Blur Busters Forums

Did you test the old machine after you noticed the new one wasn’t performing as expected.

Random thought, as some countries use 50hz and others use 60hz, what would be the effect if any if you were to buy hardware from an overseas manufacturer designed to run and tested on their hz and not the country it’s being ordered to.

E.g. my country uses 60hz and I buy parts from a 50hz country.

Vocaleyes wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2024, 19:13

Did you test the old machine after you noticed the new one wasn’t performing as expected.

Random thought, as some countries use 50hz and others use 60hz, what would be the effect if any if you were to buy hardware from an overseas manufacturer designed to run and tested on their hz and not the country it’s being ordered to.

E.g. my country uses 60hz and I buy parts from a 50hz country.

Yes I did test the old machine after noticing it, switching PCs back and forth trying to understand what was going on, did it around 5 times. My old PC felt normal, crispy, 1:1, and the new pc felt delayed, floaty, emulated, way too smooth, etc... Even the keyboard. Tested on aimtraininers and my scores were better by not so much on the older PC so I thought maybe it was just a matter of getting used to a new setup at the time.

I wish there was somehow we could measure this shit, because how can we seek help if it's just based on how we "feel" the mouse? How can we measure mouse floatiness? Gameplay videos aren't enough evidence, we need some numbers...

(As to this Hz thing, I don't know much about this stuff and it's the first time I heard about that, Brazil and USA has 60hz so I doubt this would be the reason, but who knows.)

Hello, I had an old computer with a Gigabyte motherboard, where I adjusted the RAM timings—it was DDR3—and also tweaked the Wi-Fi settings. I reduced the transfer speed somehow, and that actually stopped the floaty movement of my mouse. However, in CS
, other players sometimes saw me moving in a stuttering way, but the mouse movement on my end was noticeably good.

giggio10 wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 13:13

I wish there was somehow we could measure this shit, because how can we seek help if it's just based on how we "feel" the mouse? How can we measure mouse floatiness? Gameplay videos aren't enough evidence, we need some numbers...

There is a way.
You just need same monitor/same monitor model used for two setups.
1) You take 1000fps camera and find a way to setup it consistently between two setups.
2) Prepare scenario in one game where you can have same scenario played with least variance in displayed animations
3) Find a way to emulate your inputs - arduino will be cheapest one. With chatgpt it is triviarly easy now to prepare code.
You will need LED diode to know where scenario is starting to sync it later.
4) Prepare 1000fps camera and start scenario on first computer - repeat it 10 times or more - depending how accurate you want to be to see how big variation can be
5) Now switch to second computer and recording it same way.
6) Now when you have recordings for two systems you can convert video recording to images (1 image is 1 frame)
Using images from first system you calculate variance in pixel difference (%) between each corresponding frame
Now you have baseline with known variance for first system
7) You calculate variance for images from second system
8) You compare variance. If it is higher than from first system, you know something is wrong on this system.

Of course both systems need to be as close as possible in displayed image setup and camera would have to be in same spot and lighting would have to be the same.
Not easy, but doable.

giggio10 wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 13:13

Vocaleyes wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2024, 19:13

Did you test the old machine after you noticed the new one wasn’t performing as expected.

Random thought, as some countries use 50hz and others use 60hz, what would be the effect if any if you were to buy hardware from an overseas manufacturer designed to run and tested on their hz and not the country it’s being ordered to.

E.g. my country uses 60hz and I buy parts from a 50hz country.

Yes I did test the old machine after noticing it, switching PCs back and forth trying to understand what was going on, did it around 5 times. My old PC felt normal, crispy, 1:1, and the new pc felt delayed, floaty, emulated, way too smooth, etc... Even the keyboard. Tested on aimtraininers and my scores were better by not so much on the older PC so I thought maybe it was just a matter of getting used to a new setup at the time.

I wish there was somehow we could measure this shit, because how can we seek help if it's just based on how we "feel" the mouse? How can we measure mouse floatiness? Gameplay videos aren't enough evidence, we need some numbers...

(As to this Hz thing, I don't know much about this stuff and it's the first time I heard about that, Brazil and USA has 60hz so I doubt this would be the reason, but who knows.)

You wouldn’t happen to know both those mobo makes and models would you?

Vocaleyes wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 22:00

giggio10 wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 13:13

Vocaleyes wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2024, 19:13

Did you test the old machine after you noticed the new one wasn’t performing as expected.

