Blur Busters Forums

espresso wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2022, 15:37

Wayzer wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2022, 11:11

Has anyone experienced this? Because it driving me crazy, I dont have that real heavy input delay that I had before, but its still annoying because I know how I should feel this input delay when I'm alt-tabbing.
if anyone has any advice please let me know!

You know i read your post about a month ago and immediately called it Placebo.

2 days ago i accidental pressed windows key while in game and then BOOOOOM best game in ages.

This just dosent make any sense at all, but it works

I think this may have been a sudden change from double buffering to low-latency triple buffering. The way the sync technology automatically switches when Windows key is pressed. Sometimes the original sync technology wasn't the Right Tool For The Right Job...

Sync technologies are complex, and can go far beyond just VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, VRR, etc. And buffer layers (double buffer, triple buffer, max queue depth, etc). There's complex algorithms in drivers and in third parties such as Fast Sync, Enhanced Sync, RTSS Scanline Sync, Special-K Latent Sync.

And the Windows key often switches from FSE to DWM, and sometimes the sync technology currently configured for DWM is (occasionally) superior to the sync technology during FSE. Usually it is worse, but sometimes it's better.

Even VSYNC OFF ends up having unanticipated side effects.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2022, 15:52

espresso wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2022, 15:37

Wayzer wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2022, 11:11

Has anyone experienced this? Because it driving me crazy, I dont have that real heavy input delay that I had before, but its still annoying because I know how I should feel this input delay when I'm alt-tabbing.
if anyone has any advice please let me know!

You know i read your post about a month ago and immediately called it Placebo.

2 days ago i accidental pressed windows key while in game and then BOOOOOM best game in ages.

This just dosent make any sense at all, but it works

I think this may have been a sudden change from double buffering to low-latency triple buffering. The way the sync technology automatically switches when Windows key is pressed. Sometimes the original sync technology wasn't the Right Tool For The Right Job...

Sync technologies are complex, and can go far beyond just VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, VRR, etc. And buffer layers (double buffer, triple buffer, max queue depth, etc). There's complex algorithms in drivers and in third parties such as Fast Sync, Enhanced Sync, RTSS Scanline Sync, Special-K Latent Sync.

And the Windows key often switches from FSE to DWM, and sometimes the sync technology currently configured for DWM is (occasionally) superior to the sync technology during FSE. Usually it is worse, but sometimes it's better.

Even VSYNC OFF ends up having unanticipated side effects.

Chief so do we know any fix for this? My game gets better for few seconds again after alt tabbing into the game after being idle for few minutes. No online solutions has fixed it for me so far

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2022, 15:52

I think this may have been a sudden change from double buffering to low-latency triple buffering. The way the sync technology automatically switches when Windows key is pressed. Sometimes the original sync technology wasn't the Right Tool For The Right Job...

Sync technologies are complex, and can go far beyond just VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, VRR, etc. And buffer layers (double buffer, triple buffer, max queue depth, etc). There's complex algorithms in drivers and in third parties such as Fast Sync, Enhanced Sync, RTSS Scanline Sync, Special-K Latent Sync.

And the Windows key often switches from FSE to DWM, and sometimes the sync technology currently configured for DWM is (occasionally) superior to the sync technology during FSE. Usually it is worse, but sometimes it's better.

Even VSYNC OFF ends up having unanticipated side effects.

Yo chief, i never heard about what you are talking about with the buffering(FSE/DWM etc). Do you mean frame buffering by GPU? Do you have a write up about this or some in depth links. I need to deep dive into this.
And just so you know this is NOT some placebo shit i am talking about, here from Yesterday evening https://imgur.com/a/XtWKxaM
38Kills in regulation, i never even came close to this because it was impossible because of this desync.

More and more it’s pointing to dwm..

I recently talked about how using ctrl + mouse wheel scroll to change icon size changes how the mouse moves.
This was wrong and right. It isn’t a permanent change as previously thought, it is a brief moment when after changing the icon sizes, and I mean a second or 2 tops, where the mouse moves normally.
So it’s almost like whatever is causing this is quickly put on pause while it updates the new desktop state. Or even every update is simply refreshing the process, but because the process is already unstable, on every refresh there's a different result.

Whatever it is, I’m getting pretty fucking tired of it.

Vocaleyes wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 04:20

More and more it’s pointing to dwm..

I recently talked about how using ctrl + mouse wheel scroll to change icon size changes how the mouse moves.
This was wrong and right. It isn’t a permanent change as previously thought, it is a brief moment when after changing the icon sizes, and I mean a second or 2 tops, where the mouse moves normally.
So it’s almost like whatever is causing this is quickly put on pause while it updates the new desktop state.

Whatever it is, I’m getting pretty fucking tired of it.

Yeah but why is it affecting only some of us? I know a friend who loves watching Youtube and playing games at the same time, which means he alt tabs often. I talked to him the other day and he says mouse never changes and it stays the same, he even tested it for me several times. Thing is, he lives in a different city far from me, so I can't go to him and test it on my own.

