Blur Busters Forums

sheepdog16 wrote:That is awesome to hear Chief! Just one last quick question: How does Ghosting/Crosstalk fare in the ULMB mode with the VG248QE Monitor with the G-Sync Module? Are there vivid variety levels of ghosting or crosstalking at 85Hz/100Hz/120Hz?

ULMB has slightly more crosstalk than LightBoost on the same monitor, but the colors are much better than LightBoost. However, ULMB persistence is not adjustable at the moment. But BENQ Blur Reduction is far more flexible, to become brighter or clearer, while still having better colors, especially with the large Vertical Total tweaks on the BENQ Z-Series.

c0re wrote:

masterotaku wrote: And yes, it doesn't affect ghosting, only crosstalk.

So what is it crosstalk if it's not ghosting?

They're really essentially the same thing: Crosstalk is actually a form of ghosting, and ghosting during strobing (multi-image effects) is crosstalk. So the distinction is a bit fuzzy. Multi-image ghosting during strobe backlight use is what Blur Busters now call "strobe crosstalk". Blur Busters coined the phrase "strobe crosstalk" as the simple description to describe the top-edge-of-screen/bottom-edge-of-screen artifacts found in most strobe backlight monitors (unusually amplified in Version 1 BENQ Z-Series), since it's caused by incomplete GtG transitions that are still unfinished when the strobe backlight flashes (high speed video of LightBoost blur reduction strobe backlight).

This is very similar to 3D crosstalk where there is a faint double-image effect (mostly caused by incomplete GtG pixel transitions leaking from one eye to the other), but is also witnessed during fast 2D motion with strobe backlights as a chasing double-image ghost effect, where the ghost image is crystal sharp rather than motion-blurred from high persistence.

On some monitors, there is no visible strobe crosstalk for the center of the screen (GtG was fast enough and complete enough between strobes) and you've got virtually perfect CRT clarity motion. But this is not true for all models of all brands of strobe backlights, and sometimes you get rather severe compromises (e.g. very low contrast ratio) in order to completely eliminate the strobe crosstalk.

TL;DR: Strobe crosstalk is simply non-motion-blurred ghosting. Crystal-sharp ghosts chasing behind motion. So they mean essentially the same thing during strobe backlight operation. "strobe crosstalk" is used around here more often now when the ghosting becomes so severe that the double-image effect is rather intense.

UPDATE: Here is more pics. These are pics of me using an ASUS VG248QE in Lightboost @ 10% with the contrast being at 48 in the monitor OSD.

ONE QUICK NOTE: These photos serve the purpose of showing ghosting/crosstalking at various parts of the screen (Top, Middle, Bottom) for the VG248QE monitor, in comparision to my recently reviewed pics of my XL2411Z. [*SPOILER ALERT:* It's much better than my Xl2411Z]



Here is the VG248QE at the TOP of the screen.

http://imgur.com/TUZT440,3UNuhAZ#1
http://imgur.com/TUZT440,3UNuhAZ#0


Here is the VG248QE at the MIDDLE of the screen.

http://imgur.com/uag0QWC,TLNtfJO#1
http://imgur.com/uag0QWC,TLNtfJO#0

Finally, here is the VG248QE at the BOTTOM of the screen. A little bit of crosstalking/overdrive effects can be seen, but not much.

http://imgur.com/n1PbzI0


Overall, the crosstalking in my mind is MUCH BETTER than the XL2411Z; however, the colors are still abit washed out and tinted, but not as bad as I last recalled. Gaming with the VG248QE is much less distracting, and I can't even see any sort of crosstalking/ghosting while playing BF4, TF2, BLOPS 2, or Titanfall (WHICH FINALLY HAS UNLOCKED FPS UP TO 144 FPS. It caps at whatever your Refresh rate is, which I LOVE!! Now all they need is some SLI/Crossfire profiles!!).



This post will be put in my OP. Hope this whole review and analysis has been helpful so far!

(This post will be posted in the OP)

UPDATE 2: Here is more pics of the VG248QE strobing, except this time with ULMB Mode (I personally moded the monitor with the G-Sync Module).