Random thought, as some countries use 50hz and others use 60hz, what would be the effect if any if you were to buy hardware from an overseas manufacturer designed to run and tested on their hz and not the country it’s being ordered to.

E.g. my country uses 60hz and I buy parts from a 50hz country.

Yes I did test the old machine after noticing it, switching PCs back and forth trying to understand what was going on, did it around 5 times. My old PC felt normal, crispy, 1:1, and the new pc felt delayed, floaty, emulated, way too smooth, etc... Even the keyboard. Tested on aimtraininers and my scores were better by not so much on the older PC so I thought maybe it was just a matter of getting used to a new setup at the time.

I wish there was somehow we could measure this shit, because how can we seek help if it's just based on how we "feel" the mouse? How can we measure mouse floatiness? Gameplay videos aren't enough evidence, we need some numbers...

(As to this Hz thing, I don't know much about this stuff and it's the first time I heard about that, Brazil and USA has 60hz so I doubt this would be the reason, but who knows.)

You wouldn’t happen to know both those mobo makes and models would you?

Yes I do it's on the main post unless you're asking for something else, but it's:
Old pc (No issue): GA-H270M-Gaming 3 (Gigabyte), i5 7400, 1060 6gb EVGA superclocked
New PC: H410m-E (Asus), i7 10700, 3060ti Eagle OC 8gb

dervu wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 18:05

giggio10 wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 13:13

I wish there was somehow we could measure this shit, because how can we seek help if it's just based on how we "feel" the mouse? How can we measure mouse floatiness? Gameplay videos aren't enough evidence, we need some numbers...

There is a way.
You just need same monitor/same monitor model used for two setups.
1) You take 1000fps camera and find a way to setup it consistently between two setups.
2) Prepare scenario in one game where you can have same scenario played with least variance in displayed animations
3) Find a way to emulate your inputs - arduino will be cheapest one. With chatgpt it is triviarly easy now to prepare code.
You will need LED diode to know where scenario is starting to sync it later.
4) Prepare 1000fps camera and start scenario on first computer - repeat it 10 times or more - depending how accurate you want to be to see how big variation can be
5) Now switch to second computer and recording it same way.
6) Now when you have recordings for two systems you can convert video recording to images (1 image is 1 frame)
Using images from first system you calculate variance in pixel difference (%) between each corresponding frame
Now you have baseline with known variance for first system
7) You calculate variance for images from second system
8) You compare variance. If it is higher than from first system, you know something is wrong on this system.

Of course both systems need to be as close as possible in displayed image setup and camera would have to be in same spot and lighting would have to be the same.
Not easy, but doable.

I don't have the old pc anymore, if I had I'd just play on it to not have to worry with that

dervu wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 18:05

giggio10 wrote: ↑

01 Nov 2024, 13:13

I wish there was somehow we could measure this shit, because how can we seek help if it's just based on how we "feel" the mouse? How can we measure mouse floatiness? Gameplay videos aren't enough evidence, we need some numbers...

There is a way.
You just need same monitor/same monitor model used for two setups.
1) You take 1000fps camera and find a way to setup it consistently between two setups.
2) Prepare scenario in one game where you can have same scenario played with least variance in displayed animations
3) Find a way to emulate your inputs - arduino will be cheapest one. With chatgpt it is triviarly easy now to prepare code.
You will need LED diode to know where scenario is starting to sync it later.
4) Prepare 1000fps camera and start scenario on first computer - repeat it 10 times or more - depending how accurate you want to be to see how big variation can be
5) Now switch to second computer and recording it same way.
6) Now when you have recordings for two systems you can convert video recording to images (1 image is 1 frame)
Using images from first system you calculate variance in pixel difference (%) between each corresponding frame
Now you have baseline with known variance for first system
7) You calculate variance for images from second system
8) You compare variance. If it is higher than from first system, you know something is wrong on this system.

Of course both systems need to be as close as possible in displayed image setup and camera would have to be in same spot and lighting would have to be the same.
Not easy, but doable.

