Low MPRT strobing LCD TVs (mostly Samsung, some Sony - lots of RTINGS BFI Test image comparisons)

[JimProfit]

Update: RTINGS review for the QN90F just dropped.
BFI test picture looks absolutely amazing and is compatible with both 60hz and 120hz and a clear improvement over the QN90D test picture, but sadly it appears quite dim and the screen features a matte coating which doesn't seem to do anything good for black levels/contrast. Base brightness is comparable between both models, no generational improvement in that area.
BFI test picture of both included for comparison.

Perhaps removing the matte coating would improve things slightly, but in a world where HDR gaming is getting increasingly more important, having a BFI mode that preserves a lot of brightness plainly seems like a better choice for me, even if it's ~2ms MPRT rather than ~1...
Seems we just can't have a TV that does everything right.

That's because the black frame stays longer i suppose, hence the clearer image at the cost of brightness loss.

It would be so much better if we could control bfi level in a very gradual way similar to contrast, brightness, color, sharpness and so on.

Yes this is a very early post from before I purchased either TV.
Since then, through community input and testing, I have concluded that RTINGs BFI tests on LCD TVs, while inherently accurate, are only partially indicative, because RTINGS do not disclose the brightness/picture settings being used for their BFI test, and while I assume their testing room is temperature controlled, we do not know for sure if and how environmental factors might affect the testing.

Since this post from way back that you're quoting:
-We now know for sure that lowering the brightness of the TVs once LED Motion is activated, further improves motion clarity (pulse width control => brightness vs motion clarity arbitration).
This has been verified on the Samsung QN90D and QN95D but is likely universal among Samsung's higher-end Mini-LEDs.
We have no clue if any other brands of LCD TVs have pulse control that would give them lower MPRT that what their RTINGS test suggests.

-On top of that, we have found out that ambient temperature affects strobe crosstalk (within reasonable range, hotter = better).

-Lastly, it's also pretty certain that panel response times are a factor in how clear the final picture looks in motion.
A TV with an ultra short strobe pulse but horrible response times, may look worse than one with a lesser strobing mode but also less ghosting.
Although obviously MPRT is king.
Since higher-end LCD TVs have to deliver competitive picture quality (especially a decent contrast so they don't look completely ridiculous next to OLED), they tend to rely on modern VA panels which have decent but not great response times.
Not that I have ever seen any TN or fast-IPS TV with a great BFI picture on RTINGS, on monitors that does seems to be the ticket though.

In the case of the Samsung TVs, my current belief is that the QN95D has more potential than the QN90D because it has a slightly faster panel, but I can also attest that lowering brightness on the QN90D increased motion clarity so much that it looked close to the extremely impressive pursuit shot for the 2025 QN90F model. Which you may notice is very dim, so either the LED Motion mode is very aggressive on that TV by default, or perhaps RTINGS did the test by turning on LED Motion when the TV was already calibrated for 100nits SDR, who knows...
Edit: You can check both pursuit shots on page 3 for comparison. QN90D is tested brighter and blurrier, QN90F is tested dimmer and clearer. It would make sense that this is primarily the result of inconsistent brightness settings.

Anyway again I wish all LCD TVs were competitive with Samsung on that front, including brightness/pulse control.
I really hope Sony's newer Mini-LED does this as well, because if I couldn't have gotten my hands on a glossy Samsung Mini-LED from 2024, I would probably have had to settle for a Bravia 7 II.

[JimProfit]

RTINGS early-access review for the Bravia 9 II dropped today (65" model tested) and the BFI pursuit shot is beauuutiful.
CAD tests are pretty good too, they compare well with the best Samsung Mini-LEDs.
I am so bummed that these have a matte coating because otherwise they appear to be pretty awesome.
Actually it appears the 115" model has a glossy finish, but I worry about strobe crosstalk at this size.
Not to mention I would need to reorganize my entire house and get a really nice end of year bonus before I even begin to consider pulling the trigger on that one...