All I can say is that alt tab issue we have is just a half of the problem. As I already repeated here several times, I personally get this heavy mouse feeling anywhere, like when just using Windows or even when navigating in BIOS, so for me this is something deeper than just a Windows issue.

TheKelz wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 04:50

Vocaleyes wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 04:20

More and more it’s pointing to dwm..

I recently talked about how using ctrl + mouse wheel scroll to change icon size changes how the mouse moves.
This was wrong and right. It isn’t a permanent change as previously thought, it is a brief moment when after changing the icon sizes, and I mean a second or 2 tops, where the mouse moves normally.
So it’s almost like whatever is causing this is quickly put on pause while it updates the new desktop state.

Whatever it is, I’m getting pretty fucking tired of it.

Yeah but why is it affecting only some of us?

I wish we knew..

assombrosso wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 08:51

It’s electric induced issue, you can’t dwm yourself out of it im afraid to say

Fact Check: Unquestionably definitely FALSE for this thread

It's not an electricity-related issue.

It's consistently been traced to DWM behavior differences between FSE and non-FSE, because Windows key is a forced exit from FSE (Full Screen Exclusive), since FSE is 100% unable to display the Windows menu. So Windows has NO choice but to exit FSE.

(Your post was deleted from this thread as it was simultaneously offtopic and also false).

It's already confirmed science that on some systems. Confirmed, Confirmitty, Confirmed McConfirmface...

The sync technologies for DWM and non-DWM is dramatically different in latencies. It has happened to me, and I've definitively traced it to DWM. Sometimes it's because of different global settings / full screen settings versus per-app settings, in things like NVIDIA Control Panel or NVInspector.

Sometimes it's also caused by multimonitor. Multimonitor is well know to heavily interferes with sync technologies. Other times it's caused by very new or very old Windows installation, that has been configured or that has not been configured (depending on if a good setting was screwed up, or bad settings were fixed). There are yet more reasons where DWM and non-DWM can diverge especially in FSE vs Borderless, and when Optimizations are enabled or not, and even differences between graphics drivers, etc.

espresso wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 02:15

Yo chief, i never heard about what you are talking about with the buffering(FSE/DWM etc). Do you mean frame buffering by GPU? Do you have a write up about this or some in depth links. I need to deep dive into this.
And just so you know this is NOT some placebo shit i am talking about, here from Yesterday evening https://imgur.com/a/XtWKxaM
38Kills in regulation, i never even came close to this because it was impossible because of this desync.

It's been talked about very often. Many results when you google "DWM Triple Buffering". Try it, and boom. I'm not the only one talking about it.

I'm the only one who came up with the term "sync technologies", because I simply describe it as the universe of all driver-GPU-monitor cooperation.

Sync technology cannot be pigeonholed only to the GPU driver, because VRR (G-SYNC) is an example of a co-operative sync technology where the drivers and the monitors co-operate with each other.

It is still currently mostly worthless to google "sync technology", I simply came up with the term as a catchall term for the massive soup. People talk only about specific sync technologies (e.g. "FreeSync" or "G-SYNC" or "VSYNC ON" or "VSYNC OFF") but never came up with a universal term ("sync technologies") as an umbrella term. I did.

I might need to popularize the term "sync technologies" with an article, yes.

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 19:10

espresso wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2022, 02:15

Yo chief, i never heard about what you are talking about with the buffering(FSE/DWM etc). Do you mean frame buffering by GPU? Do you have a write up about this or some in depth links. I need to deep dive into this.
And just so you know this is NOT some placebo shit i am talking about, here from Yesterday evening https://imgur.com/a/XtWKxaM
38Kills in regulation, i never even came close to this because it was impossible because of this desync.

It's been talked about very often. Many results when you google "DWM Triple Buffering". Try it, and boom. I'm not the only one talking about it.

I'm the only one who came up with the term "sync technologies", because I simply describe it as the universe of all driver-GPU-monitor cooperation.

Sync technology cannot be pigeonholed only to the GPU driver, because VRR (G-SYNC) is an example of a co-operative sync technology where the drivers and the monitors co-operate with each other.

It is still currently mostly worthless to google "sync technology", I simply came up with the term as a catchall term for the massive soup. People talk only about specific sync technologies (e.g. "FreeSync" or "G-SYNC" or "VSYNC ON" or "VSYNC OFF") but never came up with a universal term ("sync technologies") as an umbrella term. I did.

I might need to popularize the term "sync technologies" with an article, yes.

Chief, are you aware if consoles use a form of DWM/ triple buffering as standard, albeit named something else?

I have been trying to fix this for like a year. I have tried changing every little setting from bios to registry literally everything you can possibly think off. Even tried dismantling all of windows 11. Nothing works. The only thing that works is alt + tab out of a game and clicking back on the game and its day and night in responsiveness. Its literally insane but only lasts 15 seconds. I'm thinking its the in game optimization that kicks in after to sync everything. But I hope its not that and this can possibly be fixed because the difference is actually insanity to where I do not want to play any games anymore. Some genius please come to a rescue.