I think what I did here is enough, what do you think? viewtopic.php?f=24&t=12561#p98416

I mean not enough to have like a scientific proof but enough for people who play games and know what input lag is, I can do this same test irl with someone with lower interference and it would be possible to see the difference, in my opinion we don't even need 1000fps camera for that but idk for other people, so if you don't mind sharing your opinion about it

Guys I have a very curious and weird finding:
(Just to make things clearer - 2017 PC = Good. 2020 PC = Lag/Floaty)

I went to a Gaming House yesterday, and it did feel more instant and consistent, so I thought hm, maybe what I have on my 2020 PC is just input lag, that although better than my 2017 PC in specs and FPS it still suffers from lag, prehaps due to some sort of incompatibility or manufacturing issue.

But then I figured this method of testing using drawings, I know it's not very reliable for a number of factors, but it is what I have. The test came from the fact that I used to play a drawing game on my 2017 PC, and it was very easy to draw. Then on my 2020 PC it is super hard to do so, feels unprecise, slow and all that.

The first image is from the Gaming House PC, and the other is from my 2020 PC:




Both were done in a fast manner, just going with the flow, think of how signatures are made, that's how I drew them. If it was done very slowly both would look the same, it's easy to be precise when you go slow. It's the same when it comes to aiming but you can't afford to go slow all the time in online FPS games, and it gets way worse when the target is moving... If I someday end up redoing that test I'll record it to analyze better, the idea came up on the fly.

Could this be caused solely by input lag or just that isn't enough to cause that amount of unprecision is what I'm wondering now...

giggio10 wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2024, 16:05

Guys I have a very curious and weird finding:
(Just to make things clearer - 2017 PC = Good. 2020 PC = Lag/Floaty)

I went to a Gaming House yesterday, and it did feel more instant and consistent, so I thought hm, maybe what I have on my 2020 PC is just input lag, that although better than my 2017 PC in specs and FPS it still suffers from lag, prehaps due to some sort of incompatibility or manufacturing issue.

But then I figured this method of testing using drawings, I know it's not very reliable for a number of factors, but it is what I have. The test came from the fact that I used to play a drawing game on my 2017 PC, and it was very easy to draw. Then on my 2020 PC it is super hard to do so, feels unprecise, slow and all that.

The first image is from the Gaming House PC, and the other is from my 2020 PC:




Both were done in a fast manner, just going with the flow, think of how signatures are made, that's how I drew them. If it was done very slowly both would look the same, it's easy to be precise when you go slow. It's the same when it comes to aiming but you can't afford to go slow all the time in online FPS games, and it gets way worse when the target is moving... If I someday end up redoing that test I'll record it to analyze better, the idea came up on the fly.

Could this be caused solely by input lag or just that isn't enough to cause that amount of unprecision is what I'm wondering now...

Ah ok, so looks like you have my issue. Can go by lots of names like drift, icy, floaty, acceleration despite EPP disabled. But after talking to a Microsoft engineer about it a while ago, realised it's more like 'mouse coordinate accumulation'.
To clarify, next are my interpretations of that and not what the engineer said, he simply provided the tool to test to establish whether this was a windows issue or not. In the end we concluded it's not.

Side to side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQCOiNo ... Xm&index=8

Circular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2KIq5W ... Xm&index=5

That's what it looks like, cursor will move over time when in motion making it imprecise due to the accumulated coordinates as you can see in the second example, more negative value on the x axis compared to the y.

It's also much more obvious to observe the effect when drawing circles, for me repeatedly moving the physical mouse clockwise means the cursor will drift to the bottom right after a few (10-15) circles, whereas counter-clockwise results in the opposite effect and goes to the top right.

Since windows has been ruled out as the cause, leaves a few options behind as to why this is happening on some machines and others not. Can only speculate what the actual culprit is right now, so the fact you can produce both results on 2 separate machines right now is extremely valuable information for figuring out why this is happening. The more examples produced, the easier to find a common denominator.

Could you try the circle test on the gaming house PC and on the affected PC to further confirm.
I've also been thinking that this could be a CPU vs chipset handled USB issue, but looking at the examples of mobo's you provided neither of them have CPU handled USB ports, which debunks that theory if so. Although, one of the boards does have 2 USB controllers as opposed to 1, so maybe it's possible that so long as there's 2 controllers handling USB's this mitigates the issue, or could be a certain type of USB controller isn't working correctly, whereas the second asmedia USB controller is working as intended?

Would need to see how you get on drawing repeated circles to just really confirm that one machine is exhibiting the issue while the other isn't if that's ok.