But there's hope, people. Sony's BFI greatness is back, at long last.

Edit: adding the QN90F pursuit shot to represent what Samsung's high-end Mini-LEDs can achieve with BFI + lowered brightness, as we currently have no evidence that Sony TVs can increase motion clarity by doing the same.

[brownvim]

Not bad, thanks for the pics. What’s the brightness of both?

I always liked Sony’s motion for films and sport. Would be interested in checking one out for console use.

[kyube]

Edit: adding the QN90F pursuit shot to represent what Samsung's high-end Mini-LEDs can achieve with BFI + lowered brightness, as we currently have no evidence that Sony TVs can increase motion clarity by doing the same.

That's somewhat absurdly clear for a 120Hz LCD TV @ 1920 px/s.
It rivals the DyAc2 photo I've posted here in terms of effective motion clarity.
I'm somewhat against 65"-sized TVs, but that's impressive.
Did RTINGS mention what brightness the TV targets?
I assume local dimming is disabled when MBR is enabled?

[JimProfit]

Edit: adding the QN90F pursuit shot to represent what Samsung's high-end Mini-LEDs can achieve with BFI + lowered brightness, as we currently have no evidence that Sony TVs can increase motion clarity by doing the same.

That's somewhat absurdly clear for a 120Hz LCD TV @ 1920 px/s.
It rivals the DyAc2 photo I've posted here in terms of effective motion clarity.
I'm somewhat against 65"-sized TVs, but that's impressive.
Did RTINGS mention what brightness the TV targets?
I assume local dimming is disabled when MBR is enabled?

Read my post prior to the one where I posted the two screenshots. We don't know about inconsistencies in brightness settings, the exact settings used for the BFI pursuit shots is undisclosed.
Therefore, I chose to put their QN90F pursuit shot because I know my QN90D and QN95D can get close to that by lowering the brightness once LED Motion (BFI) is engaged and it's likely how the QN90F pursuit shot was taken anyway judging by how dim the shot is.
MPRT on Samsung's Mini-LEDs is better than the new Sony RGBs unless proven otherwise, however it's also pretty clear that the Bravia 9 II has amazing qualities that would arguably compensate for the potential advantage in motion clarity. To me the matte screen is the deal breaker but who knows what the future holds.

[JimProfit]

Not bad, thanks for the pics. What’s the brightness of both?

I always liked Sony’s motion for films and sport. Would be interested in checking one out for console use.

The Bravia 9 II peaks at 4200+nits on a 2% window. Sustained 100% window is just under 1000nits. That's insane. If the brightness/pulse width control worked as it does on the Samsung, the MPRT could be very low with plenty of brightness to spare for HDR highlights!
In comparison the QN95D is below 2000nits even in the best of cases, and a solid >600nits on a 100% window.

The PWM dimming frequency is 720hz in the two new Sony RGB TVs whereas it is 960hz on the Samsung Mini-LEDs.
Perhaps that is a factor in the way BFI strobing works (maximum hertz translating to minimum MPRT possible at 0 brightness?), but I have no idea.
Tech experts feel free to step in!

Pixel response time is better on the Bravia 9 II at higher refreshes, but the QN95D is slightly better at 60hz. The Bravia 7 II, although decent and better than the R95H, is noticeably below these two. I would call the QN95D and Bravia 9 II neck and neck.

The Bravia 9 II managed to slightly best the QN95D in contrast and zone count, which is a bit of an exploit in and of itself. Still close though, and black uniformity is pretty much unmatched on the QN95D (as far as LCD go).

Color volume is where RGB Mini-LED truly trounces regular Mini-LED (and OLED, for that matter!). The Bravia 9 II has insane bt2020 coverage.
It also has slightly better HDR color gradient, a point on which the QN95D was also one of the very best!

