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Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 13:15
by Zavon
RLCScontender wrote:
29 Apr 2020, 12:30
Boyz, the g-sync hardware with VRR HDMI(yes, the first of its kind), they are taking pre orders. $499.99 acer predator xb273 x.

yes folks, FULL fat g-sync on a 240hz ips monitor with VRR HDMI for console gaming(the first of its kind). I can only imagine how ridiculously low the input lag is and how the variable overdrive lowering the g2g average. I think the MSi gets dethroned here

then again, g-sync is useless if the FPS is above the refresh rate. So if you are playing CS Go at above 300hz, this monitor is useless. But the benefits are, g-sync hardware and good console gaming. Also ,it's 27" 1080p, some people don't like the size of that monitor relative to the resolution.

however, as i stated earlier, 27" for 1080p isn't that much worse than 24.5" 1080p because the visual acuity is 2 inches apart.
8 bit, 99% sRGB, with a minimum claim of 0.1ms g2g. I obviously get the feeling that 0.1ms is nowhere close to that unless you want extreme overshoot. If I wasn't afraid of Acer's legendary piss-poor quality with their products I've experienced, I'd be more willing to pay the $499 price. Might just shoot for it if I can't find the MSI or Alienware at least, though I'm still open to the XG.

edit: Is it potentially using the same panel as the XV273x or the XB273GX (minus the G-Sync module)? At the very least, RTings and Tft have reviews of that up, just not the XB

Edit 2: well, it’s now up on Amazon so I placed an order for it, no shipping ETA currently, came out to 494 after using the Discover promo that I was saving. Also tossed in an order for the AW2521HF since Dell’s website still lets you order for some reason when its temp oos if you play with the store order url, not expected until July 1. I imagine I’ll have the Acer next week potentially, so I’ll find out quickly if it’ll end up getting returned for the AW (if it ever comes), or the MAG if it comes back in stock.

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 03:10
by axaro1
From my understanding 240hz monitors have lower input lag at maximum refresh rate with the MAG251RX being the most consistent over the refresh rate spectrum.
What kind of input lag am I getting if I buy a VG259QM and I lock my framerate for example at 165hz with VRR(the maximum consistent framerate I can get out of my 1600 with 1080p on OW) compared to a native 165hz monitor?

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 11:03
by AddictFPS
XB273X is not the first native GSync monitor doing VRR HDMI https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/blog/acer- ... over-hdmi/

According https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/f9a71bdf XB273X not support 8bits+FRC color, but maybe is a mistake ?

0.1ms GtG is fake, XV273X also claim this, and TFTCentral review show that is false, far from it with the most agressive overdrive, just dishonest marketing.

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 11:55
by Zavon
AddictFPS wrote:
30 Apr 2020, 11:03
XB273X is not the first native GSync monitor doing VRR HDMI https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/blog/acer- ... over-hdmi/

According https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/f9a71bdf XB273X not support 8bits+FRC color, but maybe is a mistake ?

0.1ms GtG is fake, XV273X also claim this, and TFTCentral review show that is false, far from it with the most agressive overdrive, just dishonest marketing.
I can't find anything on the XB273X or it's G-Sync compatible cousin (GX). I can confirm whenever it decides to come though.

Edit: correction, TFT has the XV as 8 bit only. I know the Nitros are supposed to be the sort of "budget" line, but I can't really see the XB having 8 bit + frc.

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 14:58
by RLCSContender*
Guys, it's not the AHVA in which the alienware, MSI, 280hz asus comes in. It's the same exact panel as the acer nitro xv273 except with a predator logo on the bottom bezel. It's a 1st generation panel with g-sync hardware. I don't think the g-sync will make up for the 4.5-5ms g2g average it comes with

g-sync really doesnt' benefit 240hz especially if you play games that has framerates above 240hz refresh. Also, g sync adds input lag but it eliminates the "tearing and stuttering". At 240hz, tearing and stuttering is basically invisible or inconsequential since the added motion clarity of 240hz mitigate any form of tearing and motion blur anyway. THe input lag is simply not worth the invisible tearing you "may" or "may not" see. (u wont, trust me,I have 20/20 vision and i was supposed to see "pixel spearing on the 280hz asus since it's only 30% compliant to the 280hz refresh rate and i SAW zero difference from if i had it at 240hz w/ 90% compliance). , even on a 144hz monitor on 250hz framerate, tearing is still hard to find unless yuo really really look for it. And even if you did, it goes away VERY fast and won't obstruct your performance at 144hz. at 240hz, tearing is basically invisible(although, I only speak for myself in this regard, I have 20/20 vision and i'm fairly observant and nitpicky, so if I can't see it, u probably can't either but i only speak for myself)

again, it's the same exact first generation monitor as the nitro xv273 monitor except with a "predator" logo instead of a "nitro" logo on the bottom bezel. These two monitors came out at the same time but the predator was only on sale on certain parts of europe.

