Blur Busters Forums

Oh, I'm so glad I came to look here for this! I put down $100 for one of these monitors, but if it's going to have the slow red phosphor issue I will definitely cancel.

I actually came to see if there was any possibility that the Spectrum would acquire one of the coveted Blur Busters Approved certifications. (Congratulations on that by the way!) I assume it's likely that it will if they reformulated the phosphor, and that it won't otherwise?

Thanks once more for all your hard work, Chief! (*'▽')

So EVE just received their prototype panels, which is great news. However, in the thread with the update, Lore_Wonder, an EVE community manager, confirmed that the Spectrum will be using KSF LEDs for their panels, which I'm assuming is the panel with the slow red phosphor issue described here: https://blurbusters.com/beautiful-red-p ... ion-badly/

Because KSF LED made Nano IPS panels Nano IPS by providing a wider than normal color space (98% DCI-P3), Spectrum will use KSF LED backlight as all LG Nano IPS panels do. However, we will work to minimize the red phosphor issue to offer the best strobing experience of which Spectrum is capable.

Does anyone who has knowledge on monitors/strobing have an ideas on how this red phosphor issue could be mitigated? I'm sure EVE will do the best they can to mitigate the issue, since they definitely seem to really care about making this monitor as good as possible, but I don't know if it's even possible to mitigate this issue to the point that it's unnoticeable (or barely noticeable) to the human eye, only because I have very little idea of how this technology works.

There's no problem with KSF LED if you don't use strobing.

On a relative basis, I find KSF LEDs less distracting than plasma yellow ghosting, but more distracting than CRT faint green ghosting.

It's not as bad as a terrible-strobe-crosstalk monitor, but it degrades strobe quality enough that Blur Busters has already failed Blur Busters Approved tests more than one manufacturer because of the slow KSF red phosphor.

It will be up to you if the colors quality outweigh the addition of the slight red/cyan fringing artifacts during fast motion of bright white imagery. I've seen way worse on many impulsed display technologies. In lower-brightness scenery, it can veer into unnoticeable levels.

Red slowness on KSF has to speed up eventually, but it may be within tolerable boundaries for many depending on how picky you are.

Bad news

240+ Hz is for people that its main goal is speed, and image quality the best available without lose speed. Strobing is the best way to have LCD motion smoothness, so 240+Hz + KSF is one error. No matter how they try hide it. Sadly, these first Eve monitors not have 100% speed priority. They choice color precision, and reduce strobing quality.

Phosphor decay time is physics, i can't imagine how Eve can hide it... in CRT is the same issue, black background and white object in motion, long trail. The only way to reduce trail is manufacture CRT with short decay phosphor.

So is not a thing that can do Eve directly, they need LG panel manufacturer make a variation of the panel. Hope they do it, or in future launch 360Hz monitor using IPS panels from AUOptronics, without KSF.

AddictFPS wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2020, 07:21

They choice color precision, and reduce strobing quality.

it's not like they can choice, it's that there isn't any other panel manufacturer selling what you want

Seems that LG is not the only that is doing it:

https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/blog/au-op ... -dec-2019/

AU Optronics 32" flat IPS(AHVA) QHD 240Hz HDR600, and 27" HDR400

Not know who announce first its panel, maybe when Eve was looking for, only LG are available. Or both, and choice color Vs speed, this is my doubt.

But now Eve QHD 240Hz IPS Project is done, can't change panel manufacturer in this stage of development. It would have to be a second IPS QHD 240Hz model. The only way to fix the current project seems panel variation without KSF. But this would delay launch date ?

Would be great if Eve can talk with LG about this issue before mass production.

Sheer refresh rate will eventually make strobing obsolete. At that point, the phosphor would no longer matter.

Mind you, it will be a while before 1000Hz arrives though.

The good news is 60 Hz single strobe will be supported from what I've confirmed privately. That was a request from me.

To my eyes, the KSF phosphor puts it in the "average" category -- far better than the worst strobing I've seen, but worse than the best strobing I've seen. If you can tolerate plasma ghosting artifacts (yellow ghosts), you can tolerate KSF ghosting artifacts. (red/cyan ghosts in fast-motion POV downhill video).

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

24 Aug 2020, 14:52

The good news is 60 Hz single strobe will be supported from what I've confirmed privately. That was a request from me.

That's fantastic news! I'm guessing that makes this the first 4K monitor to officially support 60hz strobing then? That will be great for console games/ports, especially in 4K and with 600 nits of brightness to work with (strobing will probably cut the brightness down a bit if it's like my xl2420z, but given that it seems like most monitors average 300-400 nits from what I hear, that extra headroom is bound to make a difference). Regardless, I'm super happy about this, and will likely keep my preorder for this alone, as this feature was very high on my priority list.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

24 Aug 2020, 14:52

To my eyes, the KSF phosphor puts it in the "average" category -- far better than the worst strobing I've seen, but worse than the best strobing I've seen. If you can tolerate plasma ghosting artifacts (yellow ghosts), you can tolerate KSF ghosting artifacts. (red/cyan ghosts in fast-motion POV downhill video).

I see. I've never had a plasma TV before, so I'll still have to see how much I can deal with the artifacts. It doesn't seem terribly bad from this video though, and the vibrancy of the screen could potentially make up for that if the reviews of the lg 27GN950 apply to this monitor (they use the same panel). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbo6JA_3kLk

Squeakychu wrote: ↑

24 Aug 2020, 17:48

That's fantastic news! I'm guessing that makes this the first 4K monitor to officially support 60hz strobing then?

Desktop monitor, yep.

For TVs, the LG/Sony screens have a 60Hz single strobe option on many models. (I think Vizio too, not 100% sure). RTINGS.com already tests which monitors supports 60Hz single strobe, and raises review scores of displays that support 60Hz single-strobe.

The LG C9 and CX OLEDs have a 60Hz single strobe option, but the CX OLED version is even better with a lower MPRT (75% motion blur reduction at about ~4ms MPRT) for 1080p 60Hz and 4K 60Hz.

The good news is I have convinced another vmanufacturer (I can't say yet due to NDA) to add single-strobe support to future screens. So 2 manufactures with single-strobe 60Hz without need for software-based BFI.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

24 Aug 2020, 14:52

At that point, the phosphor would no longer matter.

I have doubt about this, because if KSF phosphor decay time is longer than 1ms scanout, if there are black background and red object panning fast, smells red trail, comet effect.

The good news is 60 Hz single strobe will be supported from what I've confirmed privately. That was a request from me. The good news is I have convinced another manufacturer (I can't say yet due to NDA) to add single-strobe support to future screens. So 2 manufactures with single-strobe 60Hz without need for software-based BFI.

Thanks !

Squeakychu wrote: ↑

24 Aug 2020, 17:48

Strobing with low crosstalk need fast scanout, 4K 144Hz 6.94ms, QHD 240Hz 4.16ms, 4K is 3ms more crosstalky, take it into account. You trade pixel precision with more crosstalk.

144Hz is enought for strobing 60Hz full screen crosstalk free ?