⚠️⚠️⚠️ Most Lag Problems is NOT Electricity Related ⚠️⚠️⚠️

[nickchraj]

That’s just wrong. it’s actually the other way around. Input lag caused by electrical factors is more common than people think, but most people aren’t trained enough to notice it. I’ve tried a lot of gaming centers in my city, and most of them feel awful even on top-tier hardware with 500Hz screens. There are good ones though, places where everything feels snappy and responsive.

[RealNC]

most people aren’t trained enough to notice it

Notice input lag? Or notice that the input lag they already notice is from electricity? How would they do that? Also, is there an explanation yet on how this input lag is even caused? I mean one that makes sense and doesn't copy the explanatory power of flat earth theory.

[DeltaForCain]

That’s just wrong. it’s actually the other way around. Input lag caused by electrical factors is more common than people think, but most people aren’t trained enough to notice it. I’ve tried a lot of gaming centers in my city, and most of them feel awful even on top-tier hardware with 500Hz screens. There are good ones though, places where everything feels snappy and responsive.

None of that has to do with electrical interference or similar, unless you can actually cite your sources. It’s 100% bad setup that leads to lag.

I have recently spent some money on slightly more high quality networking hardware for my home network (enterprise-ish stuff), and that entirely eliminated every single bit of packet loss, bufferbloat, variable jitter, etc. for me. All still using the same sockets. What’s different is the quality of the parts, the quality of the drivers, the cooling (seems to be the biggest factor as my new router is far cooler than my old Fritzbox especially under load), and the overhead.

Unless you’re living in a developing country where the infrastructure is absolutely terrible, your wiring will not result in additional lag.

[nickchraj]

most people aren’t trained enough to notice it

Notice input lag? Or notice that the input lag they already notice is from electricity? How would they do that? Also, is there an explanation yet on how this input lag is even caused? I mean one that makes sense and doesn't copy the explanatory power of flat earth theory.

i ment most people wouldn’t even notice their inputs are being delayed, let alone figure out that it might be an electrical issue or something else entirely.

Is there a clear explanation for how this kind of input lag actually happens? I’m not an expert, but it seems reasonable that EMI and ground loops could affect peripherals in some way. (we could at least see the effect of this where sometimes small adjustments to the electrical setup makes a noticeable difference) I’ve heard that it may be related to error correction, where interference corrupts data, and the device like a mouse has to retry or resend it, which ends up looking like input delay.

If you look at audio engineering communities, they’ve dealt with similar problems for a long time. In their case, interference or ground loops show up as noise in recordings, which is much easier to notice than a few milliseconds of input delay thats why in our case its hard to spot / measure or prove , so It feels like both issues might come from the same root cause

[nickchraj]

That’s just wrong. it’s actually the other way around. Input lag caused by electrical factors is more common than people think, but most people aren’t trained enough to notice it. I’ve tried a lot of gaming centers in my city, and most of them feel awful even on top-tier hardware with 500Hz screens. There are good ones though, places where everything feels snappy and responsive.

None of that has to do with electrical interference or similar, unless you can actually cite your sources. It’s 100% bad setup that leads to lag.

I have recently spent some money on slightly more high quality networking hardware for my home network (enterprise-ish stuff), and that entirely eliminated every single bit of packet loss, bufferbloat, variable jitter, etc. for me. All still using the same sockets. What’s different is the quality of the parts, the quality of the drivers, the cooling (seems to be the biggest factor as my new router is far cooler than my old Fritzbox especially under load), and the overhead.

Unless you’re living in a developing country where the infrastructure is absolutely terrible, your wiring will not result in additional lag.

what do you mean "bad setup"? i dont think you are knowledgeable about the issue enough. there are people who swap their entire setups twice and 3 times i mean every component, and still have the issue, there is not any amount of bios or windows tweaks that could solve this. so what it could be?, its either electricity or people are imagining things.

"packet loss, bufferbloat, variable jitter", none of these is what this thread or this forum is about, these are completely different set of problems that may or may not be caused by electrical factors.

[nickchraj]

most people aren’t trained enough to notice it

Notice input lag? Or notice that the input lag they already notice is from electricity? How would they do that? Also, is there an explanation yet on how this input lag is even caused? I mean one that makes sense and doesn't copy the explanatory power of flat earth theory.

check these two topics, both from different worlds, but the root cause is the same. both had high Ze measurement both seem to fix their issues by lowering the Ze rating

• viewtopic.php?t=15327&sid=78c87581827a2 ... ef#p122647

• http://hometoneblog.com/2023/05/27/stud ... lar-power/

[DeltaForCain]

None of that has to do with electrical interference or similar, unless you can actually cite your sources. It’s 100% bad setup that leads to lag.

I have recently spent some money on slightly more high quality networking hardware for my home network (enterprise-ish stuff), and that entirely eliminated every single bit of packet loss, bufferbloat, variable jitter, etc. for me. All still using the same sockets. What’s different is the quality of the parts, the quality of the drivers, the cooling (seems to be the biggest factor as my new router is far cooler than my old Fritzbox especially under load), and the overhead.

Unless you’re living in a developing country where the infrastructure is absolutely terrible, your wiring will not result in additional lag.

what do you mean "bad setup"? i dont think you are knowledgeable about the issue enough. there are people who swap their entire setups twice and 3 times i mean every component, and still have the issue, there is not any amount of bios or windows tweaks that could solve this. so what it could be?, its either electricity or people are imagining things.

