Blur Busters Forums

akirru wrote:I would like to start by saying thank-you for all of your hard work jorimt

I just had a quick question to ask you. Does it matter at all if you change the pre-rendered frames whilst gsync is activated? I'm quite sensitive to mouse lag. And I usually set it to pre-rendered frame "1" ... I just wanted to find out if its recommended to do this whilst using G-sync.

Thanks
Andrew

I'm glad you found my OP useful (more to come).

I actually addressed that question a few pages ago:
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic ... =80#p24438

Perhaps useful to some, my findings anyway, this could deviate from game to game.

HPET here keeps my internal game frame limiter more stable, versus pure TSC. So less fluctuations and more stable frametimes.
Assuming you do not want to use V-sync, otherwise you get frametime stabilization anyway. But even with V-sync on, it could mean hitting the V-sync barrier or not.

This could be handy in case you want to maximize your FPS and keep G-sync bottom tearing mostly stable.

HPET vs TSC also affect performance as my tests shows:

_____________________________

HPET Off, UsePlatformClock False
299 fps

HPET On, UsePlatformClock False
299 fps

HPET On, UsePlatformClock True
275 fps

HPET Off, UsePlatformClock True
275 fps

This is on maximized CPU load and minimal GPU load.
It seems as only when you force HPET through Windows as well, FPS drops start to happen.

___________________________

Perhaps a bit irrelevant info but oh well.

Also tweaking Windows timer resolution from 0.1000ms to 0.500ms can drift in-game FPS cap up or downwards depending on which hardware timer used, so for some additional finetuning perhaps.

Cheers!

jorimt wrote:

akirru wrote:I would like to start by saying thank-you for all of your hard work jorimt

I just had a quick question to ask you. Does it matter at all if you change the pre-rendered frames whilst gsync is activated? I'm quite sensitive to mouse lag. And I usually set it to pre-rendered frame "1" ... I just wanted to find out if its recommended to do this whilst using G-sync.

Thanks
Andrew

I'm glad you found my OP useful (more to come).

I actually addressed that question a few pages ago:
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic ... =80#p24438

Thanks for getting back to me jorimt

Interesting and as you said I think it is an inconsistent variable. I get worse performance in some games and still no noticeable change in input lag. I certainly think capping the framerate below the threshold of G-sync might negate any real input lag anyway. I have it capped at "141" on Rivatuner and most games feel butter smooth. I mean I still get increased lag when I have a massive drop in fps. But that isn't the fault of G-sync.

EDIT: Something I have noticed but not really thoroughly looked into. Is the effect your mouse can have on input lag and Gsync itself. For example I have a g400s which stutters a lot. And a rat5 (pretty bad for competitive gaming as it has a laser) which is really smooth. But overall the g400s has less input lag.

Excelent post jorimt, you've answered many doubts to many gamers like me. However, after reading all this post I still have a question: Having G-SYNC Activated + V-SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL, I should turn ON or OFF V SYNC IN-GAME? Does it matter for example if I have V SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL and OFF IN-GAME?

By the way I play mostly Battlefield 1 in a Dell S2716DG G-SYNC monitor and GTX 1080.

capcomasd wrote:Having G-SYNC Activated + V-SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL, I should turn ON or OFF V SYNC IN-GAME?

In-game vsync must be OFF. It can interfere with g-sync otherwise (like the game doing triple buffering, or using timing that assumes the rendering is synced to a fixed refresh, or doing an automatic 60FPS cap, or whatever.)

So, always OFF.

In games that don't have an in-game vsync setting you usually need to tweak some ini file.

RealNC wrote:

capcomasd wrote:Having G-SYNC Activated + V-SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL, I should turn ON or OFF V SYNC IN-GAME?

In-game vsync must be OFF. It can interfere with g-sync otherwise (like the game doing triple buffering, or using timing that assumes the rendering is synced to a fixed refresh, or doing an automatic 60FPS cap, or whatever.)

