Blur Busters Forums

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

23 Oct 2020, 14:00

spacerocktraveler wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2020, 17:27

I have been strongly considering the benq 2546 or 2746 strictly to enjoy Valorant and whatever other fps games I want to play, but am willing to hold out for maybe another 3-6 months for a quality 1440p 240hz monitor ONLY IF it is comparable to the best 1080p monitors in terms of clarity, response times, and motion blur.

Anything 2019-and-prior IPS is generally not esports-competitive-enough. You need modern 2020-era "1ms GtG IPS" (new faster IPS panel tech that gets much closer to TN).

This catapults IPS into esports-usable territory, with some esports IPS monitors having less lag than several esports TN monitors (the venn diagram fully overlaps now). There's a big improvement between 2018-era 165Hz IPS and 2020-era 165Hz IPS, and you should be getting at least 240Hz anyway for Valorant.

Even 280Hz and 360Hz can give Valorant advantages too, given 360Hz has about half the display motion blur of 165Hz at full framerates, given the rule of doubling refreshrate & framerate halving display motion blur (assuming realworld GtG isn't bottlenecking badly).

That said, the BenQ XL2546 series are really good for Valorant too, low lag and low blur, with good 240Hz strobing. That said, if you don't use strobing, upcoming wide-gamut 240Hz fast-IPS with saturated colors can make it easier to see camoflaged enemies. Just make sure you keep framerates really high (identical to 1080p) to have 240Hz 1440p similar lag as 240Hz 1080p. Fortunately, that's not impossible for Valorant, given its CPU-limited nature on newer GPUs.

Sorry I have not made your decision simpler. There's multiple legitimate upgrade paths including 2020-era IPS with less blur and less lag than older BenQs such as the XL2420G

Thanks so much for your response Chief.

Honestly the best I have to offer this conversation is to concede and agree with the fact I'm fairly overwhelmed with all the choices for a multitude of reasons. The ideal monitor for me is likely a 1440p 240Hz NanoIPS you've mentioned coming early 2021. Do you think these early 2021 versions will offer the quality of strobing at 1440p & 240hz that's found now in the 2546k?

I'm tempted to buy MAG251RX or maybe the newer benq XL2546K but if the new 1440p 240hz monitors with strobing potentially offer the same quality and performance of these models and the only difference is price, then I feel there's absolutely zero reason to shell out the cash now if they're only a couple months away. If however they're like 6 months away, then I'll probably get my hands on something now. After spotting a few deals and being indecisive, I'm ready to pull the trigger I think.

I spoke with someone who upgraded their xl2546 to the new pg w/e # 360hz and they weren't totally blown away. It's probably going to be quite awhile till a 1440p 360hz is available, what do you think?

spacerocktraveler wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 15:30

I spoke with someone who upgraded their xl2546 to the new pg w/e # 360hz and they weren't totally blown away. It's probably going to be quite awhile till a 1440p 360hz is available, what do you think?

Blur Busters recommends geometric refresh rate upgrades to punch the diminishing curve of returns.

144Hz to 360Hz is the natural upgrade path.

60Hz->144Hz = bigger upgrade (2.4x refresh)
144Hz->360Hz = bigger upgrade (2.5x refresh)
144Hz->240Hz = smaller upgrade (1.67x refresh)
240Hz->360Hz = smaller upgrade (1.5x refresh)

However, smaller upgrades are perfectly fine if you're professionally playing (high competitive, streamer, paid esports, etc). However, if you're casually playing competitive, plus lots of solo stuff (CyberPunk 2077, Word, work, etc) and want a more enjoyable experience, and want to jump to 240Hz, you may wish to consider simultaneous IPS upgrade.

Certainly, 240Hz TN may outperform 240Hz IPS slightly in some cases, but 360Hz IPS can outperform 240Hz TN by a bit. The extra refresh rate compensates quite a signiifcant amount. And I no longer use strobing if I can get my frame rates up to >350fps minimum in the game. Blur Busters greatly prefers strobeless motion blur reduction where possible, and 360Hz starts to go into the entry-level territory of nearly blurless sample & hold. However, this does not work if you cannot get framerate high enough.

Please be noted that 120fps at 120Hz strobing is superior to 120fps at 240Hz strobing, so you need to use strobing, make sure to raise framerates too, when upgrading monitor, or strobing can tend to look worse.

You may want to switch from strobed to VRR operation, because as framerates maxes out, it approaches similar motion clarity as strobed at 360fps@360Hz (~2.8ms MPRT) which is similar to the longest pulse width strobing of older strobing at longer/default Blur Busters Strobe Utility strobe lengths (144Hz 2ms flash). To most eyes, strobeless blur reduction looks more pleasing. 360Hz is the finally the entry level point of this.

