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Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 14 Sep 2022, 11:07
by Melkxz
2Victory wrote: ā13 Sep 2022, 21:48
Melkxz wrote: ā12 Sep 2022, 14:16
What's the recommended timing for your tfaw?
How much would you rate your mouse feeling atm /10
Decided to buy some new ram in attempts to wrap up this anime arc. The very last thing i haven't changed recently and haven't considered until now was the fact that my RAM wasn't on my MOBO's QVL. Since that's the case, usually the RAM, even if being able to be ran at DOCP, is often not optimized (all subtimings, including hidden ones.). This would sort of explain the bad Auto-configured subtimings for my ram... and weird stability issues when changing literally any timing. I've had 6 kits of ram between two different gaming PC's since i've been building, but only one of them was on my given mobo's QVL thinking back on it. While that one did have good responsiveness, i was playing with Windows DWM adding input lag, as I didn't know of disabling FSO until recently. This thought dawned the prospect of my good Samsung B-Die DIMMS being absolutely bottlenecked by motherboard compatibility.
Just tried installing some extra RAM I had lying around, 4x8gb DIMMs of Trident Z Neo @ 3600 (which also wasn't on my QVL), and after some BARE MINIMUM bios exploration, I realized I literally couldn't even disable
Gear Down Mode without
completely failing to boot 
. So i'm going to get some kits tested to work with my current mobo (and that i've had in the past) to insure my ram is optimized by the DOCP profile.
I have never checked if my ram was compatible,
I think it's harder now to find b-die especially with cheap ram (I mean non rgb
ahah).
About GDM : Force command rate
https://web.archive.org/web/20210121215 ... a-p/415729
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 16 Sep 2022, 06:16
by TheKelz
Maybe it's different on Ryzen but as an Intel user I can tell you that having RAM which is in QVL list doesn't make a difference, same sub timings anyways set by the motherboard. Just FYI.
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 17 Sep 2022, 15:57
by Shade7
I just realized my current RAM Kit (Patriot Viper Steel 3733Mhz 2x8GB) has sticks with 2 different serial numbers when I checked CPU-Z.
Bought them together (as one kit, not individual sticks). Is that normal? Any potential issues?
Stick 1: 1104011E
Stick 2: 1104011F
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 18 Sep 2022, 05:06
by TheKelz
Shade7 wrote: ā17 Sep 2022, 15:57
I just realized my current RAM Kit (Patriot Viper Steel 3733Mhz 2x8GB) has sticks with 2 different serial numbers when I checked CPU-Z.
Bought them together (as one kit, not individual sticks). Is that normal? Any potential issues?
Stick 1: 1104011E
Stick 2: 1104011F
As long as they are both running at the same timings out of the box, it should be normal, especially if you aren't having any issues like stutters or crashes that you can't seem to fix.
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 19 Sep 2022, 11:56
by 2Victory
TheKelz wrote: ā16 Sep 2022, 06:16
Maybe it's different on Ryzen but as an Intel user I can tell you that having RAM which is in QVL list doesn't make a difference, same sub timings anyways set by the motherboard. Just FYI.
Got some Trident Z RGB that was on my mobo QVL vs my Trident Z Neo that wasn't.
Most of the timings we're the exact same, except my tRDRDDD went from 5 to 4 and my tWRWRDD went from 7 to 6, my ProcODT, RttNom, RttWr, and RttPark all changed (don't remember the values), and my AddrCmdDrvStr went from 20 to 24.
Mouse feeling is excellent, this solves my issue.
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 19 Sep 2022, 12:28
by Tell
2Victory wrote: ā19 Sep 2022, 11:56
TheKelz wrote: ā16 Sep 2022, 06:16
Maybe it's different on Ryzen but as an Intel user I can tell you that having RAM which is in QVL list doesn't make a difference, same sub timings anyways set by the motherboard. Just FYI.
Got some Trident Z RGB that was on my mobo QVL vs my Trident Z Neo that wasn't.
Most of the timings we're the exact same, except my tRDRDDD went from 5 to 4 and my tWRWRDD went from 7 to 6, my ProcODT, RttNom, RttWr, and RttPark all changed (don't remember the values), and my AddrCmdDrvStr went from 20 to 24.
Mouse feeling is excellent, this solves my issue.
Those timing changes are usually what happens when you go from four sticks down to two sticks of memory. What was your previous setup? Please share a zentimings screenshot of your new kit.
