Blur Busters Forums

mello wrote: ↑

11 Jan 2021, 10:12

nuggify wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2021, 15:41

That is funny. I have a discord of near 70 members with this issue, and it is certainly not internet. You can fully disconnect internet and its all still there. The only person that fixed it (like fully mitigated the symptoms- we still have no idea what the source is) did so with chemical grounding. He had all the classic symptoms of desync and input lag.

How many times i need to say that ? As long as someone has these problems outside of online gaming, then obviously this has nothing to do with the internet. I do not contest that. These are obviously two separate issues. What i'm saying thought, is that some people *might* be going crazy about this whole thing and start thinking and convincing themselves that they have also problems outside of online gaming. There is a very high possibility of that being the case, due to how human brain works. As i said, i have seen in the last ~20 years, people making all kinds of ridiculous claims regarding certain bios settings, windows settings, game setting - "improving" or "fixing" things, making gaming "better", when in reality 95% of these "tips & tricks" are total and meaningless garbage. Same thing when it comes to hardware, peripherals, cables etc. Have you ever heard about the audiophile market ? Many audiophiles and "special high quality equipment" promoters make many claims about improvements in sound etc. What the reality looks like ? When you put it against an AB test, they usually fail to tell the difference and 'what is what'. The power of the human mind.

nuggify wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2021, 15:41

Maybe you should listen to me and consider what I have to say. That thread nicko started about net issues, he got a dedicated line (T1 connection) and still same problem. Then he started to realize it simply was not internet. He lifted ground prong to PC and the issue improved a ton (temporarily).

Had seen that argument million times already. Someone changes something, things magically improve, but after some time (same or next day usually) things get worse once again. I have been throught the exact same things in the past, making all kinds of both, dumb and smart, changes, feeling an improvement but eventually problem came back with full force. This happens because this problem fluctuates in severity on its own, which is very deceitful. Even if you do nothing, the problem goes away, comes back on its own and changes in severity without any interventions. Also, i'm also unable to know what issues other people are having and perceiving. So, we might be talking about the same, similar or completely different things.

nuggify wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2021, 15:41

There is something causing this that is electrical in nature and many people suffer it. I strongly urge you to try some of the tests we have spoken about just to see for yourself.

I can make this problem go away in 15 seconds, by switching the internet from one to another. Same server, same people, same map, everything is the same, an near immediate disconnection & reconnetion (15 seconds difference) to the server. One connection (Fibre 1 Gb/s both ways, ~10ms) = problem is constant, only the severity of it changes all the time, second connection (mobile internet, don't know the speed, most likley the usual ~20-80 Mb/s, ping ~25ms) = problem is literally non existent. I'm sorry, but you can't beat this with anything you do, say or hypothesize.

we have shity internet guys go buy better internet guy instatly become god again woaaaah how easy is that

It's clear that internet can cause hitreg problems, no doubts about it. But how can you explain slow keyboard's reaction and choppy mouse movement? If you're able to find corelation between these issues then Nobel prize is waiting for you mate.

a_c_r_e_a_l wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 19:42

It's clear that internet can cause hitreg problems, no doubts about it. But how can you explain slow keyboard's reaction and choppy mouse movement? If you're able to find corelation between these issues then Nobel prize is waiting for you mate.

This is an easy part to explain, but it all depends on the game that you play. In FPS games where characters have special abilities that you can use, you will definitely experience this occurring from time to time. I remember playing Overwatch few years ago and having trouble with ultimates/abilites sometimes, meaning them not registering/activating despite pressing the button. I perfectly understand that the right timing is crucial in games, so when you want to use your special ability/ultimate while maneuvering, you need to be able to calculate the right time to use it. If you have internet problems, the server calculates and decides that enemy players were faster than you and they were able to kill you (or use their abilities for counter for example), before you were able to use your own ability. But on your side, on your own screen and based on everything that was happening, you know that you used it just at the right time, but somehow it didn't register.