One area in which Samsung still holds an edge is when it comes to latency under certain circumstances. The Bravia 9 II has ~200ms of lag outside of Game Mode, meaning that playing with interpolation is a big no no.
Samsung TVs on the other hand are so far the only one with a low-lag (~25ms) interpolation setting within Game Mode. Which in turn can be used in conjunction with the brightness/pulse width control trick.
Outside of Game Mode, the QN95D has ~65ms of lag, not great but playable in comparison to the Bravia 9 II. Maybe in some games you want the best picture quality and don't care too much about lag, like in a turn based RPG maybe?

So there you have it, I think that's most of the relevant comparison points done.
By the strictest definition of being a giant CRT emulator, the QN95D still has the edge (glossy screen, higher proven motion clarity, faster pixel response time at 60hz, slightly better black uniformity...), but damn does the Bravia 9 II have incredible potential.

[brownvim]

Not bad, thanks for the pics. What’s the brightness of both?

I always liked Sony’s motion for films and sport. Would be interested in checking one out for console use.

The Bravia 9 II peaks at 4200+nits on a 2% window. Sustained 100% window is just under 1000nits. That's insane. If the brightness/pulse width control worked as it does on the Samsung, the MPRT could be very low with plenty of brightness to spare for HDR highlights!
In comparison the QN95D is below 2000nits even in the best of cases, and a solid >600nits on a 100% window.

The PWM dimming frequency is 720hz in the two new Sony RGB TVs whereas it is 960hz on the Samsung Mini-LEDs.
Perhaps that is a factor in the way BFI strobing works (maximum hertz translating to minimum MPRT possible at 0 brightness?), but I have no idea.
Tech experts feel free to step in!

Pixel response time is better on the Bravia 9 II at higher refreshes, but the QN95D is slightly better at 60hz. The Bravia 7 II, although decent and better than the R95H, is noticeably below these two. I would call the QN95D and Bravia 9 II neck and neck.

The Bravia 9 II managed to slightly best the QN95D in contrast and zone count, which is a bit of an exploit in and of itself. Still close though, and black uniformity is pretty much unmatched on the QN95D (as far as LCD go).

Color volume is where RGB Mini-LED truly trounces regular Mini-LED (and OLED, for that matter!). The Bravia 9 II has insane bt2020 coverage.
It also has slightly better HDR color gradient, a point on which the QN95D was also one of the very best!

One area in which Samsung still holds an edge is when it comes to latency under certain circumstances. The Bravia 9 II has ~200ms of lag outside of Game Mode, meaning that playing with interpolation is a big no no.
Samsung TVs on the other hand are so far the only one with a low-lag (~25ms) interpolation setting within Game Mode. Which in turn can be used in conjunction with the brightness/pulse width control trick.
Outside of Game Mode, the QN95D has ~65ms of lag, not great but playable in comparison to the Bravia 9 II. Maybe in some games you want the best picture quality and don't care too much about lag, like in a turn based RPG maybe?

So there you have it, I think that's most of the relevant comparison points done.
By the strictest definition of being a giant CRT emulator, the QN95D still has the edge (glossy screen, highest proven motion clarity, faster pixel response time at 60hz, slightly better black uniformity...), but damn does the Bravia 9 II have incredible potential.

Thanks, what would you say are the cons of TV image quality using strobing? artefacts, lag, smearing etc.

[JimProfit]

Thanks, what would you say are the cons of TV image quality using strobing? artefacts, lag, smearing etc.

I'm not a calibrator, and my instinctive guess is that it depends on the TV and how much the image is dimmed.
Flickering aside, I fail to notice any kind of artifact being made so much more obvious that they feel nearly as bad as the blur.
That hasn't occurred to me on my Samsung's, that hasn't occurred to me on my OLEDs, my ULMB monitors, even my lesser LCDs from a decade ago. Strobe crosstalk can affect certain displays for sure, but the severity varies from model to model.

Some displays also refresh at 120hz even when being fed a 60hz signal and therefore will have double image artifacts no matter if strobing is on or not.
But I'd rather take some duplication artifacts than the blur anyway, provided the blur reduction is significant.