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 19 Sep 2022, 17:11
by TheKelz
2Victory wrote: ā19 Sep 2022, 11:56
TheKelz wrote: ā16 Sep 2022, 06:16
Maybe it's different on Ryzen but as an Intel user I can tell you that having RAM which is in QVL list doesn't make a difference, same sub timings anyways set by the motherboard. Just FYI.
Got some Trident Z RGB that was on my mobo QVL vs my Trident Z Neo that wasn't.
Most of the timings we're the exact same, except my tRDRDDD went from 5 to 4 and my tWRWRDD went from 7 to 6, my ProcODT, RttNom, RttWr, and RttPark all changed (don't remember the values), and my AddrCmdDrvStr went from 20 to 24.
Mouse feeling is excellent, this solves my issue.
Good for you. Back in the day I used to troubleshoot my input lag issue exactly through changing RAM sticks and I would try different ones listed on QVL and there would be no difference at all (if anything, some non QVL sticks would give me better performance).
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 20 Sep 2022, 03:43
by Melkxz
2Victory wrote: ā19 Sep 2022, 11:56
TheKelz wrote: ā16 Sep 2022, 06:16
Maybe it's different on Ryzen but as an Intel user I can tell you that having RAM which is in QVL list doesn't make a difference, same sub timings anyways set by the motherboard. Just FYI.
Got some Trident Z RGB that was on my mobo QVL vs my Trident Z Neo that wasn't.
Most of the timings we're the exact same, except my tRDRDDD went from 5 to 4 and my tWRWRDD went from 7 to 6, my ProcODT, RttNom, RttWr, and RttPark all changed (don't remember the values), and my AddrCmdDrvStr went from 20 to 24.
Mouse feeling is excellent, this solves my issue.
Great.
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 20 Sep 2022, 21:58
by Shade7
2Victory wrote: ā19 Sep 2022, 11:56
TheKelz wrote: ā16 Sep 2022, 06:16
Maybe it's different on Ryzen but as an Intel user I can tell you that having RAM which is in QVL list doesn't make a difference, same sub timings anyways set by the motherboard. Just FYI.
Got some Trident Z RGB that was on my mobo QVL vs my Trident Z Neo that wasn't.
Most of the timings we're the exact same, except my tRDRDDD went from 5 to 4 and my tWRWRDD went from 7 to 6, my ProcODT, RttNom, RttWr, and RttPark all changed (don't remember the values), and my AddrCmdDrvStr went from 20 to 24.
Mouse feeling is excellent, this solves my issue.
What were your PC specs again? Please link the ram kit too.
Re: input lag on newer pcs
Posted: 15 Jan 2023, 13:18
by Hayai Cranki
Robbo99999 wrote: ā22 Jun 2022, 16:55
kokkatc wrote: ā20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.
All of my kits are samsung b-die and not a single one of them run properly on xmp. XMP just doesn't seem to work. I have to make adjustments to system agent, dram voltage, training voltage and even termination settings just to get XMP to boot and when it does boot, the mouse can feel great one moment and then feel like it's in mud another moment. What I noticed in my situation is that my RTLS are constantly changing, so memory training just appears to be broken as well. Once I found good rtl/iol settings I'd try and lock them in but my mouse feel was always changing. Games also don't feel great at high FPS. The game just feels like it's in mud along w/ movement and mouse feel when it's misbehaving.
I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
It's probably the game server you're playing on and nothing to do with your PC. I've noticed very strange mousefeel on game servers where there are lots of cheaters/hackers in the server - apparently the hacks/cheats they use end up in the server having increased CPU usage and the server gets bogged down, which affects things like mouse feel in the game. It happens on my old PC which is a 6700K CPU, so it's nothing to do with new generation CPUs. I don't know for certain if it's the server causing your problems, but I think it's likely. Probably the same for everyone in here.
Hey Brah, did you solve this by changing your mobo and RAm from DDR4 to DDR5?, just let know everyone who enters this forum, yes, this is an issue with Alder Lake, I have literally the same symptoms with a high-end B-Die DDR4 (4000 MHZ 14-15-15-35) on a 12700 kf, the performance is quite awesome, but the input lag is just a nope nope. I upgraded from a 6700HQ with a 1030 mobile with Optimus enabled as default, I had like 90 ms of input lag most of the time, and input with Alder Lake with DDR4 MUST be higher, but weirder since the system is stable and smooth with good performance. I'm just unable to use this since I built this specifically for competitive gaming, the sadness bruh.
. So i'm going to get some kits tested to work with my current mobo (and that i've had in the past) to insure my ram is optimized by the DOCP profile.