Same thing with choppy mouse feeling, recoil inconsistencies or an inability to control the recoil. This also depends on the game. In Counter-Strike there is this phenomenon that i noticed long time ago, that other players movements and actions are literally causing lags for yourself. For example, you have succesfuly flanked an entire team, you are close enough to start making kills, but they are also shooting at someone or wallbanging, and when you have internet problems it is impossible to get clean shots on anyone because mouse feeling choppy while aiming and recoil feels really weird and laggy. Getting one or two kills in this situation is a success. Without the internet problems, it is effortless to get clean shots & kills on the entire or an almost entire team. Same when you are facing an entire team rushing through your current position. With the internet behaving badly getting 1 kill is hard, because aiming & recoil feels heavy / laggy as hell (+ hit reg problems, enemies seeing you faster etc.), but when internet behaves correctly i can wipe an entire or almost entire team effortlessly, sometimes with them not even beeing able to react and shoot a single bullet. Even the style of your gameplay is highly dependent on that. When i have huge internet problems (very easy to notice that) i resort more to spray & pray (full auto spraying) type of gameplay (also more tentative), because recoil is atrocious & laggy and hit registration is bad or sometimes almost non existent. But when internet works better you can just feel it, because everything is registering better (same with aiming and recoil), so you can start relying more on one taps, even trick shots, and all your actions are executed with more confidence etc. It almost feels like internet packets of other players are prioritized over your own packets and other players actions (movement & shooting) are literally lagging all of your own actions that you perform. In fact, this is exactly how it looks like on the screen. This happens even if they are not shooting directly at you, as explained above with the example of flanking. The only thing that needs to happen is you being close enough, when that happens more information (packets) are being sent your way. This is why when nothing is happening, everything can seem fine, but as soon as action starts, it feels weird, like a laggy & inconsistent mess.

Also, different games have different netcodes & different lag compensation algorithms, so this internet problem manifests itself similary or differently in different games or some things are beeing "hidden" behind better netcode but they clearly still occur. For example, in Apex Legends, there are no recoil problems (in the same way as in CS) no matter what kind of action occurs. But when i have internet problems it is literally impossible to achieve proper tracking on moving targets or get clean shots, because when they are moving it almost looks like you are always trailing behind the enemy. When the problem is less severe or doesn't occur no more, then i can achieve impeccable tracking on enemies (basically what you can observe on elite / top players streams) and i'm able to hit almost everything the way it should happen & register.

Basically, when you have internet problems, all or most the server calculations are going against you. Why that happens ? Well, i suspect that when something is happening to your packets on the upstream channel, the server is forced to calculate everything based on late / incomplete or an out of order data and do more "predictions" on your behalf. And when more incorrect predictions do occur, that is then being reflected in how your game behaves and what happens on your screen.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

i had many times weird kicks in mid of a match by anticheats and still don't know why...
but i noticed that this mostly happened when i feel that things like hitreg improved and i start to kill enemies really easy.

all this happened in 2 different games with different anticheats...
is this all just coincidence or is it possible that this improvement in hitreg that i feel has something to with this kick ?

Don't know and never heard about that. Most likely a coincidence.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

another weird thing that i have here is like a pattern where start feel for 2-3 matches an improvement but then it all degrades to an absurd point and i can't even kill my enemies from behind then...

This is exactly how this problem manifests itself. This is because of internet performance fluctuations occurring & constantly changing. People need to understand that the strain & inet utilization within ISP's network changes all the time. So the most basic explanation for that is when more people are using internet in your area, then the preventive measures for network problems / overload are being mitigated by whatever your ISP is using (root cause of this problem) to control the traffic.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

it all becomes painful to watch and unplayable even when stats like ping, fps are still stable low and don't changes.

Correct. Nothing on your side changes (as far as measurements go), ping, packet loss, jitter, fps etc.
And yet, you can see and feel the gaming becoming unplayable.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

this is the most weird experience i ever seen in online gaming and still can't understand how this is possible.

It is possible due to complexity of things involved in internet communication & transfer of packets which most people are simply not aware of.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

but i know for fact that im not crazy and there rly something degrading but i still don't figured out what the triggers are for this phenomenon.