However, strobing can still do better (0.5ms MPRT) at shorter strobe pulse widths, and it'll be hard to beat that with strobeless blur reduction for a long time.

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 14:10

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

Do you use DyAC+ on your BenQ?

For an apples-vs-apples strobe latency comparison, did you test non-ELMB-SYNC version of ELMB, via VSYNC OFF? DyAc+ BenQ +VSYNC OFF needs to be compared to non-ELMB-SYNC ELMB + VSYNC OFF.

Also, testing 240Hz ELMB (non-ELMB-SYNC) on the VG259QM instead of 280Hz can also be worthy for versusing against BenQs -- because of the jitter-mechanics of 1000Hz mouse poll rate which tends to start becoming less smooth for >240Hz (one thing we've noticed is one tends to need 2000Hz pollrate or better for a monitor above 240Hz)

Asymmetric ghosting on the ASUS can be an issue relative to the XL2546K, but we should make sure that the weak link is correctly compared so we can determine what was hurting the competitive advantage.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 20:33

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 14:10

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

Do you use DyAC+ on your BenQ?

For an apples-vs-apples latency comparison, did you test non-ELMB-SYNC version of ELMB, via VSYNC OFF? DyAc+ BenQ VSYNC OFF needs to be compared to non-ELMB-SYNC ELMB VSYNC OFF.

Also, testing 240Hz ELMB (non-ELMB-SYNC) on the VG259QM instead of 280Hz can also be worthy for versusing against BenQs -- because of the jitter-mechanics of 1000Hz mouse poll rate which tends to start becoming less smooth for >240Hz (one thing we've noticed is one tends to need 2000Hz pollrate or better for a monitor above 240Hz)

Asymmetric ghosting on the ASUS can be an issue relative to the XL2546K, but we should make sure that the weak link is correctly compared so we can determine what was hurting the competitive advantage.

Unfortunately before I sent the VG back I did NOT test any variations with 240hz. That may have been wise - missed opportunity. Besides that, I did try all variations of adaptive sync, elmb sync, overdrive (ended up sticking with the 120 overdrive - it was definitely better), ultra low latency mode in nvidia drivers, etc. The problem was less with the image refreshing and clarity (which I found was best at 280hz with adaptive sync off, elmb on, and 120 overdrive) and more to do with a feeling of "sluggishness" when maxing out movement speed in diabotical and trying to flick aim with the rail gun (sniper rifle basically). I did lots of A-B testing with different settings against my alienware and I performed worse on the alienware in games like call of duty which relies a bit more on target acquisition rather than super fast twitching, but performed better in overwatch and diabotical. I felt like adding here in this thread as I believe there may be others like me.

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 14:10

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

I have never tried the AW2518HF, but I did try the HP Omen X25f (which is faster than the AW2518HF) and the difference (CS:GO) in input lag or smoothness with the VG259QM was negligible or almost imperceptible. I am not using any kind of sync.

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 21:53

I felt like adding here in this thread as I believe there may be others like me.

It's a worthy contribution!

For future posters wanting to versus the BenQ (DyAc) you'll want same Hz-for-Hz, and same strobe-for-strobe (turn of VRR strobe).

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 14:10

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

Not surprised, TN is faster and the AW2518HF has such better ufo tests results vs IPS without ULMB methods... IPS is only good for colors and use as main monitor

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 14:10

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

On what resolution are u playing @drjackmann ?

johny_ro wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2020, 05:25

drjackmann wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2020, 14:10

posting here to add a counterpoint to the "2020 gen IPS monitors are as good or superior to TN" - I'm a fast paced gamer with a twitch style of aiming and currently play Overwatch in GM+ as a DPS player, Diabotical, Valorant, etc. I made the transition from an Alienware 2518hf to the Asus VG259QM. The colors and detail were incredible and indeed did give me an advantage over my old set-up in situations where enemies were farther away or standing in a place where they were mildly camouflaged. However, it did NOT feel as responsive when playing super high paced duels. The image always remained very 'sharp' and clear with ELMB enabled at 280hz, but there was a noticeable lack of "smoothness" that I've always gotten from my high refresh TN set-ups. I've since sent that monitor back for return as of this morning and set-up the new XL2546k TN 240hz and it is so much easier to play in high ELO fps games again.

On what resolution are u playing @drjackmann ?

depends on the game honestly.. and sometimes i switch around. here's what i've been using the past two months.
overwatch - native 1920x1080 (but render scale at 75pct)
valorant - 1600x900
diabotical - native but 4:3 1440x1080
csgo - 1024x768 black bars
apex - native 1920x1080