Blur Busters Forums

OLED seems to be better than both and they will release the higher refresh rate stuff soon. It already made its way into laptops.

Anonymous316387 wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2022, 15:19

1000WATT wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2022, 14:34

Anonymous316387 wrote: You can clearly see that without strobing stuff, the Asus TN is slightly better than the other IPS in 240hz ( the text is thinner on the TN 144hz )

Be patient, study this forum. And then you will know what details to pay attention to. When we compare test images.

Sorry i don't understand what do you mean but i've nothing to study actually about comparing test images.

You just tell me "don't mislead people" ( a little rude in fact... ) so you wanted proof, you have the proof here like you wanted, TN still the king apparently in 2022 for pure motion blur handling without strobing, you can if you want also learn more about that on Rtings*com and on this forum, a huge thanks for the answer, have a nice day.

I have some free time.

1000WATT wrote: Be patient, study this forum. And then you will know what details to pay attention to. When we compare test images.

I was wrong, it was stupid of me. Unfortunately, all the information on the forum is not structured in any way. There is no step by step guide from a to z.
I will try not to make such mistakes in the future. But since we started a dialogue, I will try to give you the necessary information myself.

Anonymous316387 wrote: and YES ! i found that very blurry ! it's not that bad when we see these images but in practice it's worst.

and i can take ALL IPS of the website, you clearly see that IPS have always a larger text on the logo, because in reality the "RTINGS" logo on their moving picture test are thin, generally, all TN always have a thinner text, so the ghosting and the persistence of the image are bigger on IPS ( and also VA, but i don't care about VA technology )

To begin with, let's take a video close to the rtings benchmark and cut out a piece for comparison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW1IUiVknwI

"rtings reference" "pg279qm 240" "vg248qe 144"

These are images for visualization. There is no precision in them! Most tn on the market except for professional photo editing monitors. They cannot convey red and other colors in the reference form.Especially in transitions 0-255.
Instead of R255 G0 B0 we get ~R225 G0 B0. The red becomes darker. These are panel errors.

The contrast between white R 255 G 255 B 255 and red R255 G0 B0 is lower than between white R 255 G 255 B 255 and burgundy R128 G0 B 0.
The image appears sharper and objects are easier to recognize when the contrast is higher. But it has nothing to do with motion blur.

With the help of a colorimeter and a color profile, you can easily transfer colors from vg248qe to pg279qm.
There is no problem to lower the value from R248 to R205. If this color suits you better.

Anonymous316387 wrote: all TN always have a thinner text

Next, I will try to show exactly where the blur occurs. But such a comparison method is not correct and should not be used to compare test images.
This is nothing more than a visualization. https://youtu.be/RyyBFZ2hBZM It should be very clear how blurry the text is. And why are the letters thin.

1000WATT wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2022, 12:14

Next, I will try to show exactly where the blur occurs. But such a comparison method is not correct and should not be used to compare tesNt images.
This is nothing more than a visualization. https://youtu.be/RyyBFZ2hBZM
5.jpg
It should be very clear how blurry the text is. And why are the letters thin.

Thank you for your excellent visualizations!

Being that said, once we're 240Hz-or-less, the venn diagram of IPS blur versus TN blur is overlapping.

For example, take the early AOC G2460PQU TN monitor, which has more GtG/motion blur than modern 240Hz IPS panels.

So while the best TN definitely still exceeds IPS (kudos to XL2566K), at 240Hz there are IPS with less GtG/TN blur than TN. There are situations where a specimen such as XG2431 exceeds the clarity of some earlier 240Hz BenQ TN panels.

In other words, the worst TN is blurrier than the best post-2020 IPS at the same Hz.

That being said, once we're talking about the new E-TN panels, all boxing gloves are off. The XL2566K is the clearest LCD I've seen, probably exceeding the 500Hz panel by a smidge.

Now, 240Hz OLED outshines 240Hz TN and 240Hz IPS in motion clarity...

For me TN is king because IPS strains my eyes. I've tried many different IPS monitors and the eye strain never went away.

1000WATT wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2022, 12:14

Anonymous316387 wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2022, 15:19

1000WATT wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2022, 14:34

Anonymous316387 wrote: You can clearly see that without strobing stuff, the Asus TN is slightly better than the other IPS in 240hz ( the text is thinner on the TN 144hz )

Be patient, study this forum. And then you will know what details to pay attention to. When we compare test images.

