Blur Busters Forums

Can somebody explain me what i'm seeing? it is impossible to photo/screen (at least with cameras i have) but it is really bothering me.
So i have old 120Hz Asus and bought XL2540 couple of days ago, little bit disappointed with AMA technology due to inverse ghosting when bright object moves, but it is kind of ok.

But when playing at high fps i noticed some weird vertical lines on solid color surfaces in game that appears only when i'm doing movement that changes surface position on monitor in some ways (sorry for explanation, but the point is those lines appears for short period of time and it is not always easy to do).

first i thought i just see things, but later i saw exactly same lines in this test - http://www.testufo.com/#test=flicker

its not really lines, but surface (especially grey) does not look like solid color on XL2540, it does look 100% solid color on my 120Hz ASUS, but on new BENQ it feels like one line of pixel is noticeable brighter than other, when setting black->grey(50%) i literally see hundreds green and red vertical pixel lines. What is this?

changing contrast makes them disappear/appear on certain colors, switching monitor 120Hz does not make much of difference (it changes background color brightness tho).

iamwinner wrote:Can somebody explain me what i'm seeing? it is impossible to photo/screen (at least with cameras i have) but it is really bothering me.
So i have old 120Hz Asus and bought XL2540 couple of days ago, little bit disappointed with AMA technology due to inverse ghosting when bright object moves, but it is kind of ok.

But when playing at high fps i noticed some weird vertical lines on solid color surfaces in game that appears only when i'm doing movement that changes surface position on monitor in some ways (sorry for explanation, but the point is those lines appears for short period of time and it is not always easy to do).

first i thought i just see things, but later i saw exactly same lines in this test - http://www.testufo.com/#test=flicker

its not really lines, but surface (especially grey) does not look like solid color on XL2540, it does look 100% solid color on my 120Hz ASUS, but on new BENQ it feels like one line of pixel is noticeable brighter than other, when setting black->grey(50%) i literally see hundreds green and red vertical pixel lines. What is this?

changing contrast makes them disappear/appear on certain colors.

Something like this? https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comme ... r/dadehv0/

Trip wrote:

RPGWiZaRD wrote:As long as it's capable to produce a good result (crosstalk wise) using Blur Reduction at 160~180Hz or so range I'm interested. The lower refresh rate setting might even be more suitable for my specs as well.

That particular range does not cope well with increasing vertical total for some strange reason. At 150hz you can put it as high as the bandwidth cap of the pixel clock is (600mhz). At 190hz you can also go to the bandwidth cap. But for some reason if you go to around 180hz it does not want to increase the vt. So yeah just keep that in mind. But I think at 200hz and a decent area setting crosstalk is still not very bothersome you can see it in test ufo but in game you dont notice it as much because you look at the middle anyway.

The cut off point is around 182 hz and you can get a vt of 1582 at that setting. If you use area 100 and intensity 15 practically the whole screen is free of cross talk.

OK, of course doesn't have to be exactly 160-180Hz, was just giving an example that would be okay to me. So you're saying 182Hz should give me a reasonable crosstalk free experience? I don't only want to be crosstalk free at the middle of the screen, my mind will automatically go look for the issue so if I can see it I cannot "unsee" it if I know it's there. I rather reduce to a lower performance/lower refresh rate (more ghosting) in favor for crosstalk free setting. If I cannot get a crosstalk free setting (well to the point I will not notice it with gaming or scrolling webpage etc) then I would probably be a bit disappointed personally. I like increased motion smoothness but I don't want it to come at the cost of halos around objects. For example when I compared Samsung's first gen 120Hz vs my ViewSonic in 2009 I even became disturbed by the Samsungs untweakable OD setting, I noticed artefacts when scrolling down an internet page as the text would give kind of trailing effect or something which didn't appear on the ViewSonic (I assume it's down to overdrive as the ViewSonic didn't have that) and greatly preferred the sligthly bit increased response times but without any artefacts.

eveneveneven wrote:

iamwinner wrote:Can somebody explain me what i'm seeing? it is impossible to photo/screen (at least with cameras i have) but it is really bothering me.
So i have old 120Hz Asus and bought XL2540 couple of days ago, little bit disappointed with AMA technology due to inverse ghosting when bright object moves, but it is kind of ok.

But when playing at high fps i noticed some weird vertical lines on solid color surfaces in game that appears only when i'm doing movement that changes surface position on monitor in some ways (sorry for explanation, but the point is those lines appears for short period of time and it is not always easy to do).

first i thought i just see things, but later i saw exactly same lines in this test - http://www.testufo.com/#test=flicker

its not really lines, but surface (especially grey) does not look like solid color on XL2540, it does look 100% solid color on my 120Hz ASUS, but on new BENQ it feels like one line of pixel is noticeable brighter than other, when setting black->grey(50%) i literally see hundreds green and red vertical pixel lines. What is this?

changing contrast makes them disappear/appear on certain colors.

Something like this? https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comme ... r/dadehv0/

yeah, exactly like this, but i don't see any on solid non-moving image, only sometimes in-game and in flicker test, but it feels like those guys are talking about same thing.

