Blur Busters Forums

loccomacco wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 16:05

So it means it's not software related then, same issue in your phone too. Am I right?

Yes, most likely it is not related to the operating system. At the moment, I have been testing on win10, 11, win server 22, ubuntu (linux) and on a phone running android 10 (linux). Everywhere I observed the same feature.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 03:30

The moral of the story is that troubleshooting is a painful time drain, no matter the Who/What/When/Where/Why.

Rare/unusual problems will still exist. However, major course corrections are needed to save lots of wasted time when there's clear, more common alternate logical paths.

I bought a double conversion UPS and that was the end of my path down the EMI/RFI/transients path. Is it possible things to cross it? Sure... however even less likely then electricity being a problem in the first place, so I don't even consider it anymore.

This particular behavior seems to exists for me too, some people mention swapping DPI (this isn't the first time I've seen this), but I replug my mouse to different ports - unrelated to controller usage or having a dedicated port. It's just the act of moving the mouse around. I wonder if this relates to multiple devices pulling the device in the background and it messes them up for a bit.

F1zus wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 19:08

loccomacco wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 16:05

So it means it's not software related then, same issue in your phone too. Am I right?

Yes, most likely it is not related to the operating system. At the moment, I have been testing on win10, 11, win server 22, ubuntu (linux) and on a phone running android 10 (linux). Everywhere I observed the same feature.

Yeah operating system is a kind of software type, that was why I said as a whole type, it's not software related.
So you're another witness that proves it's not software related.
The reason I'm keep using these kind of words like witness and proof and evidence and such is because I think some of us from old users to 1 day users, who are struggling with the same symptoms, after all these years, still couldn't scratch or prove possible things, and still refuse to take these facts. I'm just trying to lead ourselves to a straight line.
So with the same symptoms, till now, I could scratch two possible things, with evidences in different topics:
1. It's not software related (ask f1zus).
2. It's not internet related (ask SKILLEN).
Of course we need more evidences to scratch things, but old members with the same symptoms, know that these 2 users are not the only ones, if you read all posts or search for it, you can easily find other evidences, I just don't have time to read all posts again to give you more evidences, do it yourself.

Oh what are all possible things?
1- Software related (including operating system, drivers, registery tweaks, different games and such. Of course some may change things, but we need something that remains).
2- Hardware related (including MnK, modem, monitor and such, again of course we need something that remains unchanged).
3- Bios related (we can put bios in software type, but it's better to separate them for good measurement, and again same as those 2, we need something that remains unchanged).
4- internet related (including ISP, game server, tick rate and such, and again same as others ...).
5- electricity related (including power grid, EMI, dirty electricity, bad wiring, devices like UPS, filters ... And such. And again same as others ...).

If I missed another types, correct me.
Some of these types may need to be more separated to different sections, but we can do it as a sub-type.

loccomacco wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 20:59

The reason I'm keep using these kind of words like witness and proof and evidence and such is because I think some of us from old users to 1 day users, who are struggling with the same symptoms, after all these years, still couldn't scratch or prove possible things, and still refuse to take these facts. I'm just trying to lead ourselves to a straight line.
So with the same symptoms, till now, I could scratch two possible things, with evidences in different topics:
1. It's not software related (ask f1zus).
2. It's not internet related (ask SKILLEN).

The thing you're referring to is caused by software, hardware, and internet. In the past, computers were being designed to run as fast as possible, now they're designed to run as efficiently as possible and speed (real-time responsiveness) isn't really considered critical anymore. In the past, we had slow PCs with full throttle turned on, now we have really powerful PCs that always want to use the minimal amount of throttle possible. This causes all kinds of issues when trying to achieve real-time responsiveness.

This particular mouse issue has been narrowed down to hardware by f1zus, as he was able to repeat the problem and solution on an unrelated system. Cycling through the dpi settings is similar to how many gamers unplug/plugin the mouse to reset it when it doesn't feel responsive. This potentially could be the same issue, which could narrow it down to either a USB flaw or a DPI selector flaw. I'm not sure how similar DPI design is among the mouse manufacturers, but I doubt they are as consistent as USB standards, so I would guess there is a problem somewhere in the USB design or at least in widespread implementation.