NOTE: Again, this is to serve the purpose of comparing Ghosting/Crosstalking/Overdrive effects to other strobing methods that I have done. So far, this is my third strobing method that I have tried. Also, since G-Sync & ULMB can have calibrated colors (Thanks to SoftMCS), the settings are: 120Hz ULMB Strobing, 100% Brightness, 84% Contrast, and RGB of 96 96 88).


Now, onto the pics!
Here is 1 pic of the TOP of the screen. Hardly any sort of Overdrive effect/Ghosting
http://imgur.com/jtLGtmT

Here is 2 pics of the MIDDLE of the screen. ESSENTIALLY NO GHOSTING/OVERDRIVE
http://imgur.com/9KeONwa,1axEUtb#0
http://imgur.com/9KeONwa,1axEUtb#1

Finally, here is 1 pic of the BOTTOM of the screen. Unfortunately, the overdrive effects are noticable However, because they are towards the bottom of the screen, I don't even see them during any sort of game that I play since I always keep my eyes centered most of the time, which is still fantastic!
http://imgur.com/MAUMKGz

Overall, I am quite impressed that using ULMB produces similar results to LIGHTBOOST in terms of the ghosting/crosstalking/overdrive effects (albeit, the bottom of the screen wasn't too good, again, it's not even noticable during gameplay). It is also really awesome that the colors are now great for ULMB thanks to SoftMCS that allows Color Calibration for both ULMB and G-Sync modes! The colors are abit better in my eyes than the XL2411Z I did own.
It is abit unfortunate though that the persistance level cannot be varied like the Z-Series of monitors from BENQ or LIGHTBOOST in order to have a more vibrant/bright screen or crisper motion (I prefer crisper motion). However, having the ability to do G-sync OR ULMB are nice options to have. I've briefly tried out G-Sync in a few games (Black Flag and Titanfall), and it works quite well. Now, people have already said that G-Sync cannot fix In-Game or Game Engine stutters, which holds true to my experience. So as of UPDATE #2, I am currently rocking out with a G-Sync Modded ASUS VG248QE!

If I had to put the ULMB in a bucket in terms of its ghosting/crosstalking/overdrive effects, I would say that it is in between the XL2411Z's Blur Reduction and VG248QE's LIGHTBOOST (closer towards LIGHTBOOST, especially when it comes to the TOP and MIDDLE of the screen).

Again, I hope that my entire analysis of various strobing methods (Benq XL2411Z Blur Reduction, VG248QE 10% LIGHTBOOST, and now VG248QE ULMB) has been very helpful, as I have had an awesome time comparing them!!!

sheepdog16 wrote:Again, I hope that my entire analysis of various strobing methods (Benq XL2411Z Blur Reduction, VG248QE 10% LIGHTBOOST, and now VG248QE ULMB) has been very helpful, as I have had an awesome time comparing them!!!

Good work!
You are one of the few people in the world (myself included) to witness the strobe crosstalk differences of LightBoost vs ULMB vs BENQ BR.

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Good work!
You are one of the few people in the world (myself included) to witness the strobe crosstalk differences of LightBoost vs ULMB vs BENQ BR.

Thanks Chief!

I did have a great time comparing the strobing methods and each of their pros/cons to each other. At the end of it all (at least with the 3 I've done so far), ULMB is the best mode out there; in spite of the fact that persistence cannot be adjusted atm. It has very little crosstalk with a little decrease in contrast (the other 2 modes, Blur Reduction and Lightboost, did not change too much in terms of crosstalk with the contrast decrease). ULMB also has good colors that can be ADJUSTED (Hallelujah! ), and G-Sync is another mode that exists along side ULMB (but not at the same time).

Thanks for this review. After using the XL2411Z for a couple of days I gotta say that the trailing/ghosting is indeed very distracting to me as well. It makes me feel like the clear motion is lost amidst all the ghosting. If I'm not using Blur Reduction, turning off AMA helps a lot but AMA is automatically activated when Blur Reduction is on and having clear motion is the whole point I got this monitor in the first place. After calibrating the monitor the colors are pretty decent, just a bit washed out. It's too bad about all the ghosting.

