro XF252QX in motion blur. Omen slighty better but it's not game changer lol

On the left Acer on the right Omen:
phpBB [video]



x25f has better black color uniformity but has bad contrast. It doesnt have anti motion blur reduction. You can't even save profiles in OSD - which is really bad for me.
If I had to choose I would choose XF252QX, esspecialy its quite cheap and have everything you need, except horible black color uniformity, but might be a little fixed with shadow/black boost. And remember its quite hard to get used to TN due to bad colors, but motion clarity and blur is perfect on the Omen or Acer.
Overall its one of the top budget 240hz TN (gaming only) monitor, personally I would not pay anything more because the difference is not worth.
Can you please make a video like this with MAG?
I'll be receiving mine in the next two days and will be uploading a video in my own thread, since nobody else seems wiling to for whatever reason. Keep your eyes peeled, it's coming!

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 06 May 2020, 01:16
by 1000WATT
forii wrote:
05 May 2020, 05:05
x25f has better black color uniformity but has bad contrast.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
05 May 2020, 18:02
However, the video pursuit technique is otherwise valid and I see enough tickmarks to correctly analyze the images.
When trying to popularize this method, we are forced to accept the results of work from people without any rules. Giving only recommendations. It is sometimes difficult to correctly analyze the image. Especially when shooting on a camera with digital noise reduction.
Chief I would like to hear your analysis and compare it with mine.
acer color channels enhanced this gave a bit of contrast but led to visible color artifacts (curved vertical line) and a yellow ghost. These artifacts will not be fixed by any option od 0-255. Only reducing the color channels will correct the situation.
Hp has a slightly less aggressive OD.
If you take from 0-255 where acer has od100, I would say hp od85-90.
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masneb wrote:
05 May 2020, 20:10
RLCS really needs to chill out with his drum beating this comes across as a extremely heavy handed marketing campaign. Literally allowing no one an opinion that differs from his own and will just crap talk you until you accept his. It's not conducive to a environment where people are trying to post their own subjective takes on monitors, which are also valid.
It happens to each of us, a man struggles to convince others of something. Although in fact, he is trying to convince himself. :)

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 06 May 2020, 04:55
by RLCSContender*
forii wrote:
04 May 2020, 12:40
. This might be very universal monitor. But overall I think i still will accept the fact that is hard to beat the motion clarity of the TN monitors, so if u are competive or want a monitor only for gaming the benq zowie XL2546s or any other 240hz tN like mine which i bought for tests = Acer Nitro XF252QX, would be slighty better for fast fps shooters.

The more informations of this monitor you can find in posts by RLCScontender.
240hz alone beats the motion clarity advantage of TN since it makes it redundat and counter productive at that pint.

There are ZERO advantages a TN has over the fastest 240hz IPS monitors. because what the TN is known for(response times) become an oxymoron at these refresh rates and framerates.

basically you are wasting your money by having two monitors(one of which is strictly gaming) and the other (are general activities). The MSI fullfills both/ TN is not necessary

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 06 May 2020, 05:00
by RLCSContender*
masneb wrote:
05 May 2020, 20:10
RLCS really needs to chill out with his drum beating this comes across as a extremely heavy handed marketing campaign. Literally allowing no one an opinion that differs from his own and will just crap talk you until you accept his. It's not conducive to a environment where people are trying to post their own subjective takes on monitors, which are also valid.
Except i RARELY post opinions. There may have been comments that i'm guilty of such as occasionall making blanket statements or being fact checked from time to time, but generally speaking i'm fairly accurate in majority of my posts and i usually back it up with videos or photos.

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 06 May 2020, 11:58
by Chief Blur Buster
1000WATT wrote:
06 May 2020, 01:16
It is sometimes difficult to correctly analyze the image. Especially when shooting on a camera with digital noise reduction.
Definitely, that's a problem -- In addition to cameras, YouTube also automatically applies noise reduction when recompressing -- noise reduction makes it easier to compress better. Original video files from a higher quality video camera is often preferred.

Hobby pursuits are not problem free, but often reveal more information than the typical hobby static-photographs, so I still encourage them, although I have to temper debates about their accuracy. Sometimes an accurately tracked photo is of limited analysis indeed, due to auto-color behaviors, auto-noise behavior, and color equalization behaviors all occuring at the same time. A manual-adjustment camera app can help to an extent though.