Assume for a moment that we found USB is flawed, or we found that DPI toggles have a common flaw across several brands. If that problem disappears overnight (which would be really great to see), we would still be running into a lot of other variables that make the floaty/inconsistent mouse problem from other hardware, software, and internet changes over the years. If you're still looking for the "one thing" that changed and can be reset back, there isn't one. In the last 10 years, hardware, software, and internet have gone through major changes, which continues as we speak.

imprecise wrote: ↑

16 Apr 2023, 14:22

loccomacco wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 20:59

The reason I'm keep using these kind of words like witness and proof and evidence and such is because I think some of us from old users to 1 day users, who are struggling with the same symptoms, after all these years, still couldn't scratch or prove possible things, and still refuse to take these facts. I'm just trying to lead ourselves to a straight line.
So with the same symptoms, till now, I could scratch two possible things, with evidences in different topics:
1. It's not software related (ask f1zus).
2. It's not internet related (ask SKILLEN).

The thing you're referring to is caused by software, hardware, and internet. In the past, computers were being designed to run as fast as possible, now they're designed to run as efficiently as possible and speed (real-time responsiveness) isn't really considered critical anymore. In the past, we had slow PCs with full throttle turned on, now we have really powerful PCs that always want to use the minimal amount of throttle possible. This causes all kinds of issues when trying to achieve real-time responsiveness.

This particular mouse issue has been narrowed down to hardware by f1zus, as he was able to repeat the problem and solution on an unrelated system. Cycling through the dpi settings is similar to how many gamers unplug/plugin the mouse to reset it when it doesn't feel responsive. This potentially could be the same issue, which could narrow it down to either a USB flaw or a DPI selector flaw. I'm not sure how similar DPI design is among the mouse manufacturers, but I doubt they are as consistent as USB standards, so I would guess there is a problem somewhere in the USB design or at least in widespread implementation.

Assume for a moment that we found USB is flawed, or we found that DPI toggles have a common flaw across several brands. If that problem disappears overnight (which would be really great to see), we would still be running into a lot of other variables that make the floaty/inconsistent mouse problem from other hardware, software, and internet changes over the years. If you're still looking for the "one thing" that changed and can be reset back, there isn't one. In the last 10 years, hardware, software, and internet have gone through major changes, which continues as we speak.

Uhhhh, now I see why we couldn't find a fix.

Please pay attention to that 's' I put in front of the symptom word. I'm not talking about only mouse feeling, I'm talking about all symptoms we have including mouse feeling even when nothing is connected except mouse even when not playing games, low quality and fps while everything is set to high and while it shows they're high in game, bad movement like that familiar HCB in RL, slower movement in all games, input delays, and so on, while there are none of them in some specific times of the day, and you can't do anything even if you change every single components of your PC.
Ok I just scratched all those three types you're talking about from the list, you are free to refuse believing it.
About hardware, I think I don't even have to prove it, because it's so obvious and people already changed every pieces of their hardware with no changes to the whole symptoms.
About internet and software, those 2 were just 2 examples, you can find more if you read all posts in this forum.

Another thing is can you explain me why I have same symptoms in my very very very old laptop same as PC? I can explain btw, but I'm not interested to because of reasons, but can you?

Another thing is, do you have same symptoms like us? If you don't, with all respects, can I ask you to please don't comment on these symptoms? Even the chief who is not interested anymore in EMI type, still can not get away with the fact that EMI can interfere with PC components. I'm not saying it's for sure electricity or EMI, I'm saying please don't speak with this much certainty about these symptoms when you even don't have them, even if you have, you should add all other possible types too.

Another thing is same f1zus guy, said in another topic that he fixed 90% of his problems by a UPS, can you explain this? Where is the actual place for UPS in those three types? Hardware? Software? Internet? Btw there are other posts that you can't put them too in any of of those three types.

Another thing is can you please please please next time when you claim about a thing, put at least one source of what you're claiming? Can you speak at least statistically?

Ok guys as imprecise is free to believe a thing or not, you are free too. But I just want to give you some things that at least in my opinion, there are lots of evidences and witnesses which changes those things to facts.
So until now I scratched hardware, software, internet from the list. 2 types remain, and both have evidences of their existence and effects in mitigating some or all those symptoms permanently, Thus we should focus only on these 2 types:
1- Bios
2- Electricity/EMI

loccomacco wrote: ↑

16 Apr 2023, 16:18

Another thing is can you explain me why I have same symptoms in my very very very old laptop same as PC? I can explain btw, but I'm not interested to because of reasons, but can you?

Probably, but you haven't provided enough info for me to help with that. It would take some time and troubleshooting to figure out.

loccomacco wrote: ↑

16 Apr 2023, 16:18

Another thing is, do you have same symptoms like us?