To give you an extreme example. Would you rather play your 60fps-locked game in a 120hz ULMB <1ms mode, that will have image duplication AND possibly a bit of crosstalk on the top and/or bottom, or would you rather spend time in a federal, blur-me-in-the-eyes 60hz sample-and-hold prison? To me the choice is pretty...clear.

Obviously depending on the model and the intensity of the strobing, the image may get so dim that you may need to resort to artifices in order for the image to be viewable. Adjusting gamma, toying around with dynamic contrast stuff, perhaps increasing color saturation a bit,...But I mostly did this on my LG GX that really gets too dim. I was willing to sacrifice a bit of picture accuracy in order to get 4x less motion blur at 60hz with OLED's perfect blacks, small price to pay.
Not to mention, Game Mode typically is not as color accurate as Filmmaker Mode and the like to begin with, so when you wanna use strobing, you have to be willing to either do a separate calibration, or base yourself off "factory accurate mode" settings, and compensate by eye for obvious differences/to what's more pleasing in real content.

For SDR content, I would always 100% use strobing. Even on newer OLEDs/lesser LCDs that don't gain much from BFI, there is likely more than enough brightness for an SDR picture that is as accurate as possible.

HDR is another whole can of worm, a headache so massive that makes me happy to be a retro gamer 80% of my gaming time.

Most people would agree that you need at least 400nits to be considered HDR, that anything under is just an overbright SDR picture.
My LG GX with Motion Pro High at 60hz is already a bit dim for SDR: sustained 100% windows brightness of just ~40nits.
On the LG G1, at 60hz Motion Pro High (0.375 time the brightness and therefore motion blur), you get like 350nits on 2% peaks, a bit shy of the base standard HDR400 but since BFI is less aggressive in that mode, fullscreen brightness never feels severely insufficient, it's just the bright highlights that are unimpressive.
Even at 120hz Motion Pro Medium (240hz equivalent) you wouldn't quite reach 400nits on the GX, and maybe barely touch it on the G1, I believe.
By the way, when it comes to strobing displays, is there any room for the concept of EDR? Enhanced Dynamic Ranger? Like better than SDR but not quite the bare minimum for HDR? Like the old Enhanced Definition EDTVs? Just a playful thought...

In any case, on my Samsungs with 60hz LED Motion On and max brightness, they definitely reach 400nits peaks in HDR mode, with a very decent fullscreen brightness that OLED cannot even approach.
So it is possible to do both strobing and compromised HDR at the same time, which is what I would prefer to do in most games unless they are really slow moving, but gorgeous game (Which I would likely prefer to experience on an OLED anyway, so for me LCD = strobing, no matter the cost).
But even in the best situations, HDR gaming is so inconsistent, you often have to fix the black floor, bring out shadow details while avoiding blowing up anything due to tone mapping. Strobing only adds more things to compensate for but most of the time you will have to put in the work no matter what.

If you don't have 400+nits left when BFI is engaged, it is likely preferable to do the Windows HDR>SDR slider trick which will yield an overall pleasant and mostly problem free picture.
As I said, it is a headache.

I would love to hear the "protocol" of more experienced HDR gamers.
There's obviously Ariel from the Youtube channel "Plasma TV For Gaming", but he posts so much that I would actually have to spare some serious deep dive study time to find which information is still up to date.

[Baron of Sun]

Exciting findings! Is there anyone that own the new Bravia 9 II and can confirm if the motion blur is further reduced by reducing the brightness setting? Also does is only have a 120 Hz BFI or a 60 Hz BFI as well?

[roginthemachine]

I’m angling to see if my local TV outlet is happy to let me do some basic testing on the R95H and Bravia 9 ii like they did a year back for the QN90D. But I think it’s highly unlikely the Bravia 9 ii’s strobing would scale with brightness - given it already has three separate settings, Low medium high.

The R95H might do it, but unless the new firmware update improved response times (doubtful) the ghosting will still be a dealbreaker