I can still see those lines when XL2540 on 120Hz, but on my old ASUS VG236H (native 120Hz, non LED backlight) there is non. Sometimes (using asus) on some colors it feels like i can see those pixels, but they are highlighted not as lines, but like in chess order so color look almost solid.

also i really don't like how bright object on dark background moves, when AMA is on - there is really bright ghost trail behind it, and when AMA is OFF this object will become red (why red? no red colors near it) inside, like red colors will start to appear near object borders going deeper inside it faster i move it. but things like this is mostly fixable by playing with monitor settings.
No luck with blur reduction btw, i'm getting crosstalk even on custom resolutions.

Any suggestions?
http://i.imgur.com/kSmmmhe.jpg

V1 Firmware, 240Hz blur reduction is ON, area 30, photo of middle of screen. (AMA High).
Should i try making lower Hz resolution to get rid of this ghosting?

iamwinner wrote:Any suggestions?
http://i.imgur.com/kSmmmhe.jpg

V1 Firmware, 240Hz blur reduction is ON, area 30, photo of middle of screen. (AMA High).
Should i try making lower Hz resolution to get rid of this ghosting?

960px/sec?

Q83Ia7ta wrote:

iamwinner wrote:Any suggestions?
http://i.imgur.com/kSmmmhe.jpg

V1 Firmware, 240Hz blur reduction is ON, area 30, photo of middle of screen. (AMA High).
Should i try making lower Hz resolution to get rid of this ghosting?

960px/sec?

yes

What's the camera exposure length? If a fast exposure (half refresh, 1/500sec or faster) that admittedly looks somewhat so-so.

Static camera position doesn't always work as well in accurately capturing what it really looks. It really needs to be a pursuit camera for the accurate WYSIWYG appearance, which often look different from a static photograph (which may actually overlap multiple refresh cycles, and sometimes look worse than what is seen by eye).

Trip wrote:

RPGWiZaRD wrote:As long as it's capable to produce a good result (crosstalk wise) using Blur Reduction at 160~180Hz or so range I'm interested. The lower refresh rate setting might even be more suitable for my specs as well.

That particular range does not cope well with increasing vertical total for some strange reason. At 150hz you can put it as high as the bandwidth cap of the pixel clock is (600mhz). At 190hz you can also go to the bandwidth cap. But for some reason if you go to around 180hz it does not want to increase the vt. So yeah just keep that in mind. But I think at 200hz and a decent area setting crosstalk is still not very bothersome you can see it in test ufo but in game you dont notice it as much because you look at the middle anyway.

The cut off point is around 182 hz and you can get a vt of 1582 at that setting. If you use area 100 and intensity 15 practically the whole screen is free of cross talk.

So my guesstimate was quite spot-on. 180Hz is the blur-reduction sweet spot of a 240Hz 1ms TN monitor capable of large vertical totals. I think you could probably get to ~200Hz with a little narrower clarity band across the middle of the screen (more crosstalk at top/bottom edges), especially if there's a way to slightly shorten the length of the strobe flash to compensate for the shorter blanking interval required.

Monitor manufacturer releasing new 240Hz monitors need to be able to do all the following:
-- Support of strobing at all refresh rates (239Hz, 238Hz, 237Hz, etc...)
-- A way of adjusting strobe phase.
-- A way of adjusting strobe length.
-- Support of extra-large vertical totals at lower refresh rates than max (e.g. Vertical Total 2160+ for 1920x1080 at 120Hz).
Large vertical totals permits accelerated delivery of refresh cycles to the display at full cable speed (e.g. deliver frames to monitor in 1/240sec regardless of current lower refresh rate). This can reduce the input lag of lower refresh rates (especially during VSYNC ON situations), as well as can make strobing more clear-looking by creating a longer interval between refresh cycles to permit LCD GtG pixel settlement before strobing the backlight before the next refresh cycle.

This will allow excellent fine-tuning the perfect cross-talk, while also reducing input lag of strobed operation.

Hahahah, no i just sync my hand with UFO moving it against monitor and take picture low budget pursuit camera.

RPGWiZaRD wrote:OK, of course doesn't have to be exactly 160-180Hz, was just giving an example that would be okay to me. So you're saying 182Hz should give me a reasonable crosstalk free experience? I don't only want to be crosstalk free at the middle of the screen, my mind will automatically go look for the issue so if I can see it I cannot "unsee" it if I know it's there. I rather reduce to a lower performance/lower refresh rate (more ghosting) in favor for crosstalk free setting. If I cannot get a crosstalk free setting (well to the point I will not notice it with gaming or scrolling webpage etc) then I would probably be a bit disappointed personally. I like increased motion smoothness but I don't want it to come at the cost of halos around objects. For example when I compared Samsung's first gen 120Hz vs my ViewSonic in 2009 I even became disturbed by the Samsungs untweakable OD setting, I noticed artefacts when scrolling down an internet page as the text would give kind of trailing effect or something which didn't appear on the ViewSonic (I assume it's down to overdrive as the ViewSonic didn't have that) and greatly preferred the sligthly bit increased response times but without any artefacts.

Everyone has their own opinion on what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. I remember a review about the xb270hu in which the guy complained about the inner reflection of the monitor bezel. I know a lot of people that think viewing angles and color reproduction of tn's are really bad and unacceptable. I think on the 2540 blur reduction looks perfect across the whole screen at that 182 hz setting I gave.
Although personally I prefer 245 hz with blur reduction and accept the cross talk at the bottom and top for fast games because I like responsiveness more then motion clarity across the whole screen.