There are added benefits though. VRR HDMI is the first of its kind, unlike other g-sync monitors that don't have VRR HDMI, which means it will be HDMI 2.0 instead of HDMI 1.4. If you plan to play xbox series x or ps5, HDMI VRR on hardware g-sync will allow adaptive sync to work on the consoles. Then again, there's a SHITLOAD Of less expensive monitors that can run VRR HDMI. This monitor is still using the g-sync module(v1) but it's also compatible with freesync on display port if yuo downlaod the firmware update.

so yes, u won't see much of a difference from the nitro xv273, outside of hardware g-sync(which u probably wont' even use if the framerate exceedds 240hz, i know i wont' since g-sync adds input lag and u also wont' get the added anti latency benefits if the framerate is above the refresh rate(the higher the FPS, the LESS latency you will have)

no, it's not 0.1, it's closer to 4.6-5.0ms like the nitro xv273(progbably slightly quicker thanks to variable overdrive). It's probably 0.1 on its fastest overdrive setting on its fastest transition with enormous overshoot.

If you want to play it safe, get theses IPS 240hz monitors: 280z Asus. 240hz MSI or the 240hz 25" alienware IF any of these monitors are available that has the lowest price. GET IT ASAP. These three are guaranteed to give you a true 240hz w/ TN like performance. (moreso on the alienware if you turn on double certified)

Don't get scammed by acer's 0.9, 0.1, 0.5 claims. One fellow member here said acer has poor quality control, and i will take a consumer's WORD above the ppl who market their own products.

here is what 0.5ms or 1ms g2g average looks like(acer xb253q gx) vs the 280hz asus. Does that look like 0.5ms or 1ms to u?

Image

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 15:17
by RLCSContender*
alsp FPSaddict, i've done my research about internal dithering and color depth. There's absolutely NO PROOF that if a monitor can't get a 10 bit signal, that it will have internal dithering(outside of MAJOR exceptions like the viewsonic xg270qg) for the AHVA panels not named the 251rx MSI. I trust what "windows 10" is telling me that it's a 10 bit signal WITH FULL color range compared or an 8 bit signal with "limited" color range, than any sources you provided.

the asus vg279qm/vg259qm is 8 bit. (it was even advertised on their website). The color depth is 8 bit. if they claimed 10 bti(or 8 bit+FRC) then the company would EASILy put it in their ad.

here's proof of the differnce in uniformity.

10 bit color (dark blue background) MSI(this is on my desktop, as u can see the mouse cursor and slight backlight bleed on the lower right corner, so it's turned ON)

Image

vs

8 bit color depth(dark blue background) ASUS


Image

this is what a white background looks like in 8 bit 280hz ASUS(I do NOT have this problem with the MSI despite being the same AHVA panel)

Image

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 15:31
by RLCSContender*
to anyone who missed this post i made on a different thread. Here it is.

alienware aw2521hf vs the #1 ranked 240hz IPS monitor MSI
RLCScontender wrote:
28 Apr 2020, 13:43
I'm going to begin the 1 vs 1 series for the MSi MAg251rx to see how other 240hz ips monitors stand up against it . I will make these comparisons in layman's terms and use FACTS only, so no opinions or any subjective non-sense.

Dell Alienware AW2521HF vs the MSI optix MAG251rx (CONTEXT=OVERALL)

PRICE
AW2521HF price=$510
MAG251rx price=$380
Winner=MSI

blur reduction technology(BFi or backlight strobing)
AW2521HF=no backlight strobing
MAG251rx=has backlight strobing even at 240hz
winner=MSI

when this matters.#1 Ever wondered why you ranked up so much faster from gaming on a 60hz monitor to 144hz? Bcuz you saw LESS motion blur, less tearing, and the moving target was way mroe sharp.

Physiology of vision, the photons from a sharp image on FAST MOVING OBJECTS will be sent to your brain and will sub-consciously give you better accuracy and reaction times.which means more accurate headshots or more accurate "shot on target" on rocket league without even thinking about it. .he sharper the image against fast moving objects, the better your accuracy will be since the extra sharpness will determine unequivocal confidence that you will get an ACCURATE headshoot or an ACCURATE "shot on target". strobing the backlight does this very well. Another thing, it gives you a 2nd option to play which may or may not break a bad losing streak. This however gives you more gameplay options which is a luxury to have if u intend to play a different way. This in turn will enhance your gaming experience.

HDR+console gaming
AW2521HF=VRR 40-24hz on HDMI
MAg251rx=VRR 40-240hz on HDMI
AW2521hf=optimal overdrive at 60hz=standard(normal)(ultra fast/extreme will give massive overshoot)
MAG251rx=optimal overdrive at 60hz=FASTER
AW2521hf=no HDR
MAG251rx=Has HDR(500 nits 1200 contrast ratio)
AW2521hf=Low framerate compensation
MSI=not freesync premiuim certified, so LFP isn't as good(then again, this doesn't matter since ps5/series x won't require LFP anyway)

winnerMSI

When these matter. Want to buy a ps5 or series x and have 3ms g2g average with 3ms input lag? The MSI does this well. THe overdrive tuning at 60hz is excellent on its fastest overdrive setting on the MSI, but not so much for the AW2521hf since anything above the normal overdrive setting will introduce overshoot (oh believe me, at 60hz, it's 100x more obvious).