It's certainly true that hobby pursuits are always woefully imperfect, and always an improveable manoever. As it gets used more often, there are often some issues/limitations. Just like comparing two static photos posted on a forum, even if there's more analyzeable content in an accurately-tracked pursuit camera photo of good color balance / exposure.
1000WATT wrote:
06 May 2020, 01:16
masneb wrote:
05 May 2020, 20:10
RLCS really needs to chill out with his drum beating this comes across as a extremely heavy handed marketing campaign. Literally allowing no one an opinion that differs from his own and will just crap talk you until you accept his. It's not conducive to a environment where people are trying to post their own subjective takes on monitors, which are also valid.
It happens to each of us, a man struggles to convince others of something. Although in fact, he is trying to convince himself. :)
Everyone is entitled to opinions. And followers and detractors, alas. But yes, the forum moderating work is to prevent this forum from becoming a twitter-style cesspool.

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 06 May 2020, 12:00
by Chief Blur Buster
You have two contradictory posts.
RLCScontender wrote:
06 May 2020, 04:55
There are ZERO advantages a TN has over the fastest 240hz IPS monitors. because what the TN is known for(response times) become an oxymoron at these refresh rates and framerates.
Disagree. While the TN-vs-IPS venn diagram now easily overlaps -- and I am a fan of 240Hz IPS panels -- there's many TN advantages that remain.
RLCScontender wrote:
06 May 2020, 05:00
Except i RARELY post opinions. There may have been comments that i'm guilty of such as occasionall making blanket statements or being fact checked from time to time, but generally speaking i'm fairly accurate in majority of my posts and i usually back it up with videos or photos.
However, around here, bashing TN to the extent I'm seeing here is not something Blur Busters wants to see (it's even "accidentally dishonest" even if good intentions). It neglects to mention many of the things I've mentioned in many earlier posts. You've already been repeatedly warned about the need to respect TN. As much as a 240Hz IPS fan I may be, I have respect for the nuances of TN.

OLED is theoretically superior to both TN and IPS, but there are still OLED quirks/disadvantages too. And compare to plasma? CRT? DLP? They all have their unique quirks, pros, and cons.

On Blur Busters, I take big issue about avoiding escalations of TN-vs-IPS holy wars, intentional or unintentional or otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the evangelism-intensity is nearly what is deemed (in Blur Busters opinion) to be holy-war levels, so I'd like to see that tone down. Big issue enough that I may begin moving posts like "zero advantages of TN versus IPS" type posts to the Off Topic Lounge.

Yes, we love to see posts with great data and great test results. Sure, show that IPS monitor X is superior in certain traits than TN monitor Y. But to say a universal catchall is discouraged, given the complex nuances that creates different preferences for IPS-feel vs TN-feel (vs CRT vs plasma vs OLED). TN and IPS is sufficiently different enough that "Attribute X of this TN panel is superior to that IPS panel, according to the test data I've posted here.", while simultaneously "Attribute Y of this IPS panel is superior to this TN panel, according to the test data I've posted here". Those are fair conclusions. But simple things like sample sizes, user preferences, even room temperature differences, overdrive settings availabilty, sensitivity to artifacts (e.g. preferring more motion blur but less coronas), GtG curve shapes, and dozens other quirky factors, can tip IPS-vs-TN scales, etc. It's so big a venn diagram that it's unknowable and does not deserve a blanket "zero advantages of TN versus IPS". That's nonsense. Even if you buy hundreds of thousands of monitors of all factory runs of all models of monitors, became a Ph.D in all the needed areas (including how surprisingly big double-digit-percentage population of human vision differences -- no two human see perfectly identically) and was able to test in all situations (bright and dark room, hot and cold room, bright and dark games, high and low frame rate games, etc). Reviewers don't even test to that depth! Generalities can be made, but we don't like to see blanket holy-war-instigating conclusions here.

Sure, you've seen me be enthusaic about the new fast IPS panels. But Blur Busters policy is to not bash TN (And that's not even because of any profit motive at all!). It's based off plain honesty and science. One can be pro-IPS without bashing TN, and vice versa. You see many do. That's perfectly OK too. Find ways to write conclusions without even mentioning the other panel technology (and if you do, cherrypick items only in a non-blanket manner). That's how many professional monitor reviewers do it.

Re: My subjective opinion/review about MSI MAG251RX. (Top1 240Hz IPS for sure)

Posted: 06 May 2020, 12:30
by pnts
I have never used an IPS panel before but this one seems interesting. I don't really care about viewing angles but are the colors that much better on the MSI MAG251RX compared to the Acer Nitro XF252QX?