So, always OFF.

In games that don't have an in-game vsync setting you usually need to tweak some ini file.

Don't want to confuse things but........I thought the message from the OP was in NCP have G-SYNC on and V-SYNC 'use 3D application setting' and in game have V-SYNC On.

Or.....

In NCP have G-SYNC On and V-SYNC On and in game have V-SYNC Off.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

akirru wrote: Thanks for getting back to me jorimt

Interesting and as you said I think it is an inconsistent variable. I get worse performance in some games and still no noticeable change in input lag. I certainly think capping the framerate below the threshold of G-sync might negate any real input lag anyway. I have it capped at "141" on Rivatuner and most games feel butter smooth. I mean I still get increased lag when I have a massive drop in fps. But that isn't the fault of G-sync.

EDIT: Something I have noticed but not really thoroughly looked into. Is the effect your mouse can have on input lag and Gsync itself. For example I have a g400s which stutters a lot. And a rat5 (pretty bad for competitive gaming as it has a laser) which is really smooth. But overall the g400s has less input lag.

Yes, as my input latency tests show, a 2-3 frame cap below your max refresh rate is enough to prevent additonal input latency with G-Sync + v-sync on. As stated in an edit on my OP, however, RTSS likely adds 1 frame of input latency over in-game caps, which add none. So in-game framerate limiters are still preferred.

I will be retesting for input latency across a wide range of scenarios in the coming weeks, and with improved testing equipment, so stay tuned.

Regarding frametime spikes (aka "massive fps drops"), with standalone double-buffer v-sync (G-Sync disabled), there will be long halts during frametime spikes, and with G-Sync + v-sync on, you'll get shorter halts, but they will still be there, as the frametime compensation mechanism suspends the affect frame just long enough to prevent tearing. With G-Sync + v-sync off/standlone v-sync off, you're going to see a complete middle tearline, but in most instance, with less/shorter halts.

As for the difference in input latency between your two mice, it's likely the polling rate. For high refresh rates and G-Sync, the higher the polling rate, the better. If either of your mice has a "1000 Hz" polling rate option, you'll need to enable that for the lowest input latency and optimal response.

capcomasd wrote:Excelent post jorimt, you've answered many doubts to many gamers like me. However, after reading all this post I still have a question: Having G-SYNC Activated + V-SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL, I should turn ON or OFF V SYNC IN-GAME? Does it matter for example if I have V SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL and OFF IN-GAME?

By the way I play mostly Battlefield 1 in a Dell S2716DG G-SYNC monitor and GTX 1080.

As RealNC stated, Nvidia Control Panel v-sync is the safest bet.

However, as I noted in my OP, there are (extremely) rare occasions where only the in-game v-sync setting will work for a given game, in which case you should enable it in-game instead.

An easy way to tell if the Nvidia Control Panel v-sync setting isn't working, is if you see tearing at any point with G-Sync enabled.

But yes, 99% of the time for G-Sync: v-sync on in Nvidia Control Panel, v-sync off in-game.

jorimt wrote:

akirru wrote: Thanks for getting back to me jorimt

Interesting and as you said I think it is an inconsistent variable. I get worse performance in some games and still no noticeable change in input lag. I certainly think capping the framerate below the threshold of G-sync might negate any real input lag anyway. I have it capped at "141" on Rivatuner and most games feel butter smooth. I mean I still get increased lag when I have a massive drop in fps. But that isn't the fault of G-sync.

EDIT: Something I have noticed but not really thoroughly looked into. Is the effect your mouse can have on input lag and Gsync itself. For example I have a g400s which stutters a lot. And a rat5 (pretty bad for competitive gaming as it has a laser) which is really smooth. But overall the g400s has less input lag.

Yes, as my input latency tests show, a 2-3 frame cap below your max refresh rate is enough to prevent additonal input latency with G-Sync + v-sync on. As stated in an edit on my OP, however, RTSS likely adds 1 frame of input latency over in-game caps, which add none. So in-game framerate limiters are still preferred.

