Blur Busters Forums

Avean wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 15:15

Strange nVIDIA dont enable V-Sync by default when G-Sync is enabled? They advertise so heavily for a tear free experience with G-Sync but i doubt many users know about this. They have learned the past 10-years that V-Sync is "bad"

The "V-SYNC when used with G-SYNC" issue has been the bane of my existence for years now in regards to trying to explain it to novices. I'm aware Nvidia can't change the "V-SYNC" label for in-game options, but you think they could conditionally change the label to something more accurate in the NVCP when G-SYNC is enabled.

But then the issue is, G-SYNC effectively IS V-SYNC when the framerate is above the refresh rate, whereas the V-SYNC option is only part of G-SYNC operation (and not traditional V-SYNC) when the framerate is within the refresh rate, so it's an extremely difficult thing to clarify, even if Nvidia attempted it.

Bottom line is, with G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on, V-SYNC = G-SYNC within the refresh rate, and G-SYNC = V-SYNC outside the refresh rate.

Avean wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 15:15

I am reaching 300fps on the new Valorant game and if im not hallucinating i actually see the tearing when i remove fps limiter and turn off v-sync. Its very small but if i move quckly left and right i can see some edges break off slightly. Atleast i think so.

Depends on your max native refresh rate; the higher the refresh rate and the higher the framerate is above that refresh rate, the less noticeable tearing becomes. Once we ultimately reach 1000Hz displays, G-SYNC (or any form of sync) effectively won't be needed.

Avean wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 15:15

Im usually using the NVCP fps limiter with V-Sync on but i didnt know i should enable Ultra Low Latency as well. Any situations you dont want it on or should be on any situations? I thought it was for only GPU bound situations.

My suggestion is LLM "On" not "Ultra" with G-SYNC (as the only known difference between the two is the former doesn't have an auto FPS cap, and the latter does), and yes, both only really help for GPU bound scenarios. It's just a blanket recommendation in the cases where your framerate can't reach your cap (which usually means your GPU is maxed).

jorimt wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 16:35

Depends on your max native refresh rate; the higher the refresh rate and the higher the framerate is above that refresh rate, the less noticeable tearing becomes. Once we ultimately reach 1000Hz displays, G-SYNC (or any form of sync) effectively won't be needed.

It's interesting that the invention of the various sync technologies are all primary because of the finiteness of refresh rate. As displays reach extremely high refresh rates, the latencies and appearance of VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, G-SYNC all converge towards 0 (i.e. virtual identical latency).

1000Hz effectively behaves as defacto per-pixel VRR that also simultaneously strobeless ULMB. Even 1000Hz is not necessarily an end goal, but for a gaming monitor -- it is practically very near retina refresh rate for 1080p at desktop sizes and FOV (see Vicious Cycle Effect for some situations where 1000 Hz will not be enough to be a "retina refresh rate" -- such as 180-degree FOV VR using a theoretical retina display)

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 20:44

Even 1000Hz is not necessarily an end goal

Agreed; once we reach mainstream 1000Hz, there's no reason not to continue beyond that, where possible, regardless of the device. The ultimately goal is 1:1 (or perhaps better) response between human and interface, after all. Alas, compensatory solutions will remain necessary in the meantime.

jorimt wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 21:47

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

24 Apr 2020, 20:44

Even 1000Hz is not necessarily an end goal

Agreed; once we reach mainstream 1000Hz, there's no reason not to continue beyond that, where possible, regardless of the device. The ultimately goal is 1:1 (or perhaps better) response between human and interface, after all. Alas, compensatory solutions will remain necessary in the meantime.

Especially if a panel technology (MicroLED) makes the cost difference between 1000Hz and 2000Hz only a few dollars in year 2050.

Even today, I can tell apart MPRT 0.5ms versus MPRT 1.0ms using ULMB Pulse Width setting on fast scrolling (3000 pixels/second), which is visible on desktop formats. Witness those LightBoost 10% lovers — that’s pickiness of MPRT 1ms vs MPRT 2ms.

Much like 4K was $20,000 long ago, but now a $299 Walmart TV special. Even 1080p was the same. And look at what happened to retina phone resolutions. Ultra-Hz won’t be pricey forever in humankind.

We’ll have to cross the bridge when we get there...

A question? what changes from null on to null off with gsync+fps limit+vsync on i have already pre rendered frames to 1?

What happens if i gsync+fps limit+vsync on+low latency ultra?

My frame time with gsync+vsync on+low latency ultra is 7.2 ms and doesn't move with 138 fps, why if i limit fps and disable ultra low latency and so i go with gsync+ vsync on + 141 fps limit the frametime fluctuate between 5 and 8 without being stable to 7.2 ms? (framerate is stable at 141 and doesn't change)

PeppexITA wrote: ↑

27 Apr 2020, 16:03

A question? what changes from null on to null off with gsync+fps limit+vsync on i have already pre rendered frames to 1?

Effectively nothing.

PeppexITA wrote: ↑

27 Apr 2020, 17:15

What happens if i gsync+fps limit+vsync on+low latency ultra?

Ultra with G-SYNC is MPRF "1" + auto FPS cap. at 144Hz, it limits to ~138 FPS, so if you have an in-game or RTSS cap set to 141 FPS, the Ultra cap will override them.

PeppexITA wrote: ↑

27 Apr 2020, 17:31

My frame time with gsync+vsync on+low latency ultra is 7.2 ms and doesn't move with 138 fps, why if i limit fps and disable ultra low latency and so i go with gsync+ vsync on + 141 fps limit the frametime fluctuate between 5 and 8 without being stable to 7.2 ms? (framerate is stable at 141 and doesn't change)

The RTSS and Nvidia limiters cap by frametime, whereas in-game limiters don't, but that's part of what makes in-game limiters have less lag. G-SYNC can easily compensate for minor frametime fluctuations FYI, so use what you prefer.

btw, the fps limit for apex legends its better use 141 or 142?

PeppexITA wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2020, 07:27

btw, the fps limit for apex legends its better use 141 or 142?

Anything at or under 142 FPS @144Hz is typically fine.