I think I might return my XL2411Z (which I received 2 days ago) and get a VG248QE + G-Sync upgrade kit.

Do you guys think this is a good idea at this point? Getting the G-sync upgrade kit will cost me about $235 with shipping, so the whole setup will total about $515 + any restocking fee from returning the BenQ.

I know the ASUS Rog monitor is coming out in July but it's going to be $700+, plus I would rather keep the resolution at 1080p or 1200p since pushing 100+ fps at 2K will be much more difficult (I have a single GTX 780 Classified). Other than the Asus Rog I don't know of any other G-sync monitor coming out in the near future.

MakubeX wrote:AMA is automatically activated when Blur Reduction is on

No. If AMA is off, when you enable MBR it's still off. You get ghosting instead of overdrive artifacts. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse.

MakubeX wrote: Do you guys think this is a good idea at this point? Getting the G-sync upgrade kit will cost me about $235 with shipping, so the whole setup will total about $515 + any restocking fee from returning the BenQ.

In my opinion it isn't a good idea. You can't get the fexibility of MBR anywhere else, and you can also use Lightboost in these BenQ monitors. Quoting myself from another thread: "Added 121Hz. It seems like some VT makes the monitor switch to Lightboost automatically. It's around 1150 and 1160 VT, for example". I made Lightboost work automatically at 99Hz and 121Hz by using a specific Vertical Total. I don't know if you previously need to unlock Lightboost with a 3D Vision kit, that's why I asked people to try it (and no one did it yet, it seems).

So switching to the VG248QE you gain G-Sync, lose money and lose the flexibility of MBR (strobed 60Hz in fighting games, for example).

masterotaku wrote:

MakubeX wrote:AMA is automatically activated when Blur Reduction is on

No. If AMA is off, when you enable MBR it's still off. You get ghosting instead of overdrive artifacts. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse.

Oh, I thought that when Chief said "the AMA setting will automatically reset to settings optimized for BENQ Blur Reduction" he meant that it's automatically turned on and set to a specific setting for Blur Reduction. This is from your thread: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic ... +ama#p4947

masterotaku wrote:

MakubeX wrote: Do you guys think this is a good idea at this point? Getting the G-sync upgrade kit will cost me about $235 with shipping, so the whole setup will total about $515 + any restocking fee from returning the BenQ.

In my opinion it isn't a good idea. You can't get the fexibility of MBR anywhere else, and you can also use Lightboost in these BenQ monitors. Quoting myself from another thread: "Added 121Hz. It seems like some VT makes the monitor switch to Lightboost automatically. It's around 1150 and 1160 VT, for example". I made Lightboost work automatically at 99Hz and 121Hz by using a specific Vertical Total. I don't know if you previously need to unlock Lightboost with a 3D Vision kit, that's why I asked people to try it (and no one did it yet, it seems).

So switching to the VG248QE you gain G-Sync, lose money and lose the flexibility of MBR (strobed 60Hz in fighting games, for example).

True, but I know 99% of the time I won't change my settings after I find the sweet spot, and even if I do, no setting so far has made the excessive ghosting with Blur Reduction on go away. I would love to keep the XL2411Z, but unless there's a way to keep blur reduction and significantly reduce the ghosting/crosstalk I don't see it happening.

I guess my question about "being a good idea" is mostly directed about getting the VG248QE + G-Sync combo or wait for something else (that's not $800).

Thanks for the feedback.

masterotaku wrote:I don't know if you previously need to unlock Lightboost with a 3D Vision kit, that's why I asked people to try it (and no one did it yet, it seems).

On all LightBoost monitors, you need to unlock LightBoost with either 3D Vision or Strobelight (though Strobelight is not Z-Series compatible). Once unlocked, just changing the VT works to enable/disable LightBoost.

For readers who don't know, LightBoost initialization uses a 2-step process: A one-time initialization (unlock) that lasts until the monitor is unplugged from power, and then doing changes to timings (Vertical Total) to turn it on/off.

ToastyX automates this on the non Z-Series monitors.
For Z-Series, LightBoost is unnecessary if you stick to BENQ BR and Blur Busters Strobe Utility. (unless you really need lower strobe crosstalk in exchange for worse color quality)