I will be retesting for input latency across a wide range of scenarios in the coming weeks, and with improved testing equipment, so stay tuned.

Regarding frametime spikes (aka "massive fps drops"), with standalone double-buffer v-sync (G-Sync disabled), there will be long halts during frametime spikes, and with G-Sync + v-sync on, you'll get shorter halts, but they will still be there, as the frametime compensation mechanism suspends the affect frame just long enough to prevent tearing. With G-Sync + v-sync off/standlone v-sync off, you're going to see a complete middle tearline, but in most instance, with less/shorter halts.

As for the difference in input latency between your two mice, it's likely the polling rate. For high refresh rates and G-Sync, the higher the polling rate, the better. If either of your mice has a "1000 Hz" polling rate option, you'll need to enable that for the lowest input latency and optimal response.

capcomasd wrote:Excelent post jorimt, you've answered many doubts to many gamers like me. However, after reading all this post I still have a question: Having G-SYNC Activated + V-SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL, I should turn ON or OFF V SYNC IN-GAME? Does it matter for example if I have V SYNC ON in NVIDIA CONTROL PANEL and OFF IN-GAME?

By the way I play mostly Battlefield 1 in a Dell S2716DG G-SYNC monitor and GTX 1080.

As RealNC stated, Nvidia Control Panel v-sync is the safest bet.

However, as I noted in my OP, there are (extremely) rare occasions where only the in-game v-sync setting will work for a given game, in which case you should enable it in-game instead.

An easy way to tell if the Nvidia Control Panel v-sync setting isn't working, is if you see tearing at any point with G-Sync enabled.

But yes, 99% of the time for G-Sync: v-sync on in Nvidia Control Panel, v-sync off in-game.

Clear enough, thanks for the fast reply guys!

I just tried the "max pre-rendered frames" setting with G-Sync in Witcher 3. I've set it to 8 in Inspector. Two settings need to be changed, because Inspector does not sync them. In the "Sync and Refresh" section "Maximum pre-rendered frames" must be set to 8, and in the "Other" section (scroll down to the bottom) "Maximum frames allowed" must be "0x00000008".

It makes a MASSIVE difference when no frame capping is done. Input lag is so big I can count tenths of seconds visually. It feels like it's somewhere around 200ms. It's borderline unplayable.

However, when capping the frame rate the input lag disappears. This is true for both the in-game capper as well as RTSS. However, when the game doesn't hit the cap (for example when capping to 80FPS but the game only puts out 70FPS), the huge input lag is back.

You can use custom frame rates to cap at with the in-game limiter by editing the "user.settings" file (it's in the "Documents\The Witcher 3" folder. Example:

LimitFPS=80

So at least for Witcher 3, it makes a TON of difference when either not capping the frame rate, or when the game's frame rate falls below the value you capped it at. Which for g-sync means setting pre-rendered frames to 1 is still best for input lag, since the whole point of g-sync is to allow the game to fall below the cap without causing stutters.

There was no performance or "smoothness" difference between a max frames setting of 1 and 8. Performance was exactly the same and no "hiccups" of any kind were there with a setting of 1.

As a side-note, it feels like RTSS adds a bit more input lag compared to the in-game limiter. I have no equipment to test this though. My way of testing was to disable the "hardware cursor" in the game's video settings and compare the in-game mouse cursor movement (not the camera pan, I mean the actual mouse cursor in the game's ESC menu.) With RTSS it does feel a bit "floaty", while with the in-game limiter it doesn't.

"Maximum frames allowed" working only in OpenGL apps (c) Guru3d

My problem is DIABLO III - This is f*ing mess... G-sync, V-sync, Frame cap... This game is don't give a sh*t to this. It's stutter in town even with SOLID caps like 60\120\144 fps. (Game on SSD, but tried WD Black HDD and my USB 3.0 external HDD)