Sorry i don't understand what do you mean but i've nothing to study actually about comparing test images.

You just tell me "don't mislead people" ( a little rude in fact... ) so you wanted proof, you have the proof here like you wanted, TN still the king apparently in 2022 for pure motion blur handling without strobing, you can if you want also learn more about that on Rtings*com and on this forum, a huge thanks for the answer, have a nice day.

I have some free time.

1000WATT wrote: Be patient, study this forum. And then you will know what details to pay attention to. When we compare test images.

I was wrong, it was stupid of me. Unfortunately, all the information on the forum is not structured in any way. There is no step by step guide from a to z.
I will try not to make such mistakes in the future. But since we started a dialogue, I will try to give you the necessary information myself.

Anonymous316387 wrote: and YES ! i found that very blurry ! it's not that bad when we see these images but in practice it's worst.

and i can take ALL IPS of the website, you clearly see that IPS have always a larger text on the logo, because in reality the "RTINGS" logo on their moving picture test are thin, generally, all TN always have a thinner text, so the ghosting and the persistence of the image are bigger on IPS ( and also VA, but i don't care about VA technology )

To begin with, let's take a video close to the rtings benchmark and cut out a piece for comparison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW1IUiVknwI

"rtings reference" "pg279qm 240" "vg248qe 144"

These are images for visualization. There is no precision in them!
1.jpg

Most tn on the market except for professional photo editing monitors. They cannot convey red and other colors in the reference form.Especially in transitions 0-255.
Instead of R255 G0 B0 we get ~R225 G0 B0. The red becomes darker. These are panel errors.

The contrast between white R 255 G 255 B 255 and red R255 G0 B0 is lower than between white R 255 G 255 B 255 and burgundy R128 G0 B 0.
The image appears sharper and objects are easier to recognize when the contrast is higher. But it has nothing to do with motion blur.

With the help of a colorimeter and a color profile, you can easily transfer colors from vg248qe to pg279qm.
There is no problem to lower the value from R248 to R205. If this color suits you better.

Anonymous316387 wrote: all TN always have a thinner text

Next, I will try to show exactly where the blur occurs. But such a comparison method is not correct and should not be used to compare test images.
This is nothing more than a visualization. https://youtu.be/RyyBFZ2hBZM
5.jpg
It should be very clear how blurry the text is. And why are the letters thin.

Thank you it's interesting but I don't think it's very precise, if you want to know more ask Rtings and post their answers here, so in your opinion, Rtings are wrong to do the movement test on red 255 because the TN does not know make red in 255?
Do you know that some IPS don't get full colorimetry in red as well? Yet no IPS shows such a fine image.
Even if my formulation on the motion blur is not correct, the lowest response time does not mean that the motion blur will be better because indeed many parameters modify the perception of the motion blur, moreover they do not I don't think the Rtings tests are 100% consistent.
The elements that modify the perception are multiple such as:

- G-Sync / VRR (due to slow response time which varies from screen to screen)
- Overdrive settings (the overdrive settings are all different from one screen to another)
- Overshoot (visual issues that may appear more or less depending on the overdrive mode)
- Anti-reflective treatment (if the anti-reflective treatment is too grainy without a sharpness option, the blur will appear more visible, as on the HP X 27, invisible on the camera tests but visible with the human eye)
Etc

Although your element on the R-255 is correct I think we must have confirmation from Rtings, otherwise, according to you then, how do we know if a screen is less blurry than another?
Here you only demonstrate that in reality the fine text is due to an error of the TN, maybe, maybe not.
But in the end, how do you prove that this or that monitor is less blurry?
Don't tell me you're basing it on the response time please because btw that's not what it should be based on.
The TN today is still the best type of panel in terms of motion blur performance without strobing and without the headaches of recent IPS in Nano-IPS / QLED.

It's as if we were saying that the OLED was the best in motion blur, unfortunately not, in 60hz even in 120hz, in France "CapetLeVrai" was able to use a 120hz OLED with strobing against a BenQ XL2546K, he preferred the BenQ.
TN is preferable, all Esport players prefer TN and you will laugh but I also prefer TN for office compared to ips which gives me headaches and nausea.