What changes is the way UDP packets are being handled & transferred by your ISP on the upstream channel. Think of it in terms of overclocking. When you do that, the temp goes up, stability goes down, more errors appear and this can cause system to crash. Now, think about throttling, what it does and why it is being used periodically in certain scenarios. The same goes for internet transfers. If there is an increased activity detected in the network and certain network parameters change, then most ISP's are using certain mitigations methods to avoid network overload, instability (lags, ping spikes, jitter, packet loss etc.) and disconnections to occur for its clients. It is a completely automated process that controls the traffic. If you live in area where the infrastructure is not robust enough, then you can be constantly plagued by this "throttling" phenomenon, which clearly interferes with gaming UDP packets and then causes all kinds of problems and weird behaviour in online games. I think that this "feature" (wherever it comes from) might by always active in certain ISP's networks, so basically you are always being "throttled" to a certain degree, only the severity of it changes. And above a certain threshold, the online gaming can become almost unplayable at times. The unthrottled networks that do not use this "feature" or use different ones, simply do not behave in this way, so your gaming performance is always on point.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

and sometimes this changes are visual noticeable like the movements getting smoother or unsmooth...faster and slow...same with the mouse movements. maybe this all just a placebo and side effect of the short improvement that i feel before ?

Not a placebo, this is exactly how it feels and appears on your screen, especially in games like Counter-Strike. Your brain is sophisticated enough, so you are able to easily see, feel and "detect" these changes because your brain knows that things have changed and it has detected the instability & inconsistency in what you perceive. Your brain likes things being stable & constant, so every inconsistency & erratic behaviour of things happening around you, puts it into a stress mode. It then tries to adapt to the changes it perceives with the incoming information. Your brain always tries to adapt, so you can perform at your best at whatever you do. It simply detects all the inconsistencies and then you perceive the change in things like smoothness, slowing down (lagging) and that certain things are simply not "right".

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

what you think ?
sound this like internet/udp related issue that i have or is it something else ?

Sounds exactly like internet issue. Welcome in the club.

blackmagic wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 09:51

that the problem i have and i can't figure out what this can be...
im rly clueless at this point about this all.

You can't really do anything. The only viable solutions are trying every ISP possible, including business solutions which includes packet prioritization. If this doesn't help, moving to another place is THE ONLY solution, otherwise you might be plagued by this issue for life.

Dont know why we are talking here about Internet or stuff like that. The problem of us (more then 100hundred) that i know isnt intetnet. Its 0% internet problem.

I think Emi, Emf and Rf are just sidenotes for the problem.

Also take a look on this video i recorded yesterday - my neighbour bought a E-Car and a PV System. I think also i got this problems because of him.

What you say about that: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxbUKwsDqQQ

It happened when my neighbour plugged in his car yesterday. And i am the last one on the electricity line and seems that i getting his shit in my house.

Even i dont say it is 100% emi or emf - could be just a side note for all of that.

Palacko wrote: ↑

15 Jan 2021, 11:42

Dont know why we are talking here about Internet or stuff like that. The problem of us (more then 100hundred) that i know isnt intetnet. Its 0% internet problem.

I think Emi, Emf and Rf are just sidenotes for the problem.

Also take a look on this video i recorded yesterday - my neighbour bought a E-Car and a PV System. I think also i got this problems because of him.

What you say about that: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxbUKwsDqQQ

It happened when my neighbour plugged in his car yesterday. And i am the last one on the electricity line and seems that i getting his shit in my house.

Even i dont say it is 100% emi or emf - could be just a side note for all of that.

If ground of his charging station is in vicinity of your house's grounding then most probably you may experience ground loop.

I dont know what you exactly mean - i live in a new house. 3phase 50hz - every single house have its own grounding.

But anyways its weird why i get this measurment in my house when neighbours E-car charging.

yo mello chill keyboard movement is not spells in game

mello wrote: ↑

15 Jan 2021, 05:30

Basically, when you have internet problems, all or most the server calculations are going against you. Why that happens ? Well, i suspect that when something is happening to your packets on the upstream channel, the server is forced to calculate everything based on late / incomplete or an out of order data and do more "predictions" on your behalf. And when more incorrect predictions do occur, that is then being reflected in how your game behaves and what happens on your screen.

That should be measurable. Why do you keep saying this? You think its ISP equipment or software, however when people change ISP (thus all the equipment and connections) they still have issues.