HDR signal will increase the luminance(nits) to 480, but for the aLienware, it cannot get an HDR signal. VESA400 HDR may not be good, but if say yuo want to play a CONSOLE game, that vesa400HDR will start to kick in and yuo will see deeper blacks and whiter whites especially in videogames(for movies, don't even turn HDR on, it will wash out the colors since 1200 contrast ratio isin't nearly good enough to turn it on, but for videogames, there IS an important in picture quality, just don't turn HDR on if u are playing a competitive game, turn it on if you are playing an RPG or any slower games.

Colors/color accuracy/color accurate work/gamut
Aw2521hf=8 bit signal, 99% srgb(although slightly oversaturated), 16 million colors LIMITED
MAG251=10 bit signal, 99% srgb(although slightly oversaturated), 1 billion emulated colors FULL
Winner=MSI


overall performance in the context of gaming
AW2521hf= 2.2-2.6 g2g average on extreme overdrive IF DOUBLE certified(yes, the alienware is the only 240hz monitor that is double certified, this will mitigate overshoot even on extreme overdrive) is turned on. With roughly a 2.2-2.6 g2g, the 240hz ips alienware is faster than the 240hz ips MSI at 3ms g2g. .
MSI 251RX=3.0/3.1 g2g average.

The problem is, at 240hz framerate, adaptive sync isn't necessary anyway, and will just add unnecessary input lag. Not to mention, double certification doesn't benefit at framerates above 240hz, which means if the framerate is 380hz, since you NEED double certified to be ON to mitigate overshoot on EXTREME overdrive, you won't get the benefits of reduced input lag if you set a framerate cap within the double certified range of 40-240hz for the alilenware.

How the boneheads from dell not realize that is beyond me. Adaptive sync on a 240hz monitor is USELESS in the context of competitive videogames at high FPS (unless u have backlight strobing w/ adaptive sync on at the same time). All it does is add input lag, nothing more. All of the esports professionals can attes to what i'm saying.

The real optimal g2g average without the gimmicks=4.6-5.0ms for the alienware since anything above the standard normal overdrive will give ghosting unless dbl certified is on(which adds input lag)
the real optimal g2g average without gimmicks=3ms for the MSI, no adaptive sync or any gimmicks necessary.

winner=MSI

Stand and monitor quality and aesthetics

Winner=aw2521hf

The alienware has excellent monitor quality. Especially the stand. It can rotate, pivot, swivel, and can change the height. The MSI has a cheap plastic stand, no swivel, no rotation, no pivot. Just height only. (just my opinion) but The MSI is probably the ugliest monitor to look at it since it's thicker than the others, the 27gn750 and the AW2521hf are the best looking monitors. this probably explains why the alienware 240hz ips is $510, if you see it on sale, get it.

tld;rr;

The MSI is better in almost every way except the quality of the stand

winner=MSI

It's not even close.

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 16:51
by Zavon
RLCScontender wrote:
30 Apr 2020, 14:58
Guys, it's not the AHVA in which the alienware, MSI, 280hz asus comes in. It's the same exact panel as the acer nitro xv273 except with a predator logo on the bottom bezel. It's a 1st generation panel with g-sync hardware. I don't think the g-sync will make up for the 4.5-5ms g2g average it comes with

again, it's the same exact first generation monitor as the nitro xv273 monitor except with a "predator" logo instead of a "nitro" logo on the bottom bezel. These two monitors came out at the same time but the predator was only on sale on certain parts of europe.

so yes, u won't see much of a difference from the nitro xv273, outside of hardware g-sync(which u probably wont' even use if the framerate exceedds 240hz, i know i wont' since g-sync adds input lag and u also wont' get the added anti latency benefits if the framerate is above the refresh rate(the higher the FPS, the LESS latency you will have)

no, it's not 0.1, it's closer to 4.6-5.0ms like the nitro xv273(progbably slightly quicker thanks to variable overdrive). It's probably 0.1 on its fastest overdrive setting on its fastest transition with enormous overshoot.
I'd figure as much that it's the same panel considering we don't exactly have a large variety of 27 240hz IPS panels yet. I'll probably leave the order up anyways just so I have something to play with, and to see if I'm even comfortable using a 27 1080p monitor. At the very least, Amazon has a great return policy. I would hope Acer would use better binned panels for its Predator brand though. I doubt I'll be able to compare it side by side with the AW2521HF whenever it decides to come considering estimated arrival date is July 2nd, though Dell finally relisted it on their website and dates are June 24th for expedited shipping (lol).

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 20:05
by 1000WATT
Each is mistaken in his own way.
Although Notty_PT skipped geometry classes at school, it was interesting and fun to debate with him.
The author of this topic seems wooden. :lol:
Forgive me Сhief. :oops:

Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Posted: 30 Apr 2020, 20:09
by jnashville
my 25 inch vg259qm has very good uniformity and no back light bleed. tested on a black background with my cursor on.

i guess your vg279qm is just panel lottery. u are unlucky.

Image