And finally, on all the tests of the Discorz user table, we see that the ips never comes close, it's fine to do motion blur tests but if the camera is also not the same, it doesn't mean anything, even on the Optimum Tech Reviews, for example the XL2566K destroys everything on the mains, even OLED 60HZ, so yes, TN is still the kings, have a nice day.

wired41 wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022, 19:04

For me TN is king because IPS strains my eyes. I've tried many different IPS monitors and the eye strain never went away.

Same!
Can you please tell me what you have test?
I've this issue with all nano ips and all QLED IPS like Asus XG27AQM / MSI MAG274QRF-QD / Acer XV272UX.
Very boring...

This big answer is confusing. We talked about PG279QM 1440P IPS 240hz and VG248QE 1080p TN 144hz.
Here is your post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10279&start=10#p83952
Why are you introducing so many variables? You are trying to confuse me.

Anonymous316387 wrote: Don't tell me you're basing it on the response time please because btw that's not what it should be based on.

If blurring is not based on g2g response time + refresh rate, pardon the humble question: what do you think it's based on?

1000WATT wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2022, 20:45

This big answer is confusing. We talked about PG279QM 1440P IPS 240hz and VG248QE 1080p TN 144hz.
Here is your post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10279&start=10#p83952
Why are you introducing so many variables? You are trying to confuse me.

Anonymous316387 wrote: Don't tell me you're basing it on the response time please because btw that's not what it should be based on.

If blurring is not based on g2g response time + refresh rate, pardon the humble question: what do you think it's based on?

I know this debate can be rude sometimes but clearly how this can be confusing?
I'm trying to debate with you, i'm objective, Sorry if my arguments confuse you.

Variables can make some things different, it's important to understand that and it's a shame that you don't answer me for all question that i mentioned on the previous comment.

Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you just trying to be right in this debate without really helping me and this topic?

The fact are in front of my eyes all TN are clearly superior in terms of performance, I've never seen an IPS have the same motion blur performance ( even the PG279QM / XG27AQM / Acer XV272UX etc )

Excuse me but GtG are not the only thing to consider, you have a tons of things that can change the perception of the Motion Blur, i've mentioned that on the previous comment, just read it properly please.

For example, on Rtings website you can see that GtG doesn't mean your monitor will be less blurry, it's wrong to think that, otherwise why aren't 360hz ips less blurry than some slower TNs? Why are 60hz OLEDs blurrier than 240hz IPS? I eagerly await your response. , if you have a lot of questions about how monitors can switch to another colors and what is the exact test for the motion blur, you can talk with them, i'm not Rtings.

Oh and I take you at your word, I'm writing too big a text and yes, sorry, but it's not by putting over-saturated images on Photoshop with theoretical facts that will make your opinion more affirmative than mine, it's just theoretical, as long as that Rtings didn't approve anything, that doesn't mean anything. I thank you for your opinion but you have not yet demonstrated why the TN would not be better in motion blur, for the moment and for a long time the TN will be amply better. Like Refresh Compliance, TNs are more consistent at high Hertz.

Besides, you didn't even say how you arrived at this conclusion (how, by chance, did you know that they had to do that on Photoshop?), maybe your theoretical image on the R-255 didn't have nothing to have, anyway the TN images from the very top are clearly sharper even without taking into account the finer letters...

In conclusion, if you can't tell me (without believing yourself superior to the debate) why TNs are inferior to IPS, I can't argue with you, sorry guy but your comment are very rude sometimes and very , tried to be more gentle next time.

Anyway I've answer you, you too, end of the debate, and when i have talking about the two Asus it's just an example of what i see in front of my eyes in comparison in terms of motion blur.

I'm probably don't answer next time, anyway like you said "do not take me seriously" yes, It is what I am going to do.

Anonymous316387 wrote: I'm trying to debate with you, i'm objective, Sorry if my arguments confuse you.

This dialogue has slipped down to philosophy.
If objectivity is your personal opinion based on how exactly you perceive information. This is checkmate for me. I walk into the sunset in disgrace.

1000WATT wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2022, 18:19

Anonymous316387 wrote: I'm trying to debate with you, i'm objective, Sorry if my arguments confuse you.

This dialogue has slipped down to philosophy.
If objectivity is your personal opinion based on how exactly you perceive information. This is checkmate for me. I walk into the sunset in disgrace.

Thanks for confirming what I was saying.
My objectivity is not to get information out of nowhere, I think that the theory must be assumed instead of being affirmed as truth. The lucky stars are with me, although you have never wished me a good day, I tell you all the same, have a good day.