Furthermore this thread is about people with problems beyond online issues. You do realize how easy it is to check for that right? Just test your computer offline. If someone has not done this and jumps to it being electrically caused, they are a moron. End of story. It is simply the easiest thing to do, to test offline. I have spoken to 90% of the people in this thread personally and their issues are not just online. Again, for many folks electrical changes to the setup have instantaneous and clear effects just like me.

What part of the connection do you actually think the ISP is throttling when people test out dedicated lines? Have you actually contacted ISPs, or spoken to network specialists on what is actually even theoretically possible here? What types of throttling mechanisms do ISPs employ that would cause your packets to slow down or be out of order, and at the same time be unable to observe this via metrics? Why are there many, many people (the likes of pros and streamers) with no issues to speak of like this? Some of these places run the same connection type, same ISP, same networking hardware etc, the only difference being location.

For some reason you keep saying its placebo when its the people saying its electrical but if its the people saying its connection related, all the sudden its not placebo. This is arguing in bad faith. Please check your biases here and come up with some actual arguments. I understand for you it is only online. For the mass majority of people reporting these issues they have mouse tracking, and input latency problems OFFLINE.

mello wrote: ↑

14 Jan 2021, 05:01

Now, this is the problem i was talking about. I think i was pretty clear what i meant, and yet you still don't get it. If you do nothing, nothing at all, the problem still fluctuates in severity, disappears for short periods and comes back on its own. So, why do you think that making ANY CHANGES, ANY AT ALL, makes any difference or improves things, even for a short while ? Why do you insist on that, when people are making any kind changes to their hardware, software, settings etc., that it actually changes or improves anything ? Think about it from the psychological perspective and how human brain works. This is a collective insanity and people are simply fooling themselves and they don't even know it.

Yes I did say the problem fluctuates on its own and it is NEVER fully gone (not like the night and day difference when I test my hardware at a working location). But you do not understand or are specifically disregarding what me and so many others have to say- it is clear as day that these changes we are doing are causing instantaneous effect. Many of them are reproducible to a degree. That does not mean it is a fix. I wish you could see it for yourself so you would stop with this nonsense about collective insanity. With that logic you are insane as well. Me finding that my inputs go through perfectly fine when my Online UPS is unplugged running on battery is proof that it is electrically caused, in the same way that it is proof for you that running offline shows no desync problem- pointing to the network as the source. I do not believe neither you nor I are suffering from placebo in any way. And if we can have these problems, more can- maybe many more.

So maybe stop discussing this in bad faith, and realize we are both trying to figure out problems that are very complex, and over our heads. You do not need to treat us like we are collectively insane while you yourself would fall into that same boat if we were to follow your line of reasoning.

Hello everyone, like all of you I suffer from this problem. I had posted here few months before and chief told me to check a fluorescent tube method to check emi level since I am very near a power line. I did try it it did not light up at all, guess it's not so bad after all.

I tried everything for about 3 years to fix this, was a hardcore cs go player. After 3 years of failure I could no longer keep up at the risk of going insane I sold my pc altogether and bought a ps4, been happy ever since. This issue does not seem to affect wireless input devices at least in my case. I can play online/offline games all day with wireless dual shock 4 and never notice any issues. I also started using wireless keyboard/mouse for general pc use ( I no longer use pc for gaming ). It's been working fine over 2 - 3 years for me.

Since cod warzone had keyboard/mouse support in ps4. I did recently tried my existing wired keyboard/gaming mouse and the problem is still there. After 30 or so minutes the input starts getting massively floaty, feeling like sliding on ice and I can no longer aim properly at all, since inputs are massively delayed. Next day or a fresh gaming session same thing repeats, mouse is only usable for about 30 minutes to an hour. I also bought a brand new gaming mouse just to test, it was completely fine for about 3 days and this issue started again. So, I am back to playing with wireless controller.

I want to try a wireless gaming mouse in future if I can find a budget one, that is only thing left to test for me or move house somewhere else in future and hope this issue is not there. Maybe the wireless solution can work for at least some of you. Thank you for reading and do reply me if you got any questions .