Yes, across multiple computers. I think 2017-2019 was the last time games seemed to "work right" for me, and it has a lot to do with changes in Windows. I bought 3 mid/top-tier computers since then and my old one still seems to work best. If I was still serious about competing I would be using my old gtx 1080 with Windows 7 or an older build of Windows 10 instead of my current system. This is actually a bit absurd, I wouldn't recommend a new PC to anyone unless something is broken.

loccomacco wrote: ↑

16 Apr 2023, 16:18

Another thing is same f1zus guy, said in another topic that he fixed 90% of his problems by a UPS, can you explain this? Where is the actual place for UPS in those three types? Hardware? Software? Internet? Btw there are other posts that you can't put them too in any of of those three types.

I'd be interested in that test where 90% improvement was discovered. It's possible the UPS helped in that situation, but the DPI issue in this thread is unrelated. For me, I noticed no difference with UPS and without it.

loccomacco wrote: ↑

16 Apr 2023, 16:18

Ok guys as imprecise is free to believe a thing or not, you are free too. But I just want to give you some things that at least in my opinion, there are lots of evidences and witnesses which changes those things to facts.
So until now I scratched hardware, software, internet from the list. 2 types remain, and both have evidences of their existence and effects in mitigating some or all those symptoms permanently, Thus we should focus only on these 2 types:
1- Bios
2- Electricity/EMI

I didn't deny anything you said, I was attempting to explain we won't be finding "one thing" that fixes the worn-out joystick feeling. Hardware, software, and internet all play a role and cannot be ignored. EMI could be a factor but is unlikely, there are even posts on here where people found no improvement when trying to eliminate EMI by going off-grid.

With best regards, I'm literally frustrated of some users in this forum, I'm tired so much, where is the diagnostic/recognition power in this world?
Maybe 'thatweirdinputlag' is right, it's better to limit interactions with this forum (his reason for limiting interactions is different than me).
So until the day I be able to give you my -one size fits 95%- fix, I'll limit my interactions too.

Good luck.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 01:33

Montilora wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2023, 21:17

Soon im gonna be moving pc to different places because im pretty sure its gotta be electricity and if its not ill honestly be so lost on what to do .

Nipping this in the bud -- this specific item isn't electricity related. Too much mis-blame about electricity here.

This known DPI-switch-and-back problem is generally caused by a bug in drivers / software stacks; a more correct solution is needed.

OS data and driver data is needed -- e.g. whether you are using the Microsoft driver or the vendor drivers, etc.

This is good to know! thank you. I apologize for late response i have not been on here in a while.

How would i check which drivers i am using

Montilora wrote: ↑

19 Apr 2023, 02:49

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

12 Apr 2023, 01:33

Montilora wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2023, 21:17

Soon im gonna be moving pc to different places because im pretty sure its gotta be electricity and if its not ill honestly be so lost on what to do .

Nipping this in the bud -- this specific item isn't electricity related. Too much mis-blame about electricity here.

This known DPI-switch-and-back problem is generally caused by a bug in drivers / software stacks; a more correct solution is needed.

OS data and driver data is needed -- e.g. whether you are using the Microsoft driver or the vendor drivers, etc.

This is good to know! thank you. I apologize for late response i have not been on here in a while.

How would i check which drivers i am using

any updates big bro :/

Mr1991 wrote: ↑

15 May 2024, 04:09

Electrical.

While there are electrical issues that interfere with this mouse, this isn't the problem with this specific thread and specific mouse.

Latency changes is a normal cause and effect of changing mouse DPI.

Just because sometimes it is electricity and sometimes it is not -- does not mean this specific original poster on this specific model of mouse is electrical related. Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not.

The fact is... there ARE non-electricity latency changes from changing mouse DPI. This is so much more common, that it's definitely incorrect to assume it's always electrical. I am a software developer, I make software, I have math understanding, and I understand why DPI changes can make lagfeel changes because you need to move a whole 1/dpi before the mouse will report. So when dpi=lower means a bigger time interval between polls, for a given mouse speed. Also, how fast you flick can also influence lag -- for example, moving only 1/4th of an inch (100/400ths of an inch) at 400dpi means you get only 100 mouse reports per second (1/100sec lag) instead of 400 mouse reports per second (1/400sec lag). So there's a LOT of variables, including dpi, mouse flick speed, smoothing algorithms, and other, that definitely add lag that are definitely NOT electrical related.

So please don't post misinformation that DPI-related lag issues are always electrical related.

Please post a new thread in the Electrical forum, this is not the electrical-related lag issues forum -- use the other forum for that.