"packet loss, bufferbloat, variable jitter", none of these is what this thread or this forum is about, these are completely different set of problems that may or may not be caused by electrical factors.

I literally wrote what I mean in the post you quoted. Where is the issue. Network lag is 100% setup (bad routers, bad gateways, bad switches, bad cables, using the shoddy mainboard ethernet, or hell, even using for gaming) and has nothing to do with electrical interference, unless you live inside a transformer.

As for peripherals: Input lag is solved by using a cable, but even proper wireless keyboards and gaming mice have incredibly low latencies these days. I run a 2.4 Ghz mouse, and despite having over 35 IoT devices in my 2.4 Ghz Wifi network, which permeates my living space, I have not a single signal dropped on my mouse.

As for stuff outside of your own setup: Again, unless you live in a developing country, where no building codes even exist, all your power lines will be shielded, and the electrical fields that are generated by your devices will be localised to their individual rooms. So unless you’re running your 2000W kettle as well as your microwave RIGHT NEXT to your wireless mouse, they physically cannot interact on an electromagnetic level. Especially since those high power draw devices are again shielded to lower the risk of interference. Microwaves are known to interfere with older Bluetooth devices, but you have to physically move the receiver or transmitter next to the microwave for that to happen.

So, to sum up: If you have lots of lag, and you have excluded everything else (you likely haven’t), find a contractor who will dig out the microwave from your walls.

there are people who swap their entire setups twice and 3 times i mean every component, and still have the issue, there is not any amount of bios or windows tweaks that could solve this. so what it could be?

It’s these people not understanding what the real problem is. Likely people blindly applying ”windows fixes” that are the real culprit (stuff like timer changes, changing CPU sets, changing MSI-x tables, etc., without knowing what they’re doing.

[MK92]

As for stuff outside of your own setup: Again, unless you live in a developing country, where no building codes even exist

Lol, you do realise that 60% of people in the EU still live in the houses / apartments from 1980 or earlier, with still original, never-updated electrical installations, many many of them still on TN-C, right? So unless you treat EU as "developing countries", you are completely wrong again.

If you don't have a knowledge about how high impedance of the wiring interfere with a PC, how floaty ground / neutral reference can mess up the PSU internal ground reference (it should be exactly 0, but in many old apartments its not), how harmonics from switching power supplies work, how neutral imbalance work etc. etc., then don't reply to this thread "it's your PCs fault, you have no clue", because there are TONS of people on this forum which swapped their entire PCs setup 5 times with no improvements. BUT then they tried it at another location and bingo, everything is suddenly perfect...guess why, it must be that the Windows magically tweaked itself when they were travelling right, it's TOTALLY not bad electrical grid / faulty electrical installation.

The newer the components, the more sensitive they are to any minor electrical imperfection, because the hardware is getting too sophisticated, and the engineers test this stuff in the perfect lab environment, not in your average 1970s or 1980s noisy TN-C building.

[Yazeedtt]

most people aren’t trained enough to notice it

Notice input lag? Or notice that the input lag they already notice is from electricity? How would they do that? Also, is there an explanation yet on how this input lag is even caused? I mean one that makes sense and doesn't copy the explanatory power of flat earth theory.

i ment most people wouldn’t even notice their inputs are being delayed, let alone figure out that it might be an electrical issue or something else entirely.

Is there a clear explanation for how this kind of input lag actually happens? I’m not an expert, but it seems reasonable that EMI and ground loops could affect peripherals in some way. (we could at least see the effect of this where sometimes small adjustments to the electrical setup makes a noticeable difference) I’ve heard that it may be related to error correction, where interference corrupts data, and the device like a mouse has to retry or resend it, which ends up looking like input delay.

If you look at audio engineering communities, they’ve dealt with similar problems for a long time. In their case, interference or ground loops show up as noise in recordings, which is much easier to notice than a few milliseconds of input delay thats why in our case its hard to spot / measure or prove , so It feels like both issues might come from the same root cause

How did the audio engineering community solve the problem? Was it by using filters؟

[nickchraj]

most people aren’t trained enough to notice it

Notice input lag? Or notice that the input lag they already notice is from electricity? How would they do that? Also, is there an explanation yet on how this input lag is even caused? I mean one that makes sense and doesn't copy the explanatory power of flat earth theory.

i ment most people wouldn’t even notice their inputs are being delayed, let alone figure out that it might be an electrical issue or something else entirely.

Is there a clear explanation for how this kind of input lag actually happens? I’m not an expert, but it seems reasonable that EMI and ground loops could affect peripherals in some way. (we could at least see the effect of this where sometimes small adjustments to the electrical setup makes a noticeable difference) I’ve heard that it may be related to error correction, where interference corrupts data, and the device like a mouse has to retry or resend it, which ends up looking like input delay.

If you look at audio engineering communities, they’ve dealt with similar problems for a long time. In their case, interference or ground loops show up as noise in recordings, which is much easier to notice than a few milliseconds of input delay thats why in our case its hard to spot / measure or prove , so It feels like both issues might come from the same root cause

How did the audio engineering community solve the problem? Was it by using filters؟

NO. in the example i shared above, they solved it by grounding their house properly. though in other cases they use some filters like this one https://ifiaudio.pl/gnd-defender its well known but i never seen anyone in our